Did I hear Josh Johnson's agent correctly?

[Deadpool]

What exactly is your definition of trolling?

 

Disagreeing with his utter brilliance, of course!

[Caper]

You do realize that pitcher win/loss is pretty much entirely contingent upon run support and luck, right? It literally does not make a difference whether you pick the ones with the most wins or the most losses

 

Wrong. Yes it's a bad gauge. But what you are saying is incorrect. Just because a very good pitcher can lose a pile of games, doesn't mean, it's just as likely to find great pitchers at the bottom of the win column then at the top.

[Laika]

I'm not really sure if bringing back Josh Johnson would be the best appropriation of 14 million dollars.

 

Actually, I am sure. It's not a good use. If he's going to accept the QO, then don't offer it.

 

And yeah, I'm well aware of what his xFIP is.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

Wrong. Yes it's a bad gauge. But what you are saying is incorrect. Just because a very good pitcher can lose a pile of games, doesn't mean, it's just as likely to find great pitchers at the bottom of the win column then at the top.

 

Homer Bailey, Lincecum and Strasburg have 5 wins, Chris Sale, Kris Medlen, and Matt Cain have 6. All except for Cain have losing records, and Cain is only .500. I guess that means they're not great pitchers by your logic.

 

I'd say it goes to show that it's not too difficult to find great pitchers near the bottom of the win column. That's a great group of pitchers. I would easily take a rotation of Bailey/Strasburg/Sale/Medlen/Cain over a Bumgarner/Colon/de la Rosa/Leake/Guthrie rotation any day of the week.

[DuckDuckGose]

I'm not really sure if bringing back Josh Johnson would be the best appropriation of 14 million dollars.

 

Actually, I am sure. It's not a good use. If he's going to accept the QO, then don't offer it.

 

And yeah, I'm well aware of what his xFIP is.

 

Really depends how much money the Jays have to work with this offseason. If there is enough for JJ + McCann I'm all for resigning JJ on a QO. If there is ~$14M total to spend this off-season it could be spent wiser than going all-in on JJ.

[Deadpool]

I'm not really sure if bringing back Josh Johnson would be the best appropriation of 14 million dollars.

 

Actually, I am sure. It's not a good use. If he's going to accept the QO, then don't offer it.

 

And yeah, I'm well aware of what his xFIP is.

 

Are you going to find a better use of that $14M? If so, then by all means do it, but I'm not convinced that there's another asset (pitcher or otherwise) that we could get at that price that would be as good as Johnson could be. Right now, our 2014 rotation is 3 bottom of the rotation starters and hope.

[z3r0s]

Really depends how much money the Jays have to work with this offseason. If there is enough for JJ + McCann I'm all for resigning JJ on a QO. If there is ~$14M total to spend this off-season it could be spent wiser than going all-in on JJ.

 

We could REALLY use Brian McCann right now. I honestly think that would be akin to upgrading the pitching staff.

[Caper]

Homer Bailey, Lincecum and Strasburg have 5 wins, Chris Sale, Kris Medlen, and Matt Cain have 6. All except for Cain have losing records, and Cain is only .500. I guess that means they're not great pitchers by your logic.

 

No that's not what I said at all.

 

 

You said.

It literally does not make a difference whether you pick the ones with the most wins or the most losses

 

Which is absolutely wrong. History shows you are wrong. Every year the top 5 or 10 winning pitchers are better as a group then the bottom 5 or 10 most losing pitchers. the fact that an absolute great pitcher can conceivably go 0-30 with an 0.5 era doesn't change that. The fact a pitcher can win a cy young while racking up a tonne of loses doesn't change that..... the fact that pitcher wins is a terrible tool for pitcher evaluation doesn't change that. You are simply wrong.

[Caper]

Are you going to find a better use of that $14M? If so, then by all means do it, but I'm not convinced that there's another asset (pitcher or otherwise) that we could get at that price that would be as good as Johnson could be. Right now, our 2014 rotation is 3 bottom of the rotation starters and hope.

 

Give me some examples of who you would sign.

[DuckDuckGose]

We could REALLY use Brian McCann right now. I honestly think that would be akin to upgrading the pitching staff.

 

C has to be the easiest and largest upgrade to make this off-season. JPA is terrible, his playing time is beyond comprehension. Russel Martin should be a Blue Jay.

[Deadpool]

Give me some examples of who you would sign.

 

That was my point... I don't think there's a guy we could get for $14M that would be an upgrade over Johnson. Anyone who would be an upgrade would cost significantly more.

[Laika]

That was my point... I don't think there's a guy we could get for $14M that would be an upgrade over Johnson. Anyone who would be an upgrade would cost significantly more.

 

How about two guys for 7 million? Preferably ones that aren't made of glass.

 

I'm not going to make hypothetical signings. There is a list of all free agents on mlbtr. There are plenty of names.

[Laika]

The scenario: You have fourteen million dollars. Improve the team.

 

The solution: I don't know what it is, but I know that it's definitely NOT "give it all to Josh Johnson".

[G-Snarls]

The scenario: You have fourteen million dollars. Improve the team.

 

The solution: I don't know what it is, but I know that it's definitely NOT "give it all to Josh Johnson".

 

If you could be sure that guys like Morrow, Stroman and Hutch were good to go for the starting rotation next year you could put that 14M to a 1 year deal on a veteran position player (Yankees way, a la Ichiro, Ibanez, Youkilis, etc) but I don't think that's what I'd want to do with it.

[GNick]

No team will offer him north of 14 million after this season and his history of arm troubles. Most I see is a 1 year deal at 5 million

[G-Snarls]

Honest questions for this off season:

 

How much for a quality free agent catcher?

 

How much for Chase Utley?

 

Do you want to keep Johnson for another year at 14M, or upgrade 2B or catcher with a veteran and hope the younger arms rebound? (Romero, Hutch, Morrow, Stroman)

 

Ideally you have the money to do both, and then trade a starter mid season next year if you have too many

[G-Snarls]

No team will offer him north of 14 million after this season and his history of arm troubles. Most I see is a 1 year deal at 5 million

 

Silly talk

 

Even after this year someone would take a flyer on him on a 2-3 year deal for 10M+ per year

[z3r0s]

No team will offer him north of 14 million after this season and his history of arm troubles. Most I see is a 1 year deal at 5 million

 

Ben Sheets, Rich Harden, etc say hello

[DuckDuckGose]

Honest questions for this off season:

 

How much for a quality free agent catcher?

 

How much for Chase Utley?

 

Do you want to keep Johnson for another year at 14M, or upgrade 2B or catcher with a veteran and hope the younger arms rebound? (Romero, Hutch, Morrow, Stroman)

 

Ideally you have the money to do both, and then trade a starter mid season next year if you have too many

 

Russel Martin got a $7M AAV contract, that's around what I expect the Jays to spend this off-season. McCann should get way more than that, Ruiz probably a couple M more.

[Laika]

We're running into a problem that's been looming since the offseason: AA will now be tasked with adding more wins than he can reasonably be expected to add given the resources available to him.

 

Is Josh Johnson a reasonable signing at 1/14? Yes. Will it improve the team enough? No. Can we expect this management group to do better with that money? Probably not.

 

AA was at his best when he was trying to be efficient. That's when we saw stuff like the Morrow, Escobar, Rasmus, and Lawrie acquisitions. Even smaller stuff like getting Davis, Villa, and Delabar.

Put him at the max of his budget and he's probably a better GM.

 

Give him money and he's shown that he has absolutely no idea how to effectively use it.

[DuckDuckGose]

AA was at his best when he was trying to be efficient. That's when we saw stuff like the Morrow, Escobar, Rasmus, and Lawrie acquisitions. Even smaller stuff like getting Davis, Villa, and Delabar.

Put him at the max of his budget and he's probably a better GM.

 

Give him money and he's shown that he has absolutely no idea how to effectively use it.

 

Good point. Perhaps being forced to creatively add talent will bring out the best of AA, like it did early in his tenure.

[G-Snarls]

Russel Martin got a $7M AAV contract, that's around what I expect the Jays to spend this off-season. McCann should get way more than that, Ruiz probably a couple M more.

 

I like that value. And the addition by subtraction of Arencibia.

[DuckDuckGose]

I like that value. And the addition by subtraction of Arencibia.

 

I have a really hard time believing the Braves will let McCann walk. If so that's my target, pay the man. Ruiz is the value guy that should be on the market I'd be targeting early.

[G-Snarls]

I have a really hard time believing the Braves will let McCann walk. If so that's my target, pay the man. Ruiz is the value guy that should be on the market I'd be targeting early.

 

Yep, and I hope AA makes early moves again, like in November

 

Or a post waiver deadline trade in September with another non-contender

[Deadpool]

No team will offer him north of 14 million after this season and his history of arm troubles. Most I see is a 1 year deal at 5 million

 

This is wrong.

 

HAHA, some of you morons think signing Josh Johnson for 14 million is a good deal.

 

Dude is worth 5 million (like someone else mentioned), at the most.

 

This is wrong and obnoxious.

[jaysblue]

I have a really hard time believing the Braves will let McCann walk. If so that's my target, pay the man. Ruiz is the value guy that should be on the market I'd be targeting early.

 

I bet McCann goes to the Yankees since they need a catcher badly.

[Deadpool]

I bet McCann goes to the Yankees since they need a catcher badly.

 

I bet [insert top free agent here] goes to the Yankees since they need a [position] badly. Also, they have infinite money.

 

fify

[TheHurl]

No team will offer him north of 14 million after this season and his history of arm troubles. Most I see is a 1 year deal at 5 million

 

At the start of the season JJ's agent was thinking $80M...all JJ would have to do is pitch well the second half of the season and he'll be in a 3 year contract range.

[Captain Adama]

Look at Felix Hernandez's Cy Young season, now I don't have the internet to look at his stats but his record was like 13-12, you need to tell me you wouldn't pick that guy over the likes of Ivan Nova?

 

Well done orgfiller, reminds me of the days when I was laughing at Yankee fans for implying that Nova was better than Felix.

[DuckDuckGose]

Yep, and I hope AA makes early moves again, like in November

 

Or a post waiver deadline trade in September with another non-contender

 

+1 Signings early, long thought-out, well planned maneuvers over the rest of the off-season.