What's wrong with Kevin Pillar?

[GeorgiaPeach]

The reality is you just don't know. You're basing talent level by an age-rating system that is usually right but not always. Hell, if it were up to you, Evan Gattis should just quit and go back to working at Pizza Hut. Do you think I actually believe Pillar with be some elite player? No, not even close. Though I would like to watch him play over the sloth that is currently roaming LF... particularly in a season that means s*** all.

 

Yep, you're right, I don't know.

 

And you're also correct that I'm basing it on the ARL system that is usually right, but not always. But I'd prefer to be safe and guess probably right, than sit on my couch hoping and praying that a prospect I'm not really all that enamoured with and don't follow is raking because he's on the Jays farm. I follow every team and doing that for all prospects would be a waste of time.

 

As for Gattis. He's kinda in the same boat for me where a highly regarded prospect flames out early and gets released or doesn't sign, maybe gets a second chance to start out new with a new organization at the bottom and slowly work and be molded back into what it was that had him highly regarded in the first place. But for the most part, I would've ignored a kid like Gattis. Its kinda like how I'd prefer the Jays to look to dealing Smoral as soon as they can. I'm not a fan of tall pitchers who everyone drools over for the possibility they turn into a Randy Johnson or JR Richard.

 

As for preferring Pillar over Melky I do as well. Gose over Rasmus, Stroman over Redmond, youth over old & expensive all day. But Paul Beeston's sheep need name players, otherwise the Rogers Centre is empty.

Edited July 27, 2013 by GeorgiaPeach

[Deadpool]

As for preferring Pillar over Melky I do as well. Gose over Rasmus, Stroman over Redmond, youth over old & expensive all day. But Paul Beeston's sheep need name players, otherwise the Rogers Centre is empty.

 

Gose over Rasmus is just insanity man! COME ON!

 

I mentioned Cooper because he actually was a capable major league level hitter that got criticized for lack of power. I liked him. But last I heard he has very serious health issues. I don't follow minor leagues closely at all these days. I do know Sierra looked good at times on the big team. Kind of like Herchevierra, Gomes, Thames, they all showed glimmers of major league potential, but not enough to cement a regular job at the time.

 

Cooper is actually a surprisingly accurate comp for Pillar. Both are guys who are limited to a position that needs a really good power bat, and neither of them have/had really good power bats, so neither are viable regular major leaguers.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Gose over Rasmus has more to do with Colby getting a raise and being pretty close to his age pinnacle. As well as Gose being able to hold his own in CF defensively and being plopped at the bottom of the lineup where there's no pressure and he can get a regular run.

 

Then the money saved off Colby could be used to address other areas of need.

[Angrioter]

Gose over Rasmus is just insanity man! COME ON!

 

 

 

Cooper is actually a surprisingly accurate comp for Pillar. Both are guys who are limited to a position that needs a really good power bat, and neither of them have/had really good power bats, so neither are viable regular major leaguers.

 

Rasmus advanced 5 steps this season, Gose retreated 5 steps.

 

The problem here is money. Gose is a good option for only 500K.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Cooper is actually a surprisingly accurate comp for Pillar. Both are guys who are limited to a position that needs a really good power bat, and neither of them have/had really good power bats, so neither are viable regular major leaguers.

 

I'm not a fan of the, "you need a power bat at these positions" thought process. The plan should be to get the best players you can at every position, no matter what their skill set is.

[Deadpool]

I'm not a fan of the, "you need a power bat at these positions" thought process. The plan should be to get the best players you can at every position, no matter what their skill set is.

 

I just think that the easiest positions should be the ones that you can sacrifice some D to gain a lot of O. 1B and LF are the easiest positions to field, therefore a premium defender isn't required to fill those positions.

[Caper]

I just think that the easiest positions should be the ones that you can sacrifice some D to gain a lot of O. 1B and LF are the easiest positions to field, therefore a premium defender isn't required to fill those positions.

 

I think people underrate how important 1st base defense is.

[Chappy]

Rasmus advanced 5 steps this season, Gose retreated 5 steps.

 

The problem here is money. Gose is a good option for only 500K.

 

Sure Gose is decent for 500K if we didn't have Rasmus, but Rasmus is great value/$$ and he is still not expensive and likely won't be until 2015 (if he is extended). I would look to move Gose into the 4th OF spot next season over Davis. It will save the team $$ compared to what Davis will be making and gives us a very good defender that will have tremendous value late in games. If Gose does well then eventually he could transition into a starting role, but right now it doesn't appear as though he can be a regular on a team that intends to contend.

[Angrioter]

Sure Gose is decent for 500K if we didn't have Rasmus, but Rasmus is great value/$$ and he is still not expensive and likely won't be until 2015 (if he is extended). I would look to move Gose into the 4th OF spot next season over Davis. It will save the team $$ compared to what Davis will be making and gives us a very good defender that will have tremendous value late in games. If Gose does well then eventually he could transition into a starting role, but right now it doesn't appear as though he can be a regular on a team that intends to contend.

 

The Kid can't hit (Gose); Gose need about 500-600 PA per season to improve.

[John_Havok]

Yep, you're right, I don't know.

 

And you're also correct that I'm basing it on the ARL system that is usually right, but not always. But I'd prefer to be safe and guess probably right, than sit on my couch hoping and praying that a prospect I'm not really all that enamoured with and don't follow is raking because he's on the Jays farm. I follow every team and doing that for all prospects would be a waste of time.

 

As for Gattis. He's kinda in the same boat for me where a highly regarded prospect flames out early and gets released or doesn't sign, maybe gets a second chance to start out new with a new organization at the bottom and slowly work and be molded back into what it was that had him highly regarded in the first place. But for the most part, I would've ignored a kid like Gattis. Its kinda like how I'd prefer the Jays to look to dealing Smoral as soon as they can. I'm not a fan of tall pitchers who everyone drools over for the possibility they turn into a Randy Johnson or JR Richard.

 

As for preferring Pillar over Melky I do as well. Gose over Rasmus, Stroman over Redmond, youth over old & expensive all day. But Paul Beeston's sheep need name players, otherwise the Rogers Centre is empty.

 

I agree with pretty much everything you said there except ... Gose over Rasmus... Rasmus is providing a fantastic amount of surplus value for his 4.75 million dollar contract this year, likely far more than Gose would be, and Redmond is making league minimum and only on the team due to injury. Starting Stroman's clock makes no sense from a fiscal POV in a year where they aren't competing.

 

If you mean for 2014, then there's a bit more to the convo.

[Arkadium]

Gose over Rasmus was comical last year, this year it's just stupid.

[Captain Adama]

Gose over Rasmus was comical last year, this year it's just stupid.

 

It wasn't comical last year; Gose wasn't sucking the bed last year while Rasmus was showing he couldn't stay consistent offensively.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I agree with pretty much everything you said there except ... Gose over Rasmus... Rasmus is providing a fantastic amount of surplus value for his 4.75 million dollar contract this year, likely far more than Gose would be, and Redmond is making league minimum and only on the team due to injury. Starting Stroman's clock makes no sense from a fiscal POV in a year where they aren't competing.

 

If you mean for 2014, then there's a bit more to the convo.

 

I'm not really a fan of pushing it to the last possible minute to trade a guy. So when Rasmus gets more expensive next year (still good value) the value won't clearly be the same. And with him being a streaky hitter who's to say he doesn't go into the shitter next year?

 

The point about Stroman is fair. But he's getting some play from prospect sources as one of the most likely prospects to get promoted after the deadline (July 31)....as a reliever. If you don't want his clock started that's cool, but if the Jays do start his clock in a nothing year, as a RP it would be foolish.

[Orgfiller]

Ok dude. He's fast, but I don't think he's as fast as people make him out to be. Some guys look a lot faster then they are and some look at a lot slower then they are (i.e. Alex Rios).

 

Except he is as fast as people make him out to be, and by people, we also mean scouts, and it's their job to properly evaluate how fast a player is.

[Arkadium]

Except he was as fast as people make him out to be

 

FTFY

 

You don't go 12 for 24 in SB when you're fast, I don't care how unlucky you are. Clearly he's not as fast as he used to be.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

That would explain why you think we still have a top minor league system

 

Ok, time to respond to your trolling again. First of all your post adds NOTHING to the discussion. Second, instead of claiming

to know what I think, you should be stating what YOU think. Third, you are claiming I think something that I don't agree with at all.

Fourth, I already input on Thames and Cooper which are useful insights on this topic.

 

But you know what, let's cut to the chase. You've been doing this crap for days now. Get lost.

Edited July 27, 2013 by Cooler Heads Prevail

[John_Havok]

I'm not really a fan of pushing it to the last possible minute to trade a guy. So when Rasmus gets more expensive next year (still good value) the value won't clearly be the same. And with him being a streaky hitter who's to say he doesn't go into the shitter next year?

 

The point about Stroman is fair. But he's getting some play from prospect sources as one of the most likely prospects to get promoted after the deadline (July 31)....as a reliever. If you don't want his clock started that's cool, but if the Jays do start his clock in a nothing year, as a RP it would be foolish.

 

Yeah I agree, I want Stroman as a starter until he fails, and so far he hasn't. I get that some other clubs bring up kids in the pen first to show them what they're in for, and i think there is merit to that in the event that the kid would have to be added to the roster in the offseason anyways in order to avoid the rule 5 draft, or if he's really dominating the minors and your team has an injury to a few pen arms and you're in a playoff race. Other than that, it doesn't really make sense.

[Orgfiller]

I agree with pretty much everything you said there except ... Gose over Rasmus... Rasmus is providing a fantastic amount of surplus value for his 4.75 million dollar contract this year, likely far more than Gose would be, and Redmond is making league minimum and only on the team due to injury. Starting Stroman's clock makes no sense from a fiscal POV in a year where they aren't competing.

 

If you mean for 2014, then there's a bit more to the convo.

 

I agree with this, people really underrate how good and valuable a player Rasmus is when he plays well, he tends to be very streaky but you take it when most of the time I would say he plays at a very good level. Yes Gose is young and controllable but it's no use switching him for Rasmus when Gose hasn't been proving that he can dominate AAA after repeating it (for whatever reason). Redmond is awful and shouldn't even be here if it weren't for injuries and lack of depth.

[Arkadium]

I agree with this, people really underrate how good and valuable a player Rasmus is when he plays well, he tends to be very streaky but you take it when most of the time I would say he plays at a very good level. Yes Gose is young and controllable but it's no use switching him for Rasmus when Gose hasn't been proving that he can dominate AAA after repeating it (for whatever reason). Redmond is awful and shouldn't even be here if it weren't for injuries and lack of depth.

 

And I, to you, in addition, feel the same feelings that you are as well.

[Orgfiller]

FTFY

 

You don't go 12 for 24 in SB when you're fast, I don't care how unlucky you are. Clearly he's not as fast as he used to be.

 

A guy his age doesn't just suddenly lose speed from one year to the other. Stealing bases isn't all about speed, it has a lot more to do with reading the pitcher's delivery, and getting good jumps. We can pretty much assume his head isn't fully in the game as the stats show. His defense hasn't seemed to take a hit according to some others that have seen him, and his speed/arm make up a lot of it.

[Arkadium]

A guy his age doesn't just suddenly lose speed from one year to the other. Stealing bases isn't all about speed, it has a lot more to do with reading the pitcher's delivery, and getting good jumps. We can pretty much assume his head isn't fully in the game as the stats show. His defense hasn't seemed to take a hit according to some others that have seen him, and his speed/arm make up a lot of it.

 

Yeah, you're right of course. It just seems like the mental side of his game has all-but completely checked out; especially considering some of the reports I heard of him not trying at times.

[John_Havok]

One way to work them both in would be to move Melky, have Gose in CF and Rasmus in LF, the 8 million in savings would easily make up for the arb raise for Colby, but I suspect that Colby met be in line for a 3ish year deal with an option tacked on in true AA style.

 

I think something like 7 million for 2014 and 2 years at 9 million, plus a 10 million option. That's about the same kind of deal Edwin got and would be a pretty decent deal for the Jays. It's certainly less than what he would get on the open market if he had another good year in 2014, but he doesn't have a lot of leverage since he's coming off some pretty bad years and now just 1 decent one.

[Orgfiller]

One way to work them both in would be to move Melky, have Gose in CF and Rasmus in LF, the 8 million in savings would easily make up for the arb raise for Colby, but I suspect that Colby met be in line for a 3ish year deal with an option tacked on in true AA style.

 

I think something like 7 million for 2014 and 2 years at 9 million, plus a 10 million option. That's about the same kind of deal Edwin got and would be a pretty decent deal for the Jays. It's certainly less than what he would get on the open market if he had another good year in 2014, but he doesn't have a lot of leverage since he's coming off some pretty bad years and now just 1 decent one.

 

I too hope he gets extended and a deal like that would be welcomed by many people on here I'm sure. It's true what you say, he hasn't had good enough years before this one with the Jays to justify him getting a bigger deal than that. Plus, hopefully AA pulls the "comfortable in Toronto (reverse St. Louis)" card to get him to stay at a decent price, much like the Escobar deal. At this point Melky really isn't looking like he was for the past few years be it for whatever reason (no roids, playing injured, whatever), so I wouldn't mind a Rasmus LF-Gose CF OF, range for days, and it would help getting the much better arm (and defender for that matter) in CF.

[ElNik2013]

One way to work them both in would be to move Melky, have Gose in CF and Rasmus in LF, the 8 million in savings would easily make up for the arb raise for Colby, but I suspect that Colby met be in line for a 3ish year deal with an option tacked on in true AA style.

 

I think something like 7 million for 2014 and 2 years at 9 million, plus a 10 million option. That's about the same kind of deal Edwin got and would be a pretty decent deal for the Jays. It's certainly less than what he would get on the open market if he had another good year in 2014, but he doesn't have a lot of leverage since he's coming off some pretty bad years and now just 1 decent one.

 

 

I've been throwing around something along the same idea. I suggested a Gose/Pillar platoon with Rasmus playing LF when Gose plays and CF when Pillar plays. The money saved on Cabrera would help the payroll and give them a bit of flexibility in going after a 2B/C. Big caveat is getting rid of Cabrera and I Rasmus may not like the idea of moving between LF and CF.

[Arkadium]

Gose may actually provide more value than Melky Cabrera right now... even if he's batting .200. But Pillar is clearly the better option.

[Arkadium]

Helllllllllloooooooooooooooooooooooooooo?

[Arkadium]

Pillar goes 3 for 5 today... 2x2B, 1x3B, 4 RIBBIES

 

FREE PILLAR

 

Yes I'm being partially sarcastic.

[AdamGreenwood]

At this point, it makes sense to wait until September.

[TheHurl]

While I don't think it's a prudent move to add anyone who doesn't need to be added, Moises Sierra has zero role on this team and is out of options next year. Dumping him and adding Pillar wouldn't be the worst move AA has done. I do believe that it's Pillar or Stroman though adding both seems like a mess in an already messy 40, especially since there are players that I think many of us would dump which this F.O. are going to keep.

[KingKat]

While I don't think it's a prudent move to add anyone who doesn't need to be added, Moises Sierra has zero role on this team and is out of options next year. Dumping him and adding Pillar wouldn't be the worst move AA has done. I do believe that it's Pillar or Stroman though adding both seems like a mess in an already messy 40, especially since there are players that I think many of us would dump which this F.O. are going to keep.

 

I'm really looking forward to seeing Sierra do a Sergio Santos for another organization.