What Went Wrong with the Jays? -Grantland

[fatcowxlive]

I would say there was a very very small number of people that didn't like the trade.

 

I agree. The amount of people that were pro-trade was staggering

[fatcowxlive]

What went wrong

 

Ugh

 

What killed the team? The inability to attract FA this year.

[Slot Machine]

I'm kinda curious what the won/loss records are for every team over this span. I would venture that the number of teams above .500 could be counted on one hand.

[Chappy]

Can't believe we traded two A prospects for Dickey. What a f***ing nightmare. Syndergaard is going to be a monster.

 

More likely he won't be. Not defending the trade because I didn't like it either, but lets be realistic, most top prospects never live up to expectations.

[Chappy]

What's the attrition rate of top-5 pitching prospects? Because if he keeps doing what he's doing he'll be at that level by season's end.

 

He very well could be, but only time will tell. It was a terrible trade no doubting that. I just hate when people take it as a certainty that he will be a star.

[Caper]

What killed the team? The inability to attract FA this year.

 

What free agents are you talking about?

[Orgfiller]

More likely he won't be. Not defending the trade because I didn't like it either, but lets be realistic, most top prospects never live up to expectations.

 

I have nothing against the guy, but am I the only that secretly wishes he blows out his arm and d'Arnaud can't ever play a game at catcher anymore? I just need some comfort, because if they both become stars I don't know how we'll be able to cope with it. Again, nothing against either guy, loved them while they were here and the farm still looked promising. On the bright (sort of) side, if they do become stars then it exposes the horrible deal to even casuals of the colossal failure of that trade.

[Chappy]

What free agents are you talking about?

 

It's funny how people use that excuse.

[Chappy]

I have nothing against the guy, but I'm I the only that secretly wishes he blows out his arm and d'Arnaud can't ever play a game at catcher anymore? I just need some comfort, because if they both become stars I don't know how we'll be able to cope with it. Again, nothing against either guy, loved them while they were here and the farm still looked promising. On the bright (sort of) side, if they do become stars then it exposes the horrible deal to even casuals of the colossal failure of that trade.

 

I wouldn't wish that on anyone. The trade should be based on the time it was made, period. AA traded one of the top prospects in the game and a fast rising prospect as the main pieces for a 38 year old SP. That is just not smart management of assets. If this team were contending for the division at the deadline and then he made that deal, I would be much more accepting of it, but at the time Dickey wasn't needed, we had 5 possible options for the rotation and we really needed some depth which he didn't really address.

 

AA just go caught up in the moment and made a colossal mistake.

[Orgfiller]

I'm not with you. I have Syndergaard in a very team dynasty league lol.

 

Lol yeah in that scenario I see that you have to pump him up to future buyers, or just for the sheer feeling of telling everyone to suck it.

[Chappy]

Yeah, its obviously far from certain, but dude is absolutely thrashing AA as a 20-year old. He's approaching elite prospect territory.

 

Yeah I wish the deal never happened, but it did. This team needs to start moving guys now.

[Orgfiller]

I wouldn't wish that on anyone. The trade should be based on the time it was made, period. AA traded one of the top prospects in the game and a fast rising prospect as the main pieces for a 38 year old SP. That is just not smart management of assets. If this team were contending for the division at the deadline and then he made that deal, I would be much more accepting of it, but at the time Dickey wasn't needed, we had 5 possible options for the rotation and we really needed some depth which he didn't really address.

 

AA just go caught up in the moment and made a colossal mistake.

 

I agree, I was being a bit extreme there, I just hope he doesn't become the next Verlander so the trade doesn't always come back to remind us of what a bad deal it was.

[ElNik2013]

That's BS....not very many people liked it at all. It was more like what's done is done.....lets win a Championship!

 

 

I agree. Things have gone sour and a lot of people are acting as if they predicted this team would be this bad.

[theblujay]

And this story is now the front story on ESPN. Not exactly the way I hoped we would make it to the front of ESPN by the all-star break.

[theblujay]

Jays are getting way more attention from ESPN than they would if they were winning lol.

 

So true, I think I've seen 3 or 4 articles about what's gone wrong with the Jays so far this year.

[TheEndIsNigh]

Jays are getting way more attention from ESPN than they would if they were winning lol.

 

Typical ESPN, the trash of the sports world.

[Arkadium]

Never trade for a guy coming off a CY Young year. The time to trade for Dickey was 2011.

 

So true - buy low, sell high

[GNick]

Marlins trade was over rated. Miami underachieved last year with same players we traded for, so how AA think it'd be different here?

[TheHurl]

I do think that a lot of people are mis-remembering their opinions of the Dickey trade. While there weren't that many that didn't think it was possibly an overpay, most wanted Dickey on the team.

[Caper]

A more clever title would have been. "What went Wong with the Bluejays?"

[Chappy]

I do think that a lot of people are mis-remembering their opinions of the Dickey trade. While there weren't that many that didn't think it was possibly an overpay, most wanted Dickey on the team.

 

I remember most were excited to see what he could do myself included. That being said, I can't recall anyone who didn't think it was an overpay. The vast majority didn't approve of the deal.

[Caper]

I remember most were excited to see what he could do myself included. That being said, I can't recall anyone who didn't think it was an overpay. The vast majority didn't approve of the deal.

 

I think the vast majority thought it was an overpay as well. I listened to what most experts had to say... they said the same thing.... but most everyone that analyzed didn't hammer it... they knew the thinking behind it. I think it may have been Keith Law... but someone respected gave an opinion on why they ripped Kansas for the James Shields deal but not TO for the Dickey deal.

[Chappy]

I think the vast majority thought it was an overpay as well. I listened to what most experts had to say... they said the same thing.... but most everyone that analyzed didn't hammer it... they knew the thinking behind it. I think it may have been Keith Law... but someone respected gave an opinion on why they ripped Kansas for the James Shields deal but not TO for the Dickey deal.

 

It was a costly trade, but at the time it was also a deal that could easily be justified. It's easy to sit back now and say AA messed up, but most people didn't think Dickey would be this bad.

 

AA has done a lot of things wrong, but at the same time I think he has done more right. He might not be the GM we all thought he was a couple years ago, but he is far from terrible.

[digiblader]

Dickey could've ended up in a market like Texas--and the complaints would've been the same(Texas was a candidate for him as well.)

[ElNik2013]

It was a costly trade, but at the time it was also a deal that could easily be justified. It's easy to sit back now and say AA messed up, but most people didn't think Dickey would be this bad.

 

AA has done a lot of things wrong, but at the same time I think he has done more right. He might not be the GM we all thought he was a couple years ago, but he is far from terrible.

 

 

Let's also not forget that even those who thought it was an overpay picked this team to contend so obviously they thought it was a good team coming into the season, me included. I suspect the mandate from Beeston and Rogers changed after the disastrous 2nd half in 2012 and he felt he couldn't strike out in FA, but I have no way of proving this other than to look back at how reluctant he had been in trading away his prospects in the previous years. To see him abruptly change course makes me think the mandate was changed. Anyway, maybe they'll have a 15-gamer in the 2nd half and make it all worthwhile!

[Chappy]

Let's also not forget that even those who thought it was an overpay picked this team to contend so obviously they thought it was a good team coming into the season, me included. I suspect the mandate from Beeston and Rogers changed after the disastrous 2nd half in 2012 and he felt he couldn't strike out in FA, but I have no way of proving this other than to look back at how reluctant he had been in trading away his prospects in the previous years. To see him abruptly change course makes me think the mandate was changed. Anyway, maybe they'll have a 15-gamer in the 2nd half and make it all worthwhile!

 

At the end of the day AA has done his job, ticket sales are up and so is ratings. I expect him to keep pushing forward and I wouldn't be surprised to see two more big names added to this team sometime between now and next spring.

 

Even with this horrid season in terms of the expectations, I can really see attendance going up again next season if more is added to this team.

[Caper]

It was a costly trade, but at the time it was also a deal that could easily be justified. It's easy to sit back now and say AA messed up, but most people didn't think Dickey would be this bad.

 

AA has done a lot of things wrong, but at the same time I think he has done more right. He might not be the GM we all thought he was a couple years ago, but he is far from terrible.

 

 

I think he is a very good GM. He brought us to the table with pocket aces and got busted.... it happens. I also think he has the ability to learn from his mistakes... though I could be wrong. I don't think you will see him make a Happ like trade this year to try and salvage the season.

[ElNik2013]

At the end of the day AA has done his job, ticket sales are up and so is ratings. I expect him to keep pushing forward and I wouldn't be surprised to see two more big names added to this team sometime between now and next spring.

 

Even with this horrid season in terms of the expectations, I can really see attendance going up again next season if more is added to this team.

 

 

 

It's a business after all and Rogers makes tons of money on the tv side of things. They saw the potential last year for increased attendance and ratings and their eyes got huge, no doubt in my mind. After the bad 2nd half, they felt they had to make a splash or 2 to keep this going and there was no guarantee that they would get their guys in FA.

 

I think AA needs to make an Escobar/Rasmus type deal or 2 to round out the roster. We'll have to wait and see.

[Chappy]

I think he is a very good GM. He brought us to the table with pocket aces and got busted.... it happens. I also think he has the ability to learn from his mistakes... though I could be wrong. I don't think you will see him make a Happ like trade this year to try and salvage the season.

 

It does happen. While this team might be old, we do have some pieces to work with via trade and I am certain AA will have some more money to work with this winter. This team will take another crack at it next year with a few new faces.

[Chappy]

It's a business after all and Rogers makes tons of money on the tv side of things. They saw the potential last year for increased attendance and ratings and their eyes got huge, no doubt in my mind. After the bad 2nd half, they felt they had to make a splash or 2 to keep this going and there was no guarantee that they would get their guys in FA.

 

I think AA needs to make an Escobar/Rasmus type deal or 2 to round out the roster. We'll have to wait and see.

 

Yup, at the end of the day it comes down to profits. If AA can keep generating interest, ticket sales growth and increased ratings, then Rogers probably stays off his back. At some point though, they will probably want a winner for marketing purposes.