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theblujay

By theblujay
in Toronto Blue Jays Talk

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Atothe Vancouver Canadians

Atothe

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
he might have eaten the poutine at Canada day at the park. it didn't look too appetizing.

 

 

People from Quebec are having protest as we speak

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Angrioter MVP

Angrioter

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

How optimistic can Blue Jays fans realistically be about right-hander Jeff Hoffman? What's his realistic outcome, floor and ceiling?

-- Michael D., Toronto

 

Jim Callis

Hoffman had a chance to go No. 1 overall to the Astros in the 2014 First-Year Player Draft and likely wouldn't have gotten past the Cubs at No. 4 had he not injured his elbow in late April and required Tommy John surgery. Teams obviously prefer that their first-round picks don't have elbow reconstruction on their résumés, but with his talent and the track record of Tommy John surgery, there's plenty of cause for optimism.

 

A healthy Hoffman had a mid-90s fastball capable of hitting 98 mph, a big-breaking curveball and a deceptive changeup. He showed the potential for two plus-plus pitches and a third plus offering, combined with a good pitcher's frame and projected solid command.

 

Hoffman has a ceiling of a legitimate No. 1 starter and that hasn't changed. Though Tommy John surgery comes with no guarantees, so many pitchers have regained their stuff afterward that there's no reason to think he won't as well. Barring further injury, he should become at least a mid-rotation starter for the Blue Jays.

 

The only significant change to Hoffman's outlook is his big league ETA. He might have reached Toronto before the end of 2015 if he hadn't been hurt. Now 2017 is a more realistic goal.

TwistedLogic Cooperstown

TwistedLogic

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
How optimistic can Blue Jays fans realistically be about right-hander Jeff Hoffman? What's his realistic outcome, floor and ceiling?

-- Michael D., Toronto

 

Jim Callis

Hoffman had a chance to go No. 1 overall to the Astros in the 2014 First-Year Player Draft and likely wouldn't have gotten past the Cubs at No. 4 had he not injured his elbow in late April and required Tommy John surgery. Teams obviously prefer that their first-round picks don't have elbow reconstruction on their résumés, but with his talent and the track record of Tommy John surgery, there's plenty of cause for optimism.

 

A healthy Hoffman had a mid-90s fastball capable of hitting 98 mph, a big-breaking curveball and a deceptive changeup. He showed the potential for two plus-plus pitches and a third plus offering, combined with a good pitcher's frame and projected solid command.

 

Hoffman has a ceiling of a legitimate No. 1 starter and that hasn't changed. Though Tommy John surgery comes with no guarantees, so many pitchers have regained their stuff afterward that there's no reason to think he won't as well. Barring further injury, he should become at least a mid-rotation starter for the Blue Jays.

 

The only significant change to Hoffman's outlook is his big league ETA. He might have reached Toronto before the end of 2015 if he hadn't been hurt. Now 2017 is a more realistic goal.

 

That was actually my question lol. Thanks for posting this, I didn't know that he'd already done this chat.

 

I don't think I've ever been as optimistic about a Jays draft prospect as I am about Hoffman. I felt really good about Norris, Stroman and Pentecost (though I also felt really good about Anderson and Smoral...) but Hoffman is on a different level.

TwistedLogic Cooperstown

TwistedLogic

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I'd trade Sanchez/Smoral and Nay, for that contract.

 

I don't know, I'd probably do this trade as well, but I don't like the idea of giving up on Smoral so soon. Norris was in a similar situation last year and he eventually turned it around.

 

Smoral was very highly regarded going into the draft. I think they should look at him for at least one more season before deciding what to do with him.

GD MVP

GD

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I don't know, I'd probably do this trade as well, but I don't like the idea of giving up on Smoral so soon. Norris was in a similar situation last year and he eventually turned it around.

 

Smoral was very highly regarded going into the draft. I think they should look at him for at least one more season before deciding what to do with him.

 

Sanchez, one of Smoral/Nay, and a lower level guy would be okay with me, but I'd rather not trade both Smoral and Nay. They could both be extremely valuable.

Spanky99 GOAT

Spanky99

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I don't know, I'd probably do this trade as well, but I don't like the idea of giving up on Smoral so soon. Norris was in a similar situation last year and he eventually turned it around.

 

Smoral was very highly regarded going into the draft. I think they should look at him for at least one more season before deciding what to do with him.

 

Sanchez, one of Smoral/Nay, and a lower level guy would be okay with me, but I'd rather not trade both Smoral and Nay. They could both be extremely valuable.

 

I understand the value/ceiling here fellas, but you have to give to get, for a guy like Hamels, I'm probably light on what they'd be looking for to be honest

GD MVP

GD

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I understand the value/ceiling here fellas, but you have to give to get, for a guy like Hamels, I'm probably light on what they'd be looking for to be honest

 

The contract is a big weight on his value honestly. I've done the math before and his contract is a massive drain.

Spanky99 GOAT

Spanky99

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
The contract is a big weight on his value honestly. I've done the math before and his contract is a massive drain.

 

Don't trade then, simple...:P

Mikeleelop Draft Eligible

Mikeleelop

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
This ^

 

The Jays just aren't in a position to trade away high upside, low cost, players for expensive proven players. The money isn't there nor is there enough in the system to plug the holes you'd create by making this kind of deal.

 

Even trading Hutch straight up for Hamels wouldn't be worth it. You'd be trading for a 2 win upgrade at a cost of about 10M/win. You can probably get Scherzer for a little more than half that. Plus you'd be adding depth at the same time,instead of robbing peter to pay paul.

 

Jays are not signing a fa starter

Spanky99 GOAT

Spanky99

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
The contract is a big weight on his value honestly. I've done the math before and his contract is a massive drain.

 

"Originally Posted by BTS

Sanchez and Pompey should absolutely be on the table for Hamels."

 

 

"Originally Posted by GD

Especially if they'd eat some dough."

 

Waaait a minute, you're okay with Pompey in there, but not what I suggested, you into your folks stash today bro??? Just saw this in another thread...:P

GD MVP

GD

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
"Originally Posted by BTS

Sanchez and Pompey should absolutely be on the table for Hamels."

 

 

"Originally Posted by GD

Especially if they'd eat some dough."

 

Waaait a minute, you're okay with Pompey in there, but not what I suggested, you into your folks stash today bro??? Just saw this in another thread...:P

 

I'm comfortable with Sanchez+the pieces I listed for Hamels, especially if they'd eat some of the contract, but I wouldn't want to keep adding prospects, again cause of the salary. Idk about Pompey. Maybe.

Boxcar All-Star

Boxcar

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I'm comfortable with Sanchez+the pieces I listed for Hamels, especially if they'd eat some of the contract, but I wouldn't want to keep adding prospects, again cause of the salary. Idk about Pompey. Maybe.

 

With where the Jays are on the win curve, and considering Sanchez probably won't be that good but still has good traditional stats in his brief ML tenure, I'd be happy to deal him for Hamels. Makes us legit contenders. Considering Amaro once dealt Lee for two nothing prospects, I don't think we'd need to add much to Sanchez.

GD MVP

GD

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
With where the Jays are on the win curve, and considering Sanchez probably won't be that good but still has good traditional stats in his brief ML tenure, I'd be happy to deal him for Hamels. Makes us legit contenders. Considering Amaro once dealt Lee for two nothing prospects, I don't think we'd need to add much to Sanchez.

 

Didn't he want Pederson+Urias or something absolutely retarded?

Boxcar All-Star

Boxcar

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Didn't he want Pederson+Urias or something absolutely retarded?

 

If that is true, f*** that. This guy is all over the place lol.

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