NHL Thread

[Laika]

People (not me, I'll save my argument for no cap) are arguing that this status quo is not in the spirit of the cap.

 

I don't see (but honestly don't really look) people saying they are procedurally cheating.

 

I have seen people say they are 'cheating' by keeping players on LTIR beyond when they are actually injured. This isn't the same thing as saying they faked the injury from the get-go to game the cap system, just extended it at the end when the playoffs were assured anyway. This is theoretically cheating, as you are suppose to active guys from LTIR as soon as they are able to play, but pretty much impossible to prove anyway.

 

I would imagine the vast majority of people in that second camp are really saying the spirit of the cap is not being served by the current structure.

 

I don't get the conspiracy angel other than that it is being driven by fans/players of the losers. Just because it might be driven by bitter losers, doesn't mean it doesn't have merit. Bitter losers can have legit points.

 

Man, people are literally saying that Kucherov agreed to stay on LTIR for additional weeks/months to help them circumvent the cap.

 

That's a conspiracy theory. There's no other way to describe it.

[Spanky99]

Man, people are literally saying that Kucherov agreed to stay on LTIR for additional weeks/months to help them circumvent the cap.

 

That's a conspiracy theory. There's no other way to describe it.

 

It's flipping ludicrous and has followed them in every round on social media, lol.

[z3r0s]

Man, people are literally saying that Kucherov agreed to stay on LTIR for additional weeks/months to help them circumvent the cap.

 

That's a conspiracy theory. There's no other way to describe it.

 

It actually boggles my mind that anyone could say that this is clearly untrue. It could be true or false, but its certainly not out of the realm.

 

Guy was legit hurt, nobody reasonable disputes this

Guy had been skating in practice for a long time (like months?)

Lightning basically had a playoff spot wrapped up at this point, no rush to get him back

Brought back pretty much immediately after Stamkos could be put on LTIR for roughly the same cap hit

 

I'm not saying its true or untrue, but its certainly a believable thing that could have happened to circumvent the cap. If it WAS true, it would be 'cheating', but that kind of cheating where you can't prove it at all, so it doesn't really matter.

 

None of the above says anything relevant about the contention that the cap should apply in the playoffs as it does in the regular season.

 

I don't really have a dog in this fight. I'm not mad about it, I don't like the cap to start with, I don't even really care about hockey anymore.

But I do find it odd how many people are so willing to hand wave this away as just a conspiracy, even when that doesn't really address the core of the argument on the other side.

[Laika]

It actually boggles my mind that anyone could say that this is clearly untrue. It could be true or false, but its certainly not out of the realm.

 

Guy was legit hurt, nobody reasonable disputes this

Guy had been skating in practice for a long time (like months?)

Lightning basically had a playoff spot wrapped up at this point, no rush to get him back

Brought back pretty much immediately after Stamkos could be put on LTIR for roughly the same cap hit

 

I'm not saying its true or untrue, but its certainly a believable thing that could have happened to circumvent the cap. If it WAS true, it would be 'cheating', but that kind of cheating where you can't prove it at all, so it doesn't really matter.

 

None of the above says anything relevant about the contention that the cap should apply in the playoffs as it does in the regular season.

 

I don't really have a dog in this fight. I'm not mad about it, I don't like the cap to start with, I don't even really care about hockey anymore.

But I do find it odd how many people are so willing to hand wave this away as just a conspiracy, even when that doesn't really address the core of the argument on the other side.

 

He had f***ing hip surgery in December!!! He was probably "skating" like my grandma for the first few weeks.

 

I don't understand the Stamkos point. Didn't Kucherov not play a single regular season game?

 

Really, I think TB just "benefitted" from the timing of the injuries as far as the cap s*** goes.

 

I actually would not care either way if there is a rule change. If the NHL wants to have the salary cap apply to the playoffs, that's fine. What I find disagreeable is that idea that Nikita Kucherov would willingly not play games for any extended period of time, if he was completely healthy. I don't think professional athletes think like that. Maybe he'd understand if the team said, hey sit out these last couple of games so we can squeeze the cap, but anything longer than that? The guy is chasing personal accomplishments and points totals, trying to climb up the career leaderboards and become a hall of famer, etc.

[BTS]

It actually boggles my mind that anyone could say that this is clearly untrue. It could be true or false, but its certainly not out of the realm.

 

Guy was legit hurt, nobody reasonable disputes this

Guy had been skating in practice for a long time (like months?)

Lightning basically had a playoff spot wrapped up at this point, no rush to get him back

Brought back pretty much immediately after Stamkos could be put on LTIR for roughly the same cap hit

 

I'm not saying its true or untrue, but its certainly a believable thing that could have happened to circumvent the cap. If it WAS true, it would be 'cheating', but that kind of cheating where you can't prove it at all, so it doesn't really matter.

 

None of the above says anything relevant about the contention that the cap should apply in the playoffs as it does in the regular season.

 

I don't really have a dog in this fight. I'm not mad about it, I don't like the cap to start with, I don't even really care about hockey anymore.

But I do find it odd how many people are so willing to hand wave this away as just a conspiracy, even when that doesn't really address the core of the argument on the other side.

 

Are there actually people who want a "playoff cap" who don't also believe Kucherov was deliberately held out? Because this is a fundamental disagreement with the cap being calculated as a pro-rated sum of daily cap hits for the entirety of the regular season. The cap has been around for 15-20 years, and I don't recall ever seeing people advocate for preventing teams from ever rostering a team whose summed cap hits exceed the cap, even for a short period. This would kill the trade deadline, and disincentivize teams from adding meaningful replacements for long term injuries.

 

My impression is that the entire debate about the cap started this year, from a conspiracy theory about TB's handling of Kucherov. Is anyone complaining that Boston was "over the cap" because of the Taylor Hall addition?

[z3r0s]

Are there actually people who want a "playoff cap" who don't also believe Kucherov was deliberately held out? Because this is a fundamental disagreement with the cap being calculated as a pro-rated sum of daily cap hits for the entirety of the regular season. The cap has been around for 15-20 years, and I don't recall ever seeing people advocate for preventing teams from ever rostering a team whose summed cap hits exceed the cap, even for a short period. This would kill the trade deadline, and disincentivize teams from adding meaningful replacements for long term injuries.

 

My impression is that the entire debate about the cap started this year, from a conspiracy theory about TB's handling of Kucherov. Is anyone complaining that Boston was "over the cap" because of the Taylor Hall addition?

 

 

Didn't they have basically the same debate over Patrick Kane a few years ago? I thought I heard something about the Leafs a year or two ago, but nobody cared b/c they had their typical exit. An issue is always going to be louder when in potentially 'matters'.

 

I don't want any cap, but if you are playing under one, why is it different in the playoffs? Its rewarding teams for having fortuitous luck with LTIR timing and setting up a situation where people may abuse it by keeping a dude on the shelf for an extra few weeks near the end of a season.

[z3r0s]

Really, I think TB just "benefitted" from the timing of the injuries as far as the cap s*** goes.

 

This is totally believable, but I think its just as believable that they kept him on the shelf for a while so they didn't have to deal with the cap repercussions. If this had happened in the middle of the year, they would have had to.

[Laika]

This is totally believable, but I think its just as believable that they kept him on the shelf for a while so they didn't have to deal with the cap repercussions. If this had happened in the middle of the year, they would have had to.

 

So you legitimately think it's believable/reasonable that Kucherov was told by the team that they were not going to activate him for weeks/months despite him being completely healthy, and he just went along with it?

 

Like, he was cleared by doctors to play games and the team told him mmmm nah we will activate you in 6 weeks or whatever and he just said sure?

[z3r0s]

So you legitimately think it's believable/reasonable that Kucherov was told by the team that they were not going to activate him for weeks/months despite him being completely healthy, and he just went along with it?

 

Like, he was cleared by doctors to play games and the team told him mmmm nah we will activate you in 6 weeks or whatever and he just said sure?

 

Believable and 'I legitimately think' are different things. If you are looking for my personal opinion (which won't be based on much, I wasn't tracking it at the time)

 

A month+ doesn't seem reasonable to me, but I wouldn't be shocked if it somehow came out that he was well ready 2 weeks before the end of the season. The team said we could activate you now, but we're going to lose player X, Y, and Z for the playoffs. They had the playoffs locked up at that point, so he agreed he would 'continue to build up'.

 

I think that scenario is pretty much just as believable as him actually being ready exactly for day 1 of the playoffs.

 

But once again, the 'LTIR conspiracy' isn't even the crux of the argument. The 'spirit of the cap' part really seems to be the root of it.

[JaysAllMighty]

Go Habs Go! It's so much fun when your team is in the Stanley Cup finals.

 

 

[Krylian]

Congrats to the Tampa Bay Lightning. Back to back champs.

[Spanky99]

What he said, lol.

 

...

[Krylian]

 

Lol

[Spanky99]

 

Lol

 

Bwahahahaha... I'm dead, F U HABS!!!

[z3r0s]

'tis better to have played and lost, then to have never left the first round at all

 

poetry.

[BigCecil]

Kucherov press conference is me. f*** the Habs. Glad its over.

[JaysAllMighty]

Congratulations Tampa Bay Lightning. Best team won.

[wilko]

[Laika]

A pretty sad finals, really.

 

Not much sport to it.

 

Montreal didn't even have more than 2 or 3 good scoring chances that last game. Caufield's crossbar wasn't even a high percentage opportunity, just a great shot. Anderson's breakaway he didn't even get a good shot off. There may have been 1 or 2 opportunities in tight that Vasilevsky put good poke checks on.

[BTS]

The "18M over the cap" people are throwing around is just silly. Gaborik and Nilsson were like 9M of that and didn't play all season or playoffs.

[Laika]

The "18M over the cap" people are throwing around is just silly. Gaborik and Nilsson were like 9M of that and didn't play all season or playoffs.

 

And if you take David Savard + whoever else off the team Montreal still gets crushed.

[Laika]

The "18M over the cap" people are throwing around is just silly. Gaborik and Nilsson were like 9M of that and didn't play all season or playoffs.

 

And if you take David Savard + whoever else off the team Montreal still gets crushed.

 

If Tampa Bay was forced to comply with the cap during the playoffs it's not like they would have been without Stamkos or Kucherov.

[TheHurl]

The "18M over the cap" people are throwing around is just silly. Gaborik and Nilsson were like 9M of that and didn't play all season or playoffs.

 

The Bolts tabled a change to the rule when the Blackhawks won their last cup. The league voted it down. I hope the league brings it back up for vote again now.

[z3r0s]

The Bolts tabled a change to the rule when the Blackhawks won their last cup. The league voted it down. I hope the league brings it back up for vote again now.

 

lol, truly amazing.

[Krylian]

 

Love it.

[JaysAllMighty]

Habs so much more successful in the Playoffs than the Leafs.

 

Habs will win it all next season.

 

[RobinThicc]

No they wont.

[Krylian]

They won't even make the playoffs

[Spanky99]

They won't even make the playoffs

 

Unlikely... all the big boys are back next season in our division.

[JaysAllMighty]

Unlikely... all the big boys are back next season in our division.

 

I can't blame the leafs fans hoping the Habs won't make the playoffs... LOL

 

Leafs would get their asses kicked again. So much fun.