Carlos Danger

We made the playoffs in a shortened season with 16 teams made the playoffs and we were out in 2. The baseball odds are saying unless the Jays get a Bauer and a Singer or something like that, we are not making the playoffs in 2021 assuming it is 162 and normal amount of playoff teams. The 2016 team was still majority AAs and Tony LaCava doing the Happ or Estrada resigns,, I can't recall which.

So Shapiro would not give autonomy to an experienced GM who had just made the ALCS, but he was going to give it to a guy who had never ever been a GM? By what measure is Russ a better GM anyway. What metrics are available at this point to make that assertion. Atkins was hand picked by Shapiro because he knew Atkins knew the deal/expectations/his place in the pecking order. Not only for “baseball skills”

So, if that is true, which I believe it is, that means he would not have full autonomy. If AA would not have full autonomy, why would Atkins?

Then why did AA leave?

Cleveland wants catching!!

The Pirates have a few pitchers that I think would be upgrades in TO. Some of them it is buy low time IMO.. I wonder if they could do a package deal and get two...

Not good to have that break right in the middle of baseball FA season.. That is going to hurt I think.... s***!

More like I love me some Sandy, like Houck and Baz is just a more moveable/valuable asset to acquire someone else I might be loving on.

Thanks! Did you see post 512? Would be curious your opinion on that also? Thanks!

I think at this point we should not even be contemplating giving him a shot. We just need to go fwd in planning with Vlad at 1b or DH. Run prevention is supposed to be a goal for 2021 and Vlad at 3b does not meet that goal.

Just curious why you guys favor Lindor over TT? Thanks!

Yea because in an off season baseball thread we don't EVER try to predict what the GM would do. We don't ever try and predict what FAs they would go after or what players we will protect in rule 5 or try to predict what other GMs will do or how the manager will set his batting order or what position a player will play, etc, etc. Trying to predict what a GM will do is EXCACTLY what we are doing in this thread. It was a discussion between philosophies of two long time VPs/GMs in the game and it is relevant as any other discussion. A lot of board member engaged in the discussion and we had some activity in the place which has like 20 something regulars this time of year. It is stupid of you IMO to criticize a discussion whether a GM would trade a future hall of famer second baseman for a FA starter. (Kent/ Cone) or send a bunch of young pitching prospects for a FA starter (Price deal). If that is not legit discussion on a baseball forum in the offseason then I don't know what is... Why you don't you stop being such a curmudgeon and making comments that discourage engagement and just appreciate there IS discussion and engagement on this board. If you don't like the topic, don't participate and go watch Golden Girl reruns until there is a new topic.

How about this one? Greyson Rodriguez, Adams and Perdomo (SS Ariz) for Sandy Alcantra, Shane Baz and Tanner Houck? Thanks!

Need quick turn around on this one please guys: Dynasty, HTH These are pitchers scoring categories: Holds (HLD) 1 Pitching Inherited Runners Stranded (IRS) 1 Pitching Quality Starts (QS) 1 Pitching Saves (SV) 1 Pitching Strikeouts Pitched (K) 1 Pitching Wins (W) 1 Pitching Earned Run Average (ERA) 1 Pitching Strikeouts Pitched Per Nine Innings (K/9) 1 Pitching Walks Allowed Per Nine Innings (BB/9) 1 Pitching WHIP Ratio (WHIP) Would you do this deal? Greyson Rodriguez & Jordyn Adams(CF prospect Angels) plus 1-2 NDP 2020 for: Sandy Alcantra, Ethan Hankins (SP), and Tanner Houck SP, plus 1-5 NPD 2020 Fair, one side way stronger, depends, loco? Thanks!

I am basing it on his rumored comments to AA when he came on board. His actions with the Indians, his comments in general in a lot of the interviews I have heard by him. We also need to define a "move". I am sure Shapiro and any GM would make deadline moves to improve a team in a playoff race. I do remember the chatter around the time of the Miller trade was that probably would not have occurred at that cost in a Shapiro regime. Obviously I don't know him, I am just some random fan looking at it from 50,000 ft. I am, just saying based on his comments, history and apparent philosophy, just don't see it because I think his fall back/default mode is play it safe which is fine in most cases. But no risk no reward... I think Epstien has that risk/reward mode and knows when to apply it... Again just observations from some random fan.

HTH Dynasty leagues with OBP, SLG% 1b, 2b, 3B etc Trea Turner or Lindor? Ranks in order if you could have one: Vaugn, Carlson, Kelenic? Thanks!

I am going to hone in on your Clevinger example. Obviously in retrospect a disaster acquisitions based on missing playoffs and now TJ for 6 solid prospects or whatever it was. I would not have done that trade and I said it before that due to his injury issues. However, it is a prime example of a team going for it. Assuming Clevinger was healthy and Lamet also, the Padres did not anticipate that. I truly believe the Padres would have won that series. It would have had a domino affect on their whole staff and pen and the Dodgers IMO could not have matched it. You all know Shapiro would not have done the July 2015 trades that AA did... But damn was that a fun ride and Ryan Goins catch plus a few things here and there and might have turned out different. The Stripling move was not a gamble, though unfortunately I think we will look back and see the Dodgers won that.. But those trades are not indicative if the Jays have the gumption to go all in and "gamble" to bring us to the promised land. I think the Jays are all about year in year out sustainability, which is great, but sometime you are always waiting for the right opportunity or things to go your way and sometimes it never does or you pass on opportunities that don't appear again with that mentality.

The counter to that is that the Jays or a team like that does not exist in a vacuum. Other teams will make that move to sacrifice the future and put them over the top/give them that competitive edge they need to win the WS. I guess it depends what you want as a fan. A WS then 5 years of s*** or playoffs every year but no WS...

Not arguing that, especially if he said it. I guess what that translates to is I am good at building a WS winner with different orgs, but I am not good at having a sustainable winner. Basically what I am saying about Shapiro; he is great at a sustainable winner type team, a team that always goes to the dance but never f***s the prom queen. I guess Epstien doesn't always go to the dance, but when he does, he always f***s the prom Queen..

I think there is personally. My criticism of Shapiro is that he is all about building a sustainable winner, which is great, but at the expense of the killer instinct needed to some time pull the trigger to win get to a WS. This is based on his past actions and that it is industry recognized, based on comments from AA and Shapiros's history etc, that he is involved in GM decisions and Russ does not have full autonomy for personnel selection. One example I point to is that in 2016 when Cleveland was in playoff contention, Chernoff pulled the trigger on the Miller deal and gave away 4 prospects to get that key piece he felt they needed to put them over the top. I personally, don't think Shapiro does that move. Now, the Indians didn't win the WS, but the Miller deal was a huge piece away that put them a few outs away from winning it and probably the most impactful deadline move during 2016. Shapiro is great at building processes, farms and sustainability. IMO Epstein has the killer instinct to know when to go all in for a WS winner, and also build solid teams year in and year out, which at the end of the day is what I want. That is my .02 cents on those two for what it is worth.

Multiple World Series Championships vs none.

Hopefully no more then one year and we can get Epstien in in 2022

Solak has been moved. Thanks!

I don't agree with this, a bird (Blue Jay) in the hand is better then two in the bush. The Jays are in a unique position to take advantage of a relatively low cost market compared to pre-COVID times. With another company announcing a 96% plus effective vaccine today, the chances are higher that the 2022 season will be a normal season with fans etc. This will allow teams in apprehensive financial positions now, to commit, which means more competition, players more willing to wait it out/hold out. We are unique in this FA because we have a lot of money off books and not much $$$ commitment. Our ownership is willing to spend even with COVID situation, depreciated market... Seize while the iron is hot. We do not historically do well on an even playing field in the FA market.

Worst trade of AA's career...