Brownie19

Since 2011, Toronto's had 33 picks in the first 3 rounds. St. Louis has had 30....yet Toronto's draft picks (all rounds) have produced 62% more WAR than Cardinal draft picks. The Cards have enjoyed extra picks (they had two first rounders + 3 comp picks in 2012 and two 1st round picks in 2013 + 2014 and three 1st round picks in 2016), but you're too arrogant to even look. How you like them apples clown?

Do AA exploits a loop hole and drafts quality players - but deserves no credit. Some of you really are insufferable.

Jesus - I hope all Blue Jays fans are doing this.

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Bob Elliott was wrong? INCONCEIVABLE!

Probably not. Shatkin's says he has trade value and they hate giving up on value. Expect him on the team.

You guys think Swanson becomes something?

This. Rushed throws and/or throws on the run/off-balance are incredibly stressful on the arm. It's a really bad idea.

I still think if he trades Thor for JD, instead of Dickey - it changes a lot of the narrative surrounding him. He takes way more s*** for the Dickey deal than he gets praise for landing JD. He takes way more s*** for adding aging, overpriced veterans than he does for dumping Vernon Wells and his contract...and for some unknown, utterly crazy reason, he takes way more s*** for trading way prospects than for signing Vlad Jr......and that's just the way it will always be.

I'm not sure why you think that was a 180....that WAS the plan. Build value through the farm system + save the team money, then add payroll and sell prospects before the JB/EE window closes. This is a pretty common plan eh? Houston just went out and sign veterans (McCann, Reddick, Morton, Beltran) and traded prospects for Verlander, Giles (even Liriano).

Serious question. If AA traded Thor for JD after the 2014 season, traded Norris+ for David Price at the deadline, Hoffman/Reyes for Tulo and Baretto and all those other JAGS for Dickey + the Marlins.....and that team made the ALCS in back to back years...would everyone still think he ruined the Blue Jays and set them back 5 years?

I tend to agree with all of that...however, I do wonder how many FO's are truly allowed to try and build a sustainable winner....and lets consider how many succeed...At times, I think we undersell the reality that he created a team that went to the ALCS in back to back years. I mean how many GM's formulate a long term plan, only to see it fail and them get fired because, well....baseball happens. Whether you're the Mets and you watch all your pitchers arms fall off + your franchise 3rd baseman develops a chronic condition...or your the Marlins and your star pitcher dies and Ownership changes hands. I mean things change quickly in baseball....sustainable winning is incredible difficult. I still have a hard time faulting a guy for taking a shot - especially when he succeeded (playoffs are generally a crap shoot). If the Jays win the WS in 2015 and we are where we are today, would you still consider AA a failure - simply because we didn't win the division in 7 of the next 10 years? (or some theoretical milestones that you'd decided would demonstrate sustainable success)

You have to consider what he inherited though. The farm system was god awful and he was told to cut the payroll. It took at least 3 years to get back to square 1. Just curious - how many years will you give Shatkins before you consider their tenure a failure? The team was in considerably better shape than it was went AA took over.

Really? He took over a mediocre team with a high payroll and an awful farm system. He cleared payroll and rebuild the farm system while exploiting loop holes in the CBA. He took chances on some failed prospects and on the breakouts by JB + EE. knowing the EE/JB era and cheap contracts was coming to an end, he spent the last 2 seasons selling off the prospects to make a run at the playoffs - which was successful and something that rejuvenated the fan base. Then he bailed, knowing full well it wasn't sustainable. That's as straight forward of a plan as it gets man.

Meh - there were a lot of good things he did before "selling the farm". He managed to unload Vernon Wells (a small miracle really). He exploited loop holes in the CBA to drastically improve the farm system. I loved his moves to get Brandon Morrow, Travis and of course JD. I like the risks he took to sign EE and JB long term. We don't know what would have happened if he didn't make the Dickey / Florida deals...and I was on this board before those happened (and perhaps wasn't nearly as educated about baseball either)....but was he considered to be complete dog s*** before those 2 moves by most on this board? Just curious.

Its kind of alarming that teams are just realizing this now....

Davis and Holland were both rather pedestrian last year and both were awful in the 2nd half. It's possibility they realize how fickle RP'ing is, accept their bodies may be failing them and know this is their last chance to cash in. If they continue the slide this year, they could be looking at 3 or 4 more years in the bigs, working off shorter contracts with lower AAV's. It might look like this....17M + 4($6M) = $41M Dave Cameron is predicting Davis gets 4 years, $68M and that Holland gets 3 years, $45M. Pencil in a final year for Davis at $5M and an extra 2 for Holland at $10M for comparison purposes. If I'm in that position, I'm looking for guaranteed money all day long. I'd rather take the pay day and potentially leave $10-20M in career earnings on the table than take the risk that I'll remain healthy and effective....especially when dominant, deep bullpens are all the rage right now.

This is what happens when you read Steve Simmon's columns...

What do you guys think about Adam Frazier as a target? Lefty bat who can play all over the diamond.

Can he find someone to take no Matt Kemp and the rest of his contract? Let's see if he's still got it...hahaha

Except Stroman wasn't better in 2017 than he was in 2016, unless you measure by wins and ERA - which I don't.

Stro's FIP was 3.90 (3.59 xFIP) last year, but is 3.57 for his career. His career BB/9 is 2.40, which isn't 'nearly' 3....you're really stretching it man. But I get it, you like him and there are Coors factors that are hard to predict. The guy throws hard (94 MPH avg fastball last year) and gets lots of ground balls. I love that, but he needs to throw A LOT more strikes for me...he's certainly an option, but I couldn't imagine giving him a 4 or 5 year deal. You don't lock up 5th starters that long.

Am I looking at the wrong career 'away' splits? K/9 - 6.11 BB/9 - 4.02 FIP - 4.19 xFIP - 4.40 I don't get it personally. I never get excited about guys who've walked more than 4 per 9 innings for their career - especially with such a low K/9....4.69 BB/9 last year - barf.

Didn't Sogard re-sign?

It's not 2014 anymore man!