Brownie19

Man - their average attendance over the last 7 years was 10,322. I'm sure with a new stadium and team, they would draw well. The question is whether that's sustainable or not. May depend on Ownership. I'd love to see a team return to Montreal - but typically I don't support relocation based on attendance. Of note, the Cubs drew on average just 9,752 per game in 1981 - 3rd last in the majors (just above Minny and SD). I'm pretty happy the Cubs didn't get relocated.

Remember when the Astros traded another 26 year old AAAA player? He's now hitting .300/.369/.498 131 wRC+ after finally being given some extended playing time in the majors. J.D. Davis should give us some hope that Fisher becomes a quality player.

Great point. The Expos were always known for their awesome attendance.

Fair points; however: 1. Almost everyone thought Pittsburgh stole Archer from TB. He's young and signed well below his value. 2. I believe most also thought Seattle got ripped off in the Cano/Diaz deal. Very similar to the Archer trade. That said, getting Kelenic and Dunn has turned out pretty awesome. 3. Wood + Puig likely had similar value to Stro. They got Jeter (45 FV) and Josiah Gray (50 FV). MLB.com had Kay and SWR both as 50 FV players...... I'll admit Pham for nothing was amazing. TB front office is on another level. If #1 and #2 are any indication....hopefully the tables will turn on this universally horrible deal for Stroman as quick as it did on the Archer and Cano/Diaz deals.

Most of those Yankee trade examples you gave were from 2017 or earlier. The market for prospects collapsed in 2018 and 2019...as did the value of veterans like Smoak, Pillar, etc. The returns we've gotten over the past 2 years are very similar to other deals in baseball. That exacerbates your issue re: timing; however, if their hands were in fact tied by Ownership, then that muddies the waters. I don't think anyone thought the market would go from Quintana for Eloy down to Gray for the 3 marginal guys the Yankees gave up to get him. BTW - Gray gives you a good example of how much the market collapse as even the GREAT Cashman traded Gray for next to nothing. The collapse of the market has caught almost all of MLB by surprise. The White Sox have to be viewed as brilliant as they managed to unload Quintana and Easton for massive hauls right before it happened. Cashman stole Torres too right before it collapsed. Who knows when the FO got approval to tear down this team. Maybe they had the ability the whole time, maybe Rogers stopped them until this year. Tough to judge without that information. At least in the meantime, they were able to create payroll flexibility, while building depth within the farm system.

Cite the case that illustrates better value was available. It's all relative man. Look at the deals made in 2018 and 2019 and let us know where the GM cleaned up. I'll give you one to start. Luke Voit.

glory - repeat this point until the cows come home. It's spot on.

Of course it is. It all is. Almost everything you hear from any front office, reporters or industry experts is ********. f***, most the s*** on here is too. You haven't been drinking the kool-aid have you?

Christ Jonn - even Barkerfan knows the answer to your question. You're so enraged with these trades you're not thinking straight.

Rays non-tendered CJ Cron last year after a 2.1 WAR season. He had less than 6 years service time. TB realised he's not that good and likely wouldn't repeat or justify the raise he would get. Twins signed him and still have him under control next year before he becomes a FA in 2021.

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1805942 That's a cool story...although he's hitting 96 by crow hopping into the pitch... That said - that kid has some really smooth mechanics!

Regardless - one of the worst starting pitchers in baseball was certainly a non-tender candidate. Thank god Biagini and Stevenson have value so we can give Fisher a shot.

You must have missed the all-star game. Max Muncy is one hell of a baseball player.

Man - what happened to Austin Barnes? 3.7 WAR, 142 wRC+ with almost a 1:1 BB:K ratio in only 262 PA's in 2017. He looked like the next coming of Jason Kendall. Now he's back in AAA after hitting like Goins the past 2 years. This kid hit in every stop throughout his career.

Here's a great example of how one missing word changes EVERYTHING.

Why would you come to that conclusion? You literally have zero information on the topic.

It's bizarre they say Stevenson doesn't have a position when reports were he was phenomenal defensively in CF

Obviously. But he's a top 15 prospect in baseball who's now 22. He was awful in the majors last year and they haven't given him a sniff this year either. If he can't get extended playing time in the Astros OF, how the f*** is Fisher going to?

Kyle Tucker also can't crack the Astros OF and was significantly worse than Fisher last year. You think he sucks too? You must have LOVED the Clay Buchholz signing this spring. He was good in 2010, 2013 and 2015. He's "proven he can be on the top with the big guys he did it before".

That is utter nonsense. If Sanchez finished the season strong, he would have been worth more than a 4th OFer? Next year is his walk year. If he became what Roark was this year (which would be a massive turn around for someone who's been s*** for 3 straight years)....the market for Roark was Jameson Hannah - a soon to be 23 year old in A+ ball. His upside? probably a 4th OFer at best. It's also utter nonsense to suggest this team is running the team like TB and will just trade the young guys for prospects. The team needed to rebuild after 2015 and 2016. My 7 year old knew that. You need waves of young talent to create a sustainable winner. That's what we're doing. You have no idea what this FO will do once the team gets good. Don't assume. What a f***ing brutal take on things man.

I understand that. Cal's a fun guy to follow. I love OBP guys too, but the reality is - guys with no power usually flop as soon as they start facing pitchers who can throw strikes consistently.

Maybe. Trading one of the worst starting pitchers in baseball + average bullpen piece + prospect with ISO <.100 to get a quality 4th OFer with control is a win man. He he excels, Teo or Grich probably become the 4th OFer. Again...the 4th OFer plays on average, 160 games per year. The 4th OFer is really important and is essentially an everyday player. Perhaps you could inform Kevin for us.

Great point - Sanchez could have continued helping the Jays tank in 2020. We really gave up one of our most valuable pieces. Where else are we going to find a starter who can give us 150 innings of 6+ ERA baseball? Our 1st overall chances just dropped significantly.

Great point. 4th OFers are never required. They don't, on average, play about 160 games per year.

The argument that Sanchez would have dominated in the pen and provided more value in a trade next year is bogus. Even if he became an all-star closer like Greene....look what Detroit got for him this year. The best argument I've seen is extending Stroman would have been better than the return we got. I'd probably agree; however, without knowing how much he wanted or whether he was serious about re-signing - you can't judge that. Are you so sure the return for Bauer was tangibly better than what the Jays got for Stro? I'm not. The Grich thing has been bad, but I understand the logic. Sign him before he truly breaks out and get some value out of the deal. If he posted a 4 WAR year in 2019, we'd all s*** on Atkins for not extending him before he commanded big $$'s. The good news with Grich is the floor is pretty high. Good, versatile defense and solid base running. At worst, he's still a good 4th OFer.