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Barry Davis asked Danny Valencia why he was getting a start tonight against Sonny Gray. I can't believe players would want to talk to Barry Davis at all.

It will be tough for me not to root for Lawrie tonight.

On June 13th the A's record was 25 wins and 39 losses, it is now 43 wins and 51 losses. Over the past 30 games the A's have 18 wins and 12 losses so in spite of their poor record they have been playing decent baseball lately. They have also crawled out of the AL West basement above Seattle. Brett Lawrie got off to a slow start (hitting wise) but has greatly improved his batting average and RBI total over the past several weeks. The A's will be tough to beat. I have adopted the A's as my second team after the Blue Jays out of frustration with the Blue Jays and because the A's now have Canadian, and hockey-like player (in intensity) Brett Lawrie.

I completely agree. I am tired of seeing one prospect after another traded away for the hope that some average MLB player on some other team will make the difference. Me saying Mike Fiers is average is not disrespectful of Mike Fiers since an average MLB pitcher is a very good pitcher but I just don't think he is an ace that will make an impact on the BLue Jays' record.

I am sure that you think that you hit the nail on the head, but unfortunately your post shows your lack of real world experience. Do you really think that a competent pitching coach will rely on statistical data to evaluate the effectiveness of a pitcher who has pitched 95 innings on his own team? Do you need statistical data to decide if Estrada pitched well on Sunday versus Chris Archer? Maybe if you study the statistical data from Sunday's game you will decide that Estrada didn't pitch as well as your own eyes perceived him to have pitched. Many stats can be determined exactly from past data such as RBI's, ERA, walks, strikeouts and numerous others. Some are not absolute such as WAR, which uses an algebraic equation to determine wins over replacement (but it might be useful to some). However, future values are different since they must be predicted based on some predictive model (the model might be a statistical equation or based on a manager's evaluation of future performance). It seems that some people on this forum don't differentiate between values that can be determined exactly from past data (such as RBI's per game) and future values that must be predicted. In the case of Estrada, and a competent pitching coach, the best prediction will be based on their own eyes of how he has performed this year. Anyone who can't understand this concept needs a reality check.

I find you to be rather comical also. You seem to think that baseball stats define a baseball player. Obviously, it is the other way around; baseball players play baseball and depending on their performance the stats are created based on their performance. Since stats resulted from the baseball player's performance the stats can change over time (as they often do). I have used statistical methods to model chemical processes and that experience allows me to understand the limitation of stats and also that you have a very limited understanding of them. So when you and others start telling me that a player has limited potential based on their past stats, all I can do is smile and shake my head. You might be a more logical person in another 20 - 30 years once you finally have a lot more real life experience. In another 20 - 30 years you will have a chance to mix some common sense with your obsession with stats. The misuse of stats on this forum is mind boggling. I have a feeling that the same people who think they can (accurately) predict the future performance of baseball players also think they can predict the performance of stocks on the stock market and will lose a lot of money in the future doing so.

Thank you. At times I think I need to go back to university to understand baseball stats. I am going to keep it simple and just pick up a few of the new ones such as WAR and the like.

Maybe I am too old for this baseball forum. I have been following baseball for 40 years since I was a young teenager. When I started following it in the early 1970's, pitchers were rated by walks, ERA, wins-losses and not much else. Batters were rated by runs scored, RBI's, steals, walks and not much else. I started following the MLB when the Montreal Expos team was Canada's team. I really don't get the younger generation that is so into baseball stats. Maybe it has always been this way, but there weren't a hundred (or hundreds) of stats to keep track of. Can someone tell me, how many stats are there, is it over a hundred?

Thank you. I wonder if I could get a Larry Walker Montreal Expos jersey? I have followed the Blue Jays for 35 years now but I am still hoping for another expansion team in Montreal. I root for the humble, quiet players on the Blue Jays such as Encarnacion, Estrada, Buehrle, Goins, and Navarro. They are just players that I want to see do well, if not in Toronto then somewhere else.

Probably not, since I don't have any player jerseys for any sport. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that Estrada might not be around very long; not because he isn't a good pitcher but because the Blue Jays seem to go through a lot of pitchers.

Then why don't you just put me on ignore and save yourself the aggravation of reading and responding to my posts? Try to remember Mr. Deadpool, baseball is just a game for the enjoyment of fans. I doubt that you are going to make a living being the protector of information on a baseball forum.

You have some serious problems, one is a making something trivial seem like something important. But why should I expect rational thought from someone with a frowning spiderman outfit as his avatar?

In spite of whether people use wins and losses, or one of the other 100 possible stats, Estrada is just as impressive as Fiers. Doubront isn't far off. I would rather the Blue Jays forget about Fiers and go with what they have. Sanchez will be back soon, in the bullpen.

Estrada currently is a good pitcher and he has the potential to become even better. I hope the Blue Jays management can believe their own eyes instead of relying on an overwhelming array of stats.

I actually agree with your opinion. I think managing high priced players requires someone who can manage egos. Somehow Cito Gaston was able to do it. Truth is, I was initially going to use Felipe Alou of the Expos as an example, but I thought people on this forum would relate better to Cito Gaston. I didn't realize there was so much negativity towards Cito Gaston.

????????? If people have a contrary opinion then it is time for the mods. But so what, I know you are just some kid who likes baseball.

If the Blue Jays can get another Estrada-like pitcher without giving up too much talent then I think they should get him. But I hope they won't include Pompey in such a trade. I like seeing a young Canadian with potential on the Blue Jays.

I can't get too excited about Mike Fiers. I think the Blue Jays should give Felix Doubront a chance. He has a better win-loss record than Mike Fiers and the strikeouts per nine innings aren't that different - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/doubrfe01.shtml http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fiersmi01.shtml PS: Marco Estrada has comparable stats to Fiers and better win loss record - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/estrama01.shtml . I think Estrada is a better comparison to Fiers than Doubront since both Estrada and Fiers pitched in Milwaukee.

Thank you for the explanation. I am sorry that I posted a contrary opinion to yours. But yes, a manager and GM who's team wins games and championships make up a good management team, in my opinion. The GM has to get the talent and the manager needs to manage the talent properly. Now my mind is spinning, I thought winning was more fun than losing. I notice on this forum that people are more cheerful when the Blue Jays are winning than when they are losing.

Maybe, but the team record under Cito Gaston from 2008 to 2010 was 211 wins and 201 losses. Anyway, I intended to use Felipe Alou of Montreal Expos as an example of a manager who did a lot with players on a team that was put together on a shoe string budget. Often the Expos would have fire sales like the Oakland A's to unload their high priced players at the end of a season. Still he managed to keep the Expos competitive with young players. The only way that I can see the Blue Jays becoming competitive in the future is if they get a new manager and GM. I would prefer to watch the Blue Jays going with talent from their farm system than to keep watching them lose with overpriced "star" players acquired from other teams.

But I am not sure if Gibbons could. I do agree though that they were better defensively but I don't think they were any better offensively than the current Blue Jays.

I will just quote Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cito_Gaston "Cito Gaston managed the Toronto Blue Jays from 1989 to 1997, and again from 2008 to 2010. During this time, he managed the Blue Jays to four American League East division titles (1989, 1991, 1992 and 1993), two American League pennants (1992 and 1993) and two World Series titles (1992 and 1993)." It is difficult (at this time) to imagine this being said about any other Blue Jays manager in the next 50 years. I didn't actually follow the Blue Jays very closely during his first term as manager (I followed the Expos more closely), but even in his second term he was an improvement over John Gibbons: On June 20, 2008, Gaston was rehired as the manager of the Blue Jays to replace the fired John Gibbons. It was his first managerial job at the major-league level since being fired by the Blue Jays 11 years earlier—unusual for a World Series-winning manager. In his second tenure as manager, he succeeded in improving the team's record to the point that it finished over .500 after a poor start to the season under his predecessor, John Gibbons, that had the team in last place at the time of his rehiring. When Gibbons was fired, the team's record was 35–39; after Gaston and his coaching staff took over, the team earned a record of 51–37 for the remainder of the season which included a late ten-game winning streak and the Blue Jays finishing fourth in the American League East. (from Wikipedia). I followed the Blue Jays during his second term as a manager and he seemed to be doing a good job.

Seriously, why do people post garbage like this? If you don't agree, why not just say so instead of posting something that says nothing? Are you unable to express your thoughts other than with an insult?

I guess that is sarcasm since you didn't spell dumb correctly. Or maybe you really are ....

I am sure this makes sense to you but I have no idea what it means? Deadpool is Right counter: 14 - 1 = 13