BigCecil

Ya, its hard to say. The kid had so much talent. He is still young but it certainly seems now to be the way you describe it. I had such high hopes when he burst on to the scene putting up that .950 OPS over 150 ABs back in 2011. Watched Gravemen pitch last night. Didn't look at the numbers yet but he looked pretty good. He was the piece BB wanted.

That's fair, thanks. good perspective.

hmmm. Why would you say that already? I like what I've seen from Travis but he is 24 and played a handful of MLB games spending time on the DL which is an issue for Lawrie. Lawrie's D is + (at 3rd...where he wouldn't be playing) even if he looks to be a .700 ish OPS offensive avg ceiling. Lawrie's K rate has shot up this season. He looked good but I don't think we can be sure Travis can stick yet. Small sample size. With Lawrie at least we know what he can do, and cant.

It doesn't happen often but lots of players improve changing their swing and/or approach including pitch recognition. Edwin up until midway through 2011 has terrible pitch selection on breaking stuff away. JD and Jose changed their swings and became stars. I don't see lightening striking 4 times with Pillar but if him reducing his leg kick gives him more comfort to see pitches a bit longer and if he can be just decent at the plate it would be a huge boost to a guy putting up a great defensive WAR already.

That's totally fair. I realize if it was easy it would be done.

We placed a lot of hope on a kid with 20 or so MLB starts but I think he probably would have added 2-3 wins by now putting us closer to NYY. And he showed the ability to pitch pretty deep into games which would have helped our pen.

Jays have among the best offense in MLB. The pen even moreso that the rotation is their weakness. Pap moves everyone else down as options to bring in when SP struggles. We have Jose and Edwin signed for one more year. Reyes is aging. AL East is open for taking. Got to make a move. Pap is a no brainer even if it costs us a mid rotation ceiling prospect and some $. Like everyone I hate given up controllable cheap young talent but prospects are just that. I don't see an abundance of SP options we can acquire and bump Sanchez to pen. f*** I wish Stro never got hurt.

Yes, hard to say. @ $16mm he isn't cheap for a DH who can only hit RHP. His production is Pillar like so far. Another couple months will tell the tale. I actually like Farrel's move. Too much entitlement on rosters and Ortiz wasn't getting it done through 220 PAs. I remember when we released the Big Hurt one season 65 ABs in and he was making what we now pay Edwin then. Good ol JPR.

People thought he was done in 2010 after a rough first 2 months. There was a big debate then about resigning him for 2011. Then he took off and ending up with a .900 OPS. This time may actually be the end, but if he is willing to hang on like Giambi did and take less dough he is still a nice piece to have. Doesn't sound like he is ready to go there yet though.

Well written. I'm not thrilled that in our society Justin Beiber is "valued" more financially(or was lol) than a brain surgeon or teacher of my son etc etc, but that's a much different issue that the relative "worth" of a baseball player in the wildly large and profitable business of sport entertainment. Elite athletic talent is a rare commodity and for whatever reasons, our free market values it highly from a compensatory perspective.

lol. Ya, I thought as much. Don't get that guy. Always raging. That was an exciting win. Lets keep it rolling.

Why do you have that very angry f***er's comment calling me full retard for actually cheering for the Jays (cyber style albeit) when we came back in that 7-6 game on your sig line?

Its a fair point. Lots of players have made adjustments that changed their careers including guys like Bautista, Edwin and JD. Likely? Probably not but the kid has been proving people wrong since he was drafted in the 32nd round. His current WAR is 1.9 even with his plate struggles.

Highest-drafted players on Blue Jays’ 40-man roster Justin Smoak, 1st round, 11th pick R.A. Dickey, 1st round, 18th pick Chad Jenkins, 1st round, 20th pick Marcus Stroman, 1st round, 22nd pick Aaron Sanchez, 1st round, 34th pick Brett Cecil, 1st round, 38th pick Josh Donaldson, 1st round, 48th pick Daniel Norris, 2nd round Rob Rasmussen, 2nd round Ryan Goins, 4th round Steve Tolleson, 5th round Marco Estrada, 6th round Edwin Encarnacion, 9th round Aaron Loup, 9th round Matt Hague, 9th round A.J. Jimenez, 9th round Andrew Albers, 10th round Michael Saunders, 11th round Josh Thole, 13th round Devon Travis, 13th round Drew Hutchison, 15th round Dalton Pompey, 16th round Russell Martin, 17th round Danny Valencia, 19th round Ryan Tepera, 19th round Jose Bautista, 20th round Scott Copeland, 21st round Steve Delabar, 29th round Colt Hynes, 31st round Kevin Pillar, 32nd round Mark Buehrle, 38th round This list shows us that too. So tough to predict.

Highest-drafted players on Blue Jays’ 40-man roster Justin Smoak, 1st round, 11th pick R.A. Dickey, 1st round, 18th pick Chad Jenkins, 1st round, 20th pick Marcus Stroman, 1st round, 22nd pick Aaron Sanchez, 1st round, 34th pick Brett Cecil, 1st round, 38th pick Josh Donaldson, 1st round, 48th pick Daniel Norris, 2nd round Rob Rasmussen, 2nd round Ryan Goins, 4th round Steve Tolleson, 5th round Marco Estrada, 6th round Edwin Encarnacion, 9th round Aaron Loup, 9th round Matt Hague, 9th round A.J. Jimenez, 9th round Andrew Albers, 10th round Michael Saunders, 11th round Josh Thole, 13th round Devon Travis, 13th round Drew Hutchison, 15th round Dalton Pompey, 16th round Russell Martin, 17th round Danny Valencia, 19th round Ryan Tepera, 19th round Jose Bautista, 20th round Scott Copeland, 21st round Steve Delabar, 29th round Colt Hynes, 31st round Kevin Pillar, 32nd round Mark Buehrle, 38th round After all the assessment for the draft its still a very inexact science when you look at this list.

Kept JPA and punted Gomes kind of trumps everything else.

Its a business and its all relative to the business of baseball and not brain surgery. The players take what the market will bare. I would do the exact same thing they do for my family when negotiating. We all would. Being "worth their salary" is a value assessment related to their performance vis a vis their peers on the diamond only.

I love my Jays but think its pretty clear that on MLB player development and talent evaluation our organization has been pretty bottom of the pack. It is evidenced on the field by the lack of truly above replacement level regulars we have developed in our system, and by those we have let go to other organizations.

No. Gose has been regressing as expected off a hot start. His SB numbers are consistently not great. He just isn't the speed threat many thought he might be. I think the WAR comparison to Pillar is interesting at this point in season given how poorly Pillar has done at the dish.

Pillar 3-4 years CF?! Based on a highlight reel catches and 2 HR game off Scherzer? .637 OPS after his recent rebound although he is at 1.8 WAR off the D. Gose is at 1 WAR with a .727 OPS.

Smoak's D on 1st has been stabilizing for all of the IF He is a switch hitter who has given us good ABs all season with an excellent OBP and has upside in the Rogers Center.

Have to really hand it to Reyes. The best way to respond the criticism (and some of it has been legit) is to be the exciting catalyst he still can be. Since this came out he has been electric. Today was awesome.

HOF over rated manager. Not hard to look good running WAMCO out there

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/anthopoulos-jays-looking-to-add-bullpen-help/ Yes please. (just saw this in another thread - old news -s***)

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/numbers-suggest-reyes-is-part-of-jays-solution/ new Reyes article...production