Olerud363

Yeah. It's so sad. Lawrie is just another bad young player, like Travis Snider. It's depressing. He really looks horrible.

It's ultimate craziness to say Melky and Dickey have been good. A guy with a 5.00 era and a .280 left fielder with 1 homer??? Take Ichiro... age him until he's almost 40 and hits .280 instead of .330 and the mariners give him away for nothing. There you have 2013 Melky. That's not good. For both Dickey and Melky there are signs they might turn it aorund. But that doesn't make what they've done so far "good".

Agreed. He launched half the farm system out the window for nothing. Not only in the big trades. But I just checked to see how Woj and Carlos Perez are doing. Both in aaa looking great. And somehow Sam Dyson is in Floridas system now doing pretty well as a starter?? What! He wasn't even involved in a trade.

At times this is such an insanely joyless team. Reyes was fun to watch so he had to get a terrible injury. It's always nice to have a great young player, but that's not allowed, so Lawrie had to crash. There seems to be a law with this team that nothing enjoyable is allowed, there can't really ever be hope. We can't have a great young player, can't have a good farm system. Can't have anything to really look forward to. There is an chance that AA and Beeston have created a soulless, hopeless team. Old pitchers, old sluggers. Getting older. Just a hopeless march to 76 wins and the 10th draft pick. Where a team like Houston is ready to get their franchise player in the draft next year and will be destroying us in 2 years. In 2 years we will have to watch Woj and Carloz Perez and Houstons 2013 and 2014 franchise players destroy us. Houston Astros 2015 - most exciting team in baseball, amazing young core, fun, fun season 94 wins. Blue jays 2015 another joyless 77 wins (again)

Yes. It's not unheard of to see guys put it together at 26, 27 heck even 29 like Raul Ibanez. Not that it's practical to wait that long. But it's just give the guy 500 at bats, especially when you don't have anything better to do. You know, from 2009-2012 it wasn't like the Jays were so busy with their pennant races that they couldn't afford to give Snider at bats.

I'm not complaining about losing the "present" version of Snider... I still wouldn't be surprised if he breaks out though . Maybe he is having a little luck this year... but maybe he needs a little luck, has been dogged by slow starts, so maybe a hot start with a bit of luck will get him into a comfort zone. Something to watch.

Good points. But left field could of been a Moises Sierra/Snider platoon. Or maybe get a John Gomes or something. Would a platoon option involving Snider and spending 16 million on something else be better then Melky?? Something to keep watching...

Agreed. And I hope he keeps it up. The hope is he's one of these guys like Alex Gordon, who finds himself after 25, and the steroids didn't help that much. But it is funny to see people comparing Melky a guy who finally developed after a lot of struggles to Snider a guy going through the same struggles as Melky once went through.

The reply was in response to a guy who was claiming Travis Snider was inconsistent, sorry my bad it should of been directed at him, or I should of explained it better. I was just trying to show that Melky is inconsistent too. When talking about consistency are 40 game samples allowed?? I think everyone inconsistent when you look at it at that level.

Maybe he had a career ending injury and it was announced in the rambling AA press conference in which the end of David Cooper was also announed???? AA - ...And our scouts really liked Boni. In fact Anibel Sanchez did some consulting for us and just raved about Boni... And our scouts also looked really closely at Melky, they talked to everyone and David Coopers career has ended and we also think Johnson will have a great year, he's only just really recovering from shoulder injuries our scouts just love him, and Kenen Bailli has a bad knee and his career has ended as well and our scouts just love Anthony Gose, he really has made ajustments and with his athleticism and our scouts...

I included it to get a taste of post roid Melky. In another post I said it was early and the trends could change. But if you prefer let's use all seasons with 180+ plate appearances. Melky .752 .718 .641 .752 .671 .809 .906 Snider .748 .767 .616 .697 Which player is more consistent??

Unlike the consistency shown by Melky. 2010 Melky OPS .671 2011 Melky OPS .809 2012 Melky OPS .906 2013 Melky OPS .680 I guess looking at it Melky does consistently show a about a .200 point difference in OPS between proven roid seasons and seasons where he (presumably) isn't on roids. Very consistent player.

It's amazing that you can say this with a straight face. You do realize that if Snider is to get released by the Pirates he will be following in Melky's footsteps EXACTLY. Your hero Melky got released by the Atlanta Braves after being given a second chance with them, at the same age Snider is getting a second chance with the pirates. It wasn't until his third chance with KC that Melky finally had a real good season (apparently with a little help).

When I see a comment like this I always start by explaining where dogs come from. If you get a dog, you can have a little less risk if you get one all grown up (Especially a rescue dog where you don't know the parents and you can see how big, and what kind of temperment it will end up with). But it was still once a puppy and came from somewhere. Baseball players are the same. OK. This is actually an interesting comparison. Snider and Melky both came up at 20... both were traded by their organization at around age 24. It is actually very interesting to compare them age by age. Let's look at plate appearances, and the triple slash stats. 20 M - 19 .211 .211 .211 .421 20 S - 80 .301 .338 .466 .803 21 M - 524 .280 .360 .391 .752 21 S - 276 .241 .328 .419 .748 22 M - 612 .273 .327 .391 .718 22 S - 319 .255 .304 .463 .767 23 M - 453 .249 .301 .341 .641 23 S - 202 .225 .269 .348 .616 24 M - 540 .274 .336 .416 .752 24 S - 185 .250 .319 .378 .697 25 M - 509 .255 .317 .354 .671 25 S - 107 .292 .364 .406 .771 ** (not complete yet) Some interesting stats. Snider is actually ahead in terms of OPS if you compare him to Melky through age 25. Melky has always been given more at bats. One still wonders what Snider could do with 500 plate appearances. Even with Melky's BIG years at age 26 and 27 their life time OPS is actually still quite similiar Melky life time .284 .337 .412 .749 Snider life time .252 .314 .415 .735 So our border line all star barely has an OPS higher than a waste of time fatty who will be released in 18 months?? That's not much of a border line all star... especially considering all his good work was done under the specter of steroids.

Amazing that people still complain about Snider's power when we have a .279 .316 .364 left fielder with one homer. But... But... Melky has a sweet swing with line drives while Snider is fat... Melky is fat to if you didn't notice. Right now the Snider move(s) are a negative. Lincoln 0-1 6.something era Snider .290 .360 .400 (aproximate) Melky .280 .316 .360 (aprosimate) This stuff can change quickly. But right now a Snider/Sierra platoon and spending the 16 million on something else would look good. Pulling for Snider, but also pulling for Melky. Hopefully they both look good in a few weeks. And hopefully Lincoln provides some value.

Bautista. Just because so far it looks like the wrist is fine. Patient power hitter, who can lead by example. Doesn't need to win MVP, just needs to stay healthy and be a top 10 ops guy. Has done exactly that so far. It's a positive because of the questions surrounding the wrist.

That's a good point. However JP is below Borders in the on base and k/bb departments. If he could reach 92/93 Borders level in on base (about .288) and k/bb ratio that would be great. Right now he is way below that. I'm just saying something has to give. It would be very hard to envision Arencibia's play remaining the same and the Jays winning. Something has to give. Either his power will decrease, or his walks will go up. If his power decreases then his playing time has to go down. I don't think you can make the playoffs with a player having a 200-8 k/bb ratio and a .250 on base average because. 1. The player would need to hit 40 homers to be productive, even as a catcher. 2. At some point the pitchers would stop giving the guy anything at all to hit. A player is not going to have 40 homers, 8 walks and 200 strikeouts. Are they?? 3. When the power decreases the player will adjust, or if he doesn't the organization would have to reduce his playing time... wouldn't they?? 4. So the chances that J.P. will hit 40 homers with a 200-8 k/bb ratio are almost nothing. He might hit 27 homers with a 200-8 k/bb ratio. But if he does that it will torpedo the Jays chances of making the playoffs. 5. I know they did it with Borders. But to me that represents the limitis of how bad one can be. A .280 on base, 30 walks. OK. you can win with such a player. If J.P. can get to that level it will be a huge improvement. All this again assumes J.P. won't hit 40 homers with a 200-8 k/bb... the pitchers will adjust, and either his walks will go up, or he'll hit .202 with 27 homers. If he adjust maybe he'll hit .240 with 30 homers and 30 walks. That wouldn't be bad.

Things are looking up in both wins and on base percentage... Jays 17-24 .310 oba The improvement is mainly due to improved batting average as many posters such as Spanky predicted would happen. Still near the bottom, but no longer in the "utter disaster of an organization" category. We are actually very close to the first place Yankees in terms of offense. Have scored more runs, have a similiar on base percentage. The difference between the Jays and Yankees is all pitching. Big series coming up obviously. Need to win this one. I still think the Jays fortunes will be tied to team on base percentage. I just don't see Beurhle, Johnson, Morrow, Happ, Romero in their current states of injury and performance forming an elite pitching staff. But I could see the offense being one of the best in the league, Some things have to happen. Reyes has to get healthy, Bautista has to stay healthy, Lind has to stay good Lind, Lawrie has to continue rising out of his slump. If all that happens then it all comes down to J.P. Arencibia... I just don't see a playoff team carrying a guy with a .250 on base percentage and a 200-8 k/bb, which J.P. remains on track for at the 1/4 mark. This has to improve eventually?? Right?? Or he has to stop hitting homers, because why would the pitchers give him anything to hit at all at this point??

Kindof Hope Melky goes down. He's really not doing anything. A Sierra/Gose platoon would be a lot more fun.

So wait a minute.... The last three times they said Morrow would start they pushed it back. I'm calling this, season over for Morrow. Next tweet in the series. Brendan Kenneday @BKennedyStar: Morrow placed on 60 day dl. That's right 60 day dl. Further tests revealed a serious back injury similiar to the one that ended David Coopers season.

I strongly disagree here. Arencibias lifetime on base percentage is a reflection of Dwayne Murphy's work. Nobody else has ever tried with Arencibia. Emilo's lifetime on base is .329 away from the Jays. Derosa's is .340. If Emilio and Derosa could hit there lifetime on base percentage that would be OK. J.P.s lifetime oba is a reflection of Murphy's work anyway.

Emilio Bonifacio hit .290 walked 59 times and had a .360 on base average in 2011. So who-ever the Marlins hitting coach was that year managed to do it.

Scene from Spring training Beest: "Alex... the minor leaguers. They look great. Absolutely great. Unbelievable job." Alex: "Thanks Paul. We worked really hard on the draft the last few years." Beest: "And you guys did a bang-up job. I just got a look at some of those boys. And I'm drooling. I'm drooling Alex. You did terrific. Did I tell you I'm drooling?" Alex (laughing): "It's great to see you so excited." Beest: "Excited?? Oh boy am I excited... hey Alex listen. Do those boys all have a place to stay for the spring. You see I have this Condo and Mrs. Beest didn't come down this year... so there's lots of extra room."

The issues are related. If we are using Murphy's "pull the ball" it's related to the handling of the Cito situation(s) for a number of reasons. 1. The pull the ball stuff came from Cito originally. 2. The organization has never really fired Cito. Cito never left. Since 99 he's always been around as hitting coach, consultant, manager then consultant again. He is listed 7th on the baseball operations org chart. 3. Like Cito Murphy hasn't left the building. He's still there as 1st base coach. So you wanted to discuss if Murphy still has influence, it seems to me that question is related to how much influence Cito has. I guess we have to assume both have influence. Cito is listed 7th on the baseball org chart (ahead of the information analasyst Joe Sheehan) and Murphy is the 1st base coach assistant hitting coach. We have to assume they do have influence and AA wants them to have influence. Otherwise why give them these positions?? So us dumb fans can think that the jays don't throw nice men out on the street?? The alternative is that they aren't suppose to have influence and Beeston/AA put them in those positions just to make them feel better. Which is even worse. And if that's the case I suspect they will be piping up whenever they can anyway.

If this was a court case I would dig up the 1990s Cito interviews especially around 96 and I know several times on the pregame show he talked about Olerud pulling the ball. I remember two cases in particular. One of them I believe was after a June 1st game (I didn't remember the exact date but think I found the game on bbref) So if you can find the sun or star from June 2nd 1996 you might be able to find the quotes. But you know what?? Newspaper articles from the 1990s don't seem to be on the net. So to settle this someone will have to do some research. If I can get access to these old newspapers I'll get you some quotes.