Olerud363

As an outsider I would also guess part of the job is to drink with the other scouts and find out inside information. I'm not joking here. The scouts need to be well connected and well liked, so that if Mike Sirotka or Sergio Santos is damaged goods they can get that information to AA. Fits in with what you are saying. They need to see what time guys are showing up... and find out tidbits from other scouts.

Beeston uses Cito Gaston and George Bell as his consultants. Maybe they told him that Moises Sierra was better then Snider and to get whatever they could for the fat kid... Perhaps that comment was to sarcastic. (And I shouldn't diss George Bell. I have no idea what his philosaphies are... he had some terrific years.. the only concern I'd have is if his idea of a good team involved a lot of players who are like him but don't have the talent to swing at everything). But there were obviously discussions about Snider's future potential at various points and those discussions led to the eventual trade. It would be interesting to know who was involved in those discussions and what was said,

It's an important question. If this is how it went down then AA shouldn't be fired. Need to get a new president then go from there... If the new president thinks he can work with AA, then AA stays.

So if the buck stops and starts with AA maybe that's the problem... In other organizations there is more of a system of mentorship, support, feedback and evaluation for the GM. For example Tampa Bay, it sounds like the ultimate vision, philosaphy and values of the organization are established by Sternberg. In Boston it's Henry. In Toronto it's ... AA?? Beeston??

He's leading Rogers 3-0 in playoff appearances. But your right. Day to day meddling can be bad. I'm looking more for a guy who will ask tough questions. A guy who AA will be a bit nervous when he has a meeting with him.

Yeah... that would be the kind of character who could be a successful owner.

I wanted to start a thread about the ownership, and orginizational heirarchy for the Toronto Blue Jays and other organizations. I find this stuff fascinating and important. For example I was just looking at the Rays organizational chart and the top dog is principle owner and former wall street guy Stuart Sternberg. Sounds like a similar background to red sox owner John Henry. In my opinion this is what the Jays need. Somebody above the president (Beeston) who has an analytical background, has never been involved in politics in any way, and is deeply (even pathologically) obsessed with winning. How do you get a guy like this when you have coorporate ownership?? The guys above Beeston are Phil Lind and Keith Pelley. Who are these guys?? How much time do they spend thinking about baseball?? How much do they really care?? It seems like we are at a disadvantage when you have these guys (Lind and Pelley) going against John Henry and this Stuart Sternberg guy and the Streinbrenners and even Peter Angello. Every other team in our division has an alpha male at the very top. We have a coorporation.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/books/reviews/2011-03-25-extra-2-percent-book-review.htm I'm much more interested in reading this then the Jeff Blair book. But I should get them both and read them back to back for the contrast.

Did you read or hear much about Jeff Blair's book Full Count?? I read a review on the Drunk Blue Jays site that made it sound like the book is about how AA has "saved" the franchise and brought the glory days back. If current trends continue I wonder if Blair will acknowledge what has actually happened...

This is a really important thread. It's not trolling at all. There are years of history of discussion about Snider, and it has revolved around fundamental issues at the core of the Toronto Blue Jays and how they develop, evaluate and value players. Snider hit a pinch hit grand slam for a very competitive Pirates team last night. Today's Travis Snider triple slash - .278 .345 .417 Today''s Melky triple slash - .282 .320 .376

There was no need to "construct" a major league roster full of "vets" that's worthy of "contention". AA was suppose to construct a system and an environment that would produce many young players. As we've seen in Oakland, Tampa Bay, Minnesota, and even Baltimore this can work. AA was suppose to build a pipeline that could provide young players, and then compliment it with younger journeyman types. Most Prospects fail. So you need to collect a lot of them. AA was suppose to collect as many as possible and create an environment for them to suceed. He gave up on this and created a scary, depressing, old, perverse team. He was never suppose to construct a roster. He was suppose to construct a pipeline and environment which would breed success and let it evolve. At this he has failed. '

We are also chasing the second wild card. Losing ground to Tamba and Baltimore is not good. Maybe worse than losing ground to Yanks and Sox. Also digs us farther into last place.

Sure if was only a corner player. But Gomes is also a catcher, and this year 95% a catcher. Cleveland is better then us. They are doing what we thought we'd thought we'd do. So far many of their decisions (Swicher, Reynolds, Gomes as backup catcher) have worked out much better than ours. I would much rather have a young player like Gomes (or Thole) as part of the catching tandem then Henry Blanco.

It's a pet peeve of mine too. Bench players aren't good enough to be regulars so they all have their flaws. But I think guys like Yan Gomes and Eric Hinske are pretty good bench players. But their bad regulars so every time you complement a guy like Gomes or Hinske you get 40 people telling you how much they suck.

It's a pet peeve of mine too. Bench players aren't good enough to be regulars so they all have their flaws. But I think guys like Yan Gomes and Eric Hinske are pretty good bench players. But their bad regulars so every time you complement a guy like Gomes or Hinske you get 40 people telling you how much they suck.

Maybe he has great hand eye coordination and would be a .350 hitter without the "hole in the swing"... and with the hole in the swing he's .230. At this point I don't take this kind of thing to seriously. I have had my fill of superscouts predicting things that don't come true. The arrogance of superscouts is ridiculous. Despite all that has happened, despite all the predictions that never come true (both good and bad) we still have this "superscouting" mentality on the board. I'm not saying that scouting is bad. It's just the absolute certainty that is getting hilarious. It's not an exact science. 1. Guys with holes in their swings will still have variation. A guy with superior hand eye coordination and ability to recognize pitches still might hit OK even with the hole in their swing. Are you saying every guy with a hole in their swing will hit .100?? Or is it .150?? Or .200?? Is it possible for Yan gomes to hit .230 .270 .400 with this hole?? Or do guys with holes in their have a maximum ceiling of .185?? 2. Isn't a guy with a hole in their swing a better bet anyway because theoretically it could be fixed?? While genetic limations of hand eye coordination and ability to recognize pitches may never improve. Two of the best things that happened with this organization in the last 5 years are Bautista and EE getting really good, apparently because of swing adjustments. So wouldn't we want to have a right handed hitter with a "hole in his swing" because that is one thing the organization has done well for the last few years... fixed a couple of right handed hitters swings??

This thread was started on May 8th Today is Tuesday May 21, 2013 Farrell 27-18 .342 Jays 18-26 .309 We've made no progress in catching crafty John and his on base percentage loving band of idiots. But we haven't fallen any farther behind. Some sort of good news is that the race for the 2nd wild card is currently kindof weak. Jays only 6 games back. Things have improved slightly for the Jays since the day this thread was started. I know there is another thread bashing J.P. But that is reserved for bashing his overall game (defense and offense). This one is for on base percentage so once in a while I want to check in on how J.P.s game is evolving in that respect. J.P. Arencibia k/bb 52-2. On base percentage .245. Carlos Santana k/bb on base: 31-23 .403, Buster Posey k/bb On base - 22-22 .396 Apparently J.P, Santana, and Posey are the three top young catchers in the game. The difference between the 3 being that Posey has been in the playoffs and world series while Santana and Arencibia have not. #of JPA walks since May 8th - 0 #of JPA quotes about how good of a run producer he is since May 8th- not sure maybe only 2 or 3 from that one article?? Yan Gomes career triple slash (166 plate appearances) - .238 .279 .464 JP Arencibia career triple slash (1050 plate appearances) - .223 .271 .438 Good news - Yan has small sample size. If Yan slumps JP will be back ahead soon. Bad news - Yan has small sample size. if Yan gets hot he will quickly crush JP in terms of career OPS.

Their survivors. I have a feeling that the team is headed for 82 wins this year. They won't really be "in it" for a single day. 18th overall draft pick. Never in it for a day. Do it again next year.

I agree with that... Just saying JPA is so bad it's very hard to outdo him in terms of badness and be a "JPA Light".

Calm down. Prospects get hurt. Nicolino, Syndegard, Woj, and Descifina are healthy and are all pitching really well. Yes, Osuna and Sanchez are hurt and thier value is low, but the other guys look great and are the backbone of a nice farm system. oh wait...

How can he be JPA lite when his OPS is higher then JPs?? His career major league OPS will end up being higher then JPs after today's 2 homers. Small sample size, ofcourse. His overall minor league OPS, and his aaa OPS are both higher then JPA as well. This makes no sense. He's very similiar to JP. The data so far indicates he's a tad better as a hitter.

?? Why do you say that?? He's a utility guy who can play the corners and catch, and has some pop in his bat. That's a valueable player. The sorta player Tampa would probably value. The Jays don't seem to value versatility. A versatile player probably won't fit a particular mold, so his weaknesses tend to be emphasized on a scouting report. As well a good bench player is often not a great regular, because if the player was a great regular he wouldn't be a bench player. Yan Gomes could be incredible for what he is. He's kind of where Ed Sprague was once. I wouldn't be surprised if he could put together an Ed Sprague like career. Though he probably won't pop 36 homers (which was nothing when Sprague popped them in the middle of the steroid era).

While as fans we tend to exagerrate the bad and good (and I am guilty) it is no exagerration to say this has been the most demoralizing 40 games in Blue Jays history (when compared to expectations). There is just nothing fun at all about this team. It's like anything remotely good or exciting isn't allowed and must be crushed. Lawrie - it would be fun and exciting to see a young player develop -- so the baseball gods crush him.

I know what you mean. Just the fact they haven't totally tanked seems like a positive. Both are in position to have good seasons. Unlike Lawrie or Boni...

Great post. The problems run deep.