Olerud363

Can you just like, stop being you for a week or so?

It's a baseball board moron. There is an ignore list. I have it on good word 95% of the board has me on ignore, so if you don't want to read my posts, put me on ignore. If you don't want to read them for a week, put me on ignore for a week.

Didn't John Schneider coach most of the young core players when they were in the minors (and good)? Do you guys think he's like "what the f***? Bo hit .400 in the minors while pulling the ball all the time - WTF are you dipshits telling him?"

 

It is just so bizarre how almost every single young player immediately s*** the bed when, or soon after arriving at the ML level. Lots of these players are going to get moved and it will be fascinating if they immediately revert back into the players we thought they would be when they leave the org (or not).

They really started s***ing the bed in 2023 and it got worse this year. It's all bizarre considering where they were in 2021.

1. Homerun jackets works (good vibes work)

2. Illegal Performance enhancing stuff that is widely used but not detectable and harder to get in Canada, so Jays are behind on it. *

3. Not enough analytics

4. Too much analytics

5. Vaccine (Jays may have got more doses because of Justin) **

6. Legal performance enhancing (sleep, no alcohol, redbull at right dose and timing) that Jays are behind on.

* Instead of minor league parks look at Guerrero performance in Canada vs USA, those minor league parks happen to be in USA

** I hesitate to bring up 5 but we are all adults. It is baseball related because we yet to have an explanation for the data. Personal opinion is that it is not 5.

Good observation. I suspect DS is HATED by the organization. He isn't listening or buying into their team hitting philosophies at all. Coaches must be foaming at the mouth that he won't do what's he's told. Jansen probably falls into this camp too. Good one them for being such rebels.

WAR per PA

Davis Schneider - 238 PA 2.6 WAR

Gunnar Hedneron - 900 PA 7.7 WAR

Of all the great franchises, the geniuses, the aces, Mike Elias greatest GM of all time, AA- Alex Anthopolous. These greats have chosen some great players.

But the great as rated by fWAR per PA is Davis Schneider

Yes, the wins have been huge. The Semien and Gausman hits far outweigh the bad signings.

 

But neither of those are nearly as good as getting 5/6 cheap years out of an all star youngster.

Teoscar------| 18/19/20/21/22

Janse--------| 18/19/20/21/22/23/24

Gurriel-------| 18/19/20/21/22

Biggio------------|19/20/

Guerrero---------|19/20/21/22/23

Bichette----------|19/20/21/22/23

Kirk-------------------|20/21/22/23

Varsho---------------------------|23/24

Schnieder------------------------ 23/24

Roughly speaking above is years when each player was useful

Had the most useful young players in 2020, but probably highest combined value in 2021,

2024 we are down to only 3 useful young players. The Bo/Vlad/Kirk collapse really messes things up and if they uncollapsed it would look good again.

The positive thing and I'm not joking is that Bo and Vlad will never be easier to re-sign than right now

Yes and no. They probably want a short term deal to rebuild value. Maybe they would be willing to sign some kind of short term deal with club option at this point.

Like 1 years 20 million extensions for 2026 with 3 year 100 million club option.

Why Bo/Vlad sign it. Guarantees them another 20 million of life time earnings during this confusing time of sucking

Why team signs it. 20 million is a big waste at their current production but they are paying for a shorter team option that would get Jays all of their prime if rehabilitated.

Not sure which side says no. But probably is a bad deal for one... really hard to figure out what kind of contract extension would make sense, like I said some arrangement that gives Vlad/Bo more guaranteed salary and security, and in return gives Jays are good option for taking on the risk.

The core was as of 2020:

 

- Vlad (generational type hitter - Pujols and Miggy potential)

- Bo (all-star SS)

- Biggio (4 WAR combined in his first 159 MLB games - versatile defensively, great eye)

- Teo (brokeout in 2020 and we still had 3 more years of control)

- LGJ (125 and 134 wRC+ seasons in 2019/2020 and was signed to a VERY team friendly deal)

- Jansen (hadn't broken out yet, but held his own behind the disk and was a very good hitter in the minors, so you expected the offense was coming)

- Kirk (arrived in 2020 after tearing up the minors like very few have)

- Pearson (Top 10 prospect in baseball - top of the rotation potential)

- Romano (Canadian who was emerging as a force at the back end of the pen)

- Merryweather (0.5 WAR in just 13 innings in 2020 - looked electric)

- Manoah (11th overall pick in the 2019 draft - fast tracked to the majors)

- Austin Martin (5th overall draft pick in 2020 - was projected to go 1st overall and move quickly through the minors)

 

Then we had SWR, Kay, Groshans, Orelvis, Moreno and Hatch as all 45+ prospects.

 

We added Ryu and Springer to supplement the core - not to form "part" of the core. We knew Springer wouldn't be great in 2024-2026, but it was reasonable to expect a couple of 4-6 WAR seasons in 2021-2023.

 

That's it - that's what they built and it literally all became a flaming pile of s*** in the matter of 3 years.

Man. So brutal. The Vlad/Bo collapse dominates but Summer of 2021 it looked so good...

Moreno - hitting .388 .430 .620 and looked to be another generational hitter

Austin - thought of as having first overall talent and had .420 on base percentage

Manoah - dominating his first 10 starts in the majors

Orelvis - hitting great as a teenager... like .290 with power for a while

Teo - looking like Edwin with a tad fewer walks. Hitting near .300 with massive power

Guerrero - contending for triple crown at 22

I'm repeating was said kind of, but these guys looked so good up through late July 2021... and still great until mid April 2022. Then every player went negative within 1 year

Guerrero - not a triple crown guy, but a 1 WAR guy

Teoscar - not a .300 hitter but .250 which is big difference with his walk rate

Kirk - not edgar martinez but more like John McDonald or something

Bo - Never able to control the strike zone so is less than useless in a slump

Your timelines are a bit off. I believe the move was to trade Stro for SWR and Kay in 2019 and then use the money they would have paid Stro to sign Ryu in 2020. It looked glorious in 2020. Ryu was a stud and Stro didn't play baseball. Just think, if Pearson actually develops into a legit starting pitcher, perhaps they don't pivot and trade for Berrios in 2021...

 

I never did like trading that haul for Berrios and then paying him FA money (even if those players traded suck), but 2021 was the f***ing year. We looked like a GREAT team, so I supported moves to "go for it". We went so hard after Berrios that we didn't have a lot left to shore up the bullpen and Brad Hand f***ed us over in 8 innings.

I realize Berrios wasn't signed until 2021 but what I mean is standing there in July 2019 you had

Stroman to trade

The 5th round pick

120 million for a contract offseason 2021/2022

Stroman was traded for Kay and SWR, the 5th round pick was Martin, Martin and SWR was Berrios, and the 120 million tagged for offseason 2021/2022 also went to Berrios.

So you had those 3 things and that turned into Berrios

Springer hurt (thank god, please IL him)

 

Vlad classic 114 mph single didn't watch but I would guess it had a 2 degree launch angle or something

Instead of homerun contest should have top exit velocities contest. Prediction for today

Vlad Guerrero Jr. 116 mph 10 degrees line out center field

Vlad Guerrero Jr. 114 mph 8 degrees single (already happened)

Vlad Guerrero Jr. 111 mph -4 degrees GIDP

Vlad Guerrero Jr 109 mph 33 degrees 410 feet out deep center field

Kyle Schwarber 108 mph 33 degrees 415 feet HR center field

Kyle Schwarber 105 mph 32 degrees 399 feed HR right field.

I would largely expect a rebuild behind the scenes similar to what occurred after the 2015/2016 teams reached their nadir. That didn't exactly prove to be the best strategy last time around as the team wasn't blown up when it became apparent the writing was on the wall, and likely won't be the proper strategy this time around either.

Hypothetically if you could 'save' money in 2026 and spend it in 2030 what would be better

55, 55, 55 wins 2025-28 with 70 million payroll

or

75, 75, 75 wins 2025-28 with 180 million payroll

Budgets are year to year so might be harder to get permission to use money saved in future year, but what if you could?

Imagine 3 55 win years lead to - top 3 draft picks, huge international signing pool, prospects obtained by trading vets, + cash on hand to invest

Would the 55 win years be better long term? Or would the fickle fans not watch the first 100 win Blue Jays team in history because they are salty over a 55 win season ?

I think a strike on them is that there should be core pieces now performing that would be coming to replace the cheap production that we should have gotten from Vlad (and Bo who has generally otherwise performed). They're not there. Maybe Schneider is one of those pieces, but we're not rolling in top prospects here.

The series of transactions that gets me is that in July 2019 they had Stroman, the 5th pick in the draft and 120 million to spend on a free agent contract and they turned it into Berrios, who has been up and down a bit, an innings eater, not bad at times, but honestly should have done better than Berrios for Stroman and the 5th pick and 120 million.

I'm not simping for anyone you f***tard, they can fire the whole lot I don't really give a s***. It's just funny to read all you know it alls calling for people heads like you had a f***ing clue in 2021 or 2022 we'd get zero WAR a month into the 2024 season from Vlad, Bo, Kirk, Springer, Manoah and Pearson and also have 5 high leverage relievers all die at atvyhe same time too.

Your implying that the collapse of Vlad/Bo/Kirk/Springer/Manoah/Pearson was random. Chances of this being random are actually pretty low.

If it was like a weird cluster of disease, like say 5 people in your town got a rare cancer at the same time, first thing to do (before identifying the cause) would be to run some statistical tests to see if it is random. If it's not random then you send the team in to test for PCBs and stuff.

So if Vlad, Bo, Kirk, Springer, Manoah and Pearson collapse to nothing

a) Commisioner gets stats guys to run tests to see if it is random

If there is chance it isn't random look for more cases including early onset decline injury from Bautista/Tulo/Sanchez/Devon Travis and injury for Donaldson.

c) If data indicates Blue Jays players are being harmed some how get players union and commissioner to make joint statement suspending Shapiro and Atkins while investigation is done.

March 2017 Shapiro makes special announcement

"I am Shaprio. I have nice suit., But that is not all. I now present to you the Blue Jays’ high performance department, an interdisciplinary collection of specialists covering everything from strength and conditioning to psychology. It’s an all-encompassing collective the Blue Jays hope will provide each and every player in the organization, from the teenager at the bottom of the minors to the $20-million asset playing every day on the big-league roster, the tools and resources they need to be at their best."

2017/18 20 million dollar a year assets playing everday (Bautista/Tulo/Donaldson) collapse to zero value

Those who were teenagers in 2017 have their moments but collapse to zero value in 2024, when they should be at their prime.

How can we not fire Shaprio? Like right now. For that 'High performance' ******** article from 2017 alone.

I'm not simping for anyone you f***tard, they can fire the whole lot I don't really give a s***. It's just funny to read all you know it alls calling for people heads like you had a f***ing clue in 2021 or 2022 we'd get zero WAR a month into the 2024 season from Vlad, Bo, Kirk, Springer, Manoah and Pearson and also have 5 high leverage relievers all die at atvyhe same time too.

I think the calling for people's heads is because of articles like this one https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/big-read-inside-toronto-blue-jays-high-performance-department/

The article is from 2017. It says "That’s thanks to the Blue Jays’ high performance department, an interdisciplinary collection of specialists covering everything from strength and conditioning to psychology. It’s an all-encompassing collective the Blue Jays hope will provide each and every player in the organization, from the teenager at the bottom of the minors to the $20-million asset playing every day on the big-league roster, the tools and resources they need to be at their best."

Can we agree this program has been a complete failure - let's count the failures by year

2017 - Could not keep Bautista from an early decline, could not keep Sanchez coming off of an ERA title healthy. Tulo played hardly at all. (among other failures)

2018 - Could not keep Donaldson/Tulo healthy (combined 20 games) and Donaldson's trade value tanked

2019 - Could not get Vlad Guerrero Jr. off to that great of a start

2020 - VJG shows up at 380 pounds,

2021 - some positives of course, but could not keep Kirby Yates healthy, Springer while playing his best as a Blue Jay missed 80 games

2022 - The VJG decline starts,

2023 - The Manoah collapse, Kirk loses all power

2024 - The singularity. 5 or so formerly good young players collapse to 0 WAR at age 25.

Bad stuff happens to all teams, but what evidence in minors or majors is there that the so-called 'high performance team' led to anything but low performance and injuries?

Shouldn't the people who made these claims in 2017 be fired ?

What would happen to you at your job at Burger King if you introduced the high performance Whopper program that would lead to better taste and less e-coli but in fact more Whopper's had e-coli? Even if was a weird random new strain of e-coli that no one could have predicted you still likely get fired.

People say 'f*** Joe Biden' or 'f*** Trump' or 'f*** Trudeau' all the time. Not being political just trying to establish that 'f*** Shapiro' is not over the top, just as 'f*** Trump', 'f*** Biden', 'f*** Trudeau' is not over the top.

Baseball is complicated stuff, running an economy and a society is complicated stuff, the expectation is that Shapiro, Trump, Biden, and Trudeau have resources, data access, and a thoughtfulness that exceeds that of the common man including your Blue Jays Message Board posters, and if we get the impression they are not doing a good job, then f*** them.

f*** me I can't believe how simple some fans can be.

 

Shapiro, Atkins, Shapiro, Atkins blah blah blah

 

It doesn't really matter who the f*** is running things when your mid twenties core all s*** the bed at the same time.

 

I mean yeah, f*** Shapiro and f*** Atkins for not predicting something that nobody on the f***ing planet would have predicted either lol

People were predicting that Vlad could bust since 2020 when the 'Send Vlad to Indy ball thread started'. 2021 obviously puts those concerns to rest for a few months, but by mid 2022 lots of posters here were expressing concerns. So nobody predicted this? Not this bad but people saw warning sings.

Anyway their job is not to predict but to prevent.

I wonder what the numbers are on that. How many games do the Jays need to win to ensure there are enough casuals in the stands, spending money to keep the Owner happy. There are thousands of people who just come to games for the atmosphere - who don't give a s*** about baseball, but will spend lots of money as long as it's a happy place to be. What's that number - 80 wins? I do think if we keep the payroll sky high, we can probably hover around 80 wins moving forward - but, without any home grown stud players, it's going to be tough make the playoffs and do any damage in them and the real fans are probably going to get frustrated as s*** with the team.

 

The expanded playoffs probably changes the thought process and the magic number - as I suspect their goal is to have a team that's still in contention for the playoffs in September.

 

I think that's probably the approach they'll take. Load up on the lipstick and keep decorating that pig.

 

However, there's a formula out there where you accept you're a 70 win team for 3-4 years, but if you slash payroll down to $100M, you ultimately make the same profit. I suspect Rogers have watched fans leave, and then return like little puppy dogs as soon as there's a new winner in Town. It's not like fans leave and then never return. They chase winners in TO.

Historical lows and highs in attendance in Skydome/Rogers Center era

1993 - 4 million 95 wins - like 3rd straight 4 million year.

2000 - 1.7 million after 88, 84 and 83 win seasons. This was the 7th or 8th year of decline after the World Series years. Having a 85 win team instead of 75 wins didn't reverse the decline. Oddly enough they contended almost the entire year and were 1 game or so out of a play spot in parts of September but faded last 3 weeks.

2002 - 1.6 million 78 win team. For some reason attendance rebounded in 2001 (first year Rogers ownership maybe gave some hope) with an 80 win team, but hit a new low in 2002.

2010 - 1.5 million 85 win team. Attendance improved from 2002 to 2008 or so with 85 win teams but with some big signings. 2010 was post Halladay trade so that gave a bad vibe I guess.

2013 - 2.4 million 74 wins - Attendance improved from 2010 to 2013 without winning improving... in fact they lost more games each year, but I guess people like hope? (Track team + Marlins pitchers + RA)

2016 - 3.4 million 89 win team - OK. This is a high not a low, but attendance improved from 2010 to 2016. Obviously 2015 was a big factor, but attendance was improving anyway before that.,

2019 - 1.9 million - They dropped real quick after falling from contention.

2023 - 3.2 million - 89 wins back up real quick to after contending again (pandemic screwed other year up).

So I guess Toronto fans kind of like hope and winning.

85 wins is sometimes like a 1.5 million attendance year.

75 wins can be a 2.5 million attendance year if there is big signings or trades.

90 wins a couple of years in a row and contending is 3 million +

Have not had real bad years. lol. If you plotted all this end extrapolated to 55 wins, you'd probably have 725,121 attendance.

So one hard truth is this: Toronto market is so fickle they might draw below 700 thousand for a terrible run while even Baltimore gets 1.5 million for their 48 win team.

I've never considered how the market in Baltimore may impact the market in Toronto. But now I know. Thanks Olerud.

Not sure if this is sarcastic or not. The entire Baltimore denial is hilarious on this board. I guess the truth hurts. My point wasn't quite that the Baltimore market is impacting ** the Toronto market, more that Baltimore is on the verge of achieving the mythical 'sustainable winner', something that was promised in Toronto, but not delivered.

One of the common themes about Baltimore is that they won't be a sustainable winner because their ownership sucks, or their market sucks, or some reason. Well they have new ownership, but they are still cheap and won't generate enough revenue, according to some... However given past history it is more than likely they will generate lots of revenue and be in position for a long and very marketable winning cycle.

Us older fans have always dreamed of returning to something like 83 to 93 where years of winning (and new Stadium) positioned the team to keep a high payroll and keep winning after Bell/Barfield/Moseby/Fernandez were past peak.

Baltimore isn't Tampa Bay, they are a good enough market that if they have 5 or 6 real good seasons they will have enough revenue to continue the cycle a few more years, which is again, what was always dreamed of in Toronto.

** there will be some impacts just by Baltimore winning, if Toronto lucks out to 1 more 87 win season there won't be contention if Baltimore win 110, Toronto will win 87 instead of 89 because Baltimore will beat them two more times, Baltimore by virtue of increased revenue will be bidding for free agents against Toronto, will be a better destination than Toronto... so yeah there will be some impacts that people probably aren't considering.

Ok?

What I am saying is people aren't getting that Baltimore was a better market than Toronto between 1995 and 2000.

In fact between 2000 and 2014 Baltimore beat Toronto in attendance most years.

Toronto attendance varies quite a bit from lows around 1.5 million to 3.5 million when good. Baltimore the same but is probably a lesser market than Toronto. I think they peaked at 2.5 million for their mini run 2012-2016. However that was a 90 win a year team with 1 division title.

Given the past success of Baltimore's market they will likely start drawing 3 million a year again under the new ownership and good teams.

Given the past behavior of Toronto's market they will likely start drawing 1.5 million a year again under the dark times coming up.

So Shapiro has basically f***ed us by having a 5 year downswing coincide with a Baltimore 5 year mega-run. Baltimore will be outdrawing Toronto 2-1 starting next year and this will give them other advantages which lead to more advantages. The ball is rolling in Baltimore, the ball has deflated and dogs are s***ing on it in Toronto.

Shapiro needs to go today.

People don't f***ing get the situation that has developed. Baltimore has not only passed us in prospects but their revenue and payroll potential will likely be higher in 2 years.

Baltimore winning 110 a year as a forever-dynasty will be twice the market Toronto is with 70 wins a year and not a single player whos name you would want on your Jersey.

2025 - Baltimore draws 3.5 million with second consecutive 110 win team and sells a record number of Jersey's (Henderson, rejuvenated Holliday, Cowser, Westburg, Rutchman, etc.).

2025 - Toronto draws 1.9 million with second consecutive 71 win season, Spencer Horwitz Jersey's not selling well despite the fact he gets 3 WAR (.290 11 homers, good 1b defense, lots of walks).

Another question might be, if they keep Shapiro etal, what is it that they will do to improve this team?

 

They arrived with lots of fancy speeches about a wave of talent and it has not shown up. What will they do that is different to improve the drafting and development of the farm system.

 

If they havent been able to achieve these things in the past, what makes anyone think they are capable.

 

So they wait two more years and give it another try, how will this improve the team, with ageing, declining assets.

 

I believe Shapiro is gone at the end of his contract anyway. Shapiro has bigger ambitions, than little old Toronto.

Whatever Shapiro wants in life Mike Elias should get.

HOLY f***. If humanity is to survive Shapiro must live in a van by the river and be known as all that is phony and busted about human society.

Shapiro wants to be commisioner? Mike Elias should get the job.,

Yeah. Shapiro arrived in a potential top 5 market that should be in the Boston/Chicago/Mets tier just below Yankees/Dodgers.

Instead of Waves we watch as the Baltimore Orioles get the waves and waves and waves and waves of prospects.

Baltimore has 3 f***ing 1st round draft picks somehow this year... jesus f***ing christ. They are brilliant, they are a forever-dynasty.

The f***ing morons here, born in 2001 or on so many drugs that they don't remember the mid to late 90s don't understand what Shapiro has done

1. Baltimore isn't the market Toronto could be, however when in a good cycle and Toronto bad it becomes a better market than Toronto

2. From 96 to 2000 or so Baltimore had a high payroll, 3 million fans a year, and stole players like Roberto Alomar from Toronto

3. We are going to return to that dynamic after Baltimore wins 110 a couple more times, and Toronto is winning 70

f*** YOU SHAPIRO!

Bonilla is 2 for 4 with a HR today, to go with an outfield assist.

 

I think that is 4 extra base hits in 3 games.

Call me back when is at least in full season ball.

Actually calling back when he has been able to maintain performance through age 25 without unexplained collapses.

The organization's overreaction to one tough playoff loss in 2022 may be the biggest mistake they ever made!

Alternitive reality

Moreno + something not Gurriel for Varsho

No Teoscar trade

rf Springer .260 27 70

ss Bo Bichette .310 24 80

1b Vlad .280 36 102

lf Hernandez .275 30 100

dh Gurriel .281 24 83

3b Chapman .225 27 77

cf Varsho .230 27 76

c Kirk/Jansen .280 22 80

2b Schneider .276 17 42

This makes some very simple assumptions

1. Everyone is cool and relaxed and excited to put on the homerun jacket, so basically they get 5 extra homers each, except Vlad who gets 10 more because who loves the homerun jacket more than anyone.

2. Schneider doesn't get sat down after going 0 for 7 or something. Comes up in August, plays everday, he hits so many homers everyone loves him because they love putting homerun jacket on others, thus J. Schneider just can't ever take him out of lineup and he works his way out of slump using fun.

This is actually pretty conservative modelling. The effect of fun could be even greater but even above is an awesome run scoring team with fun.

Every single bit of this paragraph is incorrect, I remember 2015 like the back of my hand. The Blue Jays were the best team in baseball by a wide margin.

Is it though? Both the 2015 and 2021 Jays should not be evaluated as they were when beating the crap out of Detroit (in 2015) or Baltimore (in 2021) in a regular season game, and not as they looked from pumping stats in such games, but as they looked with October 1st the middle point of some range.

Who is Vlad Guerrero Jr. ? Who is Robbie Ray ? Who is Marcus Stroman? Who is Chris Collabello ? Who is Ryan Goins ? Who was Tulo on October 1st 2015? Who was Kevin Pillar? Teoscar Hernandez?

Who were these people?

I think it is a mistake to evaluate them just on how they looked going backwards from October 1st with arbitrary window of 6 months, but more who they really are on that day evaluated based on career arc with nearest games weighted more (both nearby past and future games).

So Just because Guerrero, Teoscar, Springer, Bautista, Colabello, Goins, Pillar, and Revere played great sometime that summer, doesn't mean on October 1st 2015/October 1st 2021 they should be evaluated just by playing good that summer but by who they really were that day, some of which is reflected in how they played in 2022/2016.

Vlad said in March he wanted to bring back the home run jacket.

 

The Blue Jays killed the jacket before 2023 began. John Schneider said:

Yeah... Vlad's next team will have 20 nutrionists and 20 psychologists and 20 biomechanics experts and 5 fun experts.

Boston Red Sox/Altanta Braves 3 year Vlad Guerrero costs

20 nutrionists - 150k a year (with benefits) = 3 million

20 psychologists - 200k a year (with benefits) = 4 million

20 biomechnics experts - 175k a year (with benefits) = 3.5 miollion

5 fun experts - 100k a year (with benefits) = 500k

Vlad Guerrero Salary (coming off of being ruined by Jays) = 3 year 15 million.

cost support crew - 11 million

cost Vlad - 15 million

Total cost 26 million

Performance - 2 triple crowns and one near miss (.320 .410 .650 a year)

Happiness provided to Boston/Atlanta- massive happiness provided to community

Fun provided to Boston/Atlanta - very much fun and happy times.

It's clear that Atkins was able to surround the core with a pretty damn strong team, now the question is how much blame should be put on Atkins for not identifying a rotten core, or is there something he's done/doing that is the cause of the core rotting?

That is exactly it.

Vlad/Bo/Kirk/Manoah/Pearson it's something like

2021 - 17 WAR age=22.8 or something

2022 - 15 WAR age= 23.8

2023 - 4 WAR age=24.8

2024 - 0 WAR age = 25.8

You took a young group of players that were under 23 on average and 17 WAR and they turned to nothing... not sure if any team could survive this.

Like how is this even reality? Not just a losing season but destroying a generation of players somehow.

And all the while claiming you have started a 'high performance program' or some s***. Unbelievable. A baseball fiasco.

Commisioner should intervene and suspend the franchise. Distribute players to the functioning teams and hope they can get fixed.