jaysblue

Yeah this has been going on for the entire year with this group. Hopefully Atkins can shake things up this offseason. Not sure what he'll be able to do, but hopefully he could be creative.

The number of excuses that the homer brigade could use are dwindling. No more excuses such as "it's early" or "it's been a tough schedule." Hope we don't hear "Bo injury" excuses as a reason why this team fell short. If you criticized this team back in May/June for losing a winnable game, you were tarred and feathered. If you criticized the front office, same thing. If you said the softer part of the schedule won't be easy, you were laughed at. If this team fails to make the Postseason, it's a wasted opportunity especially with the solid starting pitching this year. It's not over yet, but this team needs to go on a run and soon!

I didn't like the excuses used earlier on in May/June on how the Jays had the most difficult schedule to explain their struggles at that time and that things get easier after the All-Star break, so nobody should worry. A lot of these teams aren't pushovers. I said that back in June and was laughed at by some.

2021 Berrios was good lol.

It's still early in the "easy part of the schedule" haha.

I think the Jays should definitely claim one of those BP arms. Moore or Lopez would be great fits. Also certain they could easily claim one of those bats - Bader, Grichuk, Renfroe - as well. We'll see who else is put on waivers. Teams with lower winning percentages who could be active claiming guys: Twins, Red Sox, Giants, Reds, Marlins and maybe the Padres.

Any shortstops available?

All-Star season in 2022!

5 win player.

If Chapman was out of shape like Vladdy and Kirk, this wouldn't have been an issue to begin with!

Yeah I hope Clement does get a chance as well and could contribute over these next couple of weeks until Bo gets back. Some players do struggle for a period of time right after they're traded. DeJong is a replacement level player and sucks but he was brutal during his time here (3 hits in 44 ABs).

There definitely could be. Weird how Atkins acquired DeJong at the trade deadline mainly for the purpose as insurance for Bo and then after two weeks gets DFA'd when you could have still kept him around and have Espinal join the roster again on September 1st. Hope someone in the media does ask him that question.

Bring John McDonald out of retirement!

A solid defender, a bat who has had success against lefties and who has some pop. Weird that the Blue Jays acquired him to begin with as insurance for Bo. Tells you how much confidence they had in Espinal a couple of weeks ago.

Yeah DeJong sucked, but he was nice depth to have around and they didn't have to DFA him given that Espinal had options and with expanded rosters just around the corner.

I know DeJong sucked with the bat in his short stint here, but he was a reliable defender and a streaky power hitter who is capable of getting hot for multiple weeks. They traded for DeJong at the trade deadline mainly as insurance in case Bo was out for an extended period of time. Bo comes back, DeJong is DFA'd, and then Bo goes back on the IL. Can't make this s*** up.

This really makes that Paul DeJong DFA last week hurt even more. Could have optioned Espinal and kept DeJong around. Not the greatest roster management by Atkins IMO.

The Jays could use his veteran presence!

It happens more in the NBA and Euro soccer leagues I think. Don't really hear it much in baseball but I'm sure some ML star players ask for trades. Halladay I recall probably asked for a trade in 2009 and after the season when AA took over, but it was a given the Jays weren't contending and were going to move him with only one season left under contract. If the Jays didn't trade Doc, he probably would have been disgruntled but would have still worked extremely hard since he would be pitching for a contract. A star player in the middle of their contract and years away from free agency probably would have a different attitude. I don't think the Jays will have that issue at all following this season, even if they miss the Postseason. The struggles in 2023 definitely should be blamed more on the players than the FO. Though the FO will still get some blame if this team misses the Postseason. Atkins and his team were the ones who put this roster together, so yes their player assessment was off, in this case 5 regulars of their starting 9, which is a lot. Springer is an aging and injury prone OF, Vlad regressed already offensively in 2022, Kirk was always out of shape and really only hit in May/June of 2022, Varsho did have some flaws offensively even before he was acquired and Jansen has always been fragile and streaky. Don't know what happened to Chapman after April, but tough to blame the FO on him for his struggles. Like you said, if 2 or 3 of those guys play up to expectation, the Jays are most likely in a better position. Regardless, some serious questions and decisions will have to be made for next season regarding some core players on the roster, especially if they miss the Postseason.

We really won't know who "won" the trade until a couple of years down the road. Moreno has had a strong second half in what has been a solid year considering its his first full season. He still has room to grow obviously but he could also never develop any power. Varsho has struggled heavily in the first half, though has turned the corner somewhat. He still has time to prove he could be a 4-5 WAR outfielder for this team in 2024 and 2025. LGJ's bat would have been nice considering the Jays offensive struggles, but he's likely just a 1.5 WAR left fielder for the D'Backs this season and leaves as a FA. No huge loss. It all comes down to what Moreno and Varsho both do long term.

Lmao easier said than done. Some players who don't want to be on a certain team and ask for a trade might not try their hardest after and be disgruntled etc. It's human nature. We see that across all sports, especially in the NBA. You wouldn't want those players in the clubhouse or on your roster for a long time. I don't think Gausman though will demand a trade this off-season and Jonn is probably overreacting about what he said in the media the other day. I do think however if the Jays underachieve again in 2024, you have to look at moving some key pieces including Gausman. But we're not at that point yet.

Weren't you and BTS both St. Louis Cardinals fanboys?

Yeah if Varsho can return to being a 4-5 WAR player in 2024 and 2025, I don't think many will be regretting the trade in the long run. He's definitely the X factor. Like you said, young CFs with control can be very expensive and difficult to acquire. We don't know the discussions the Jays had with the D'Backs and other teams regarding their catchers. So to say the Jays should have kept Moreno over Kirk is a moot point. Glad to see Moreno having success in the second half as well and hope the trade does work out for both teams - Arizona is one of the teams I like to follow in the NL. Also, I think Kirk can bounce back somewhat and be decent offensively in 2024 if he gets himself into better shape and rediscovers some of his power stroke. I'll take Gregg Zaun offensive output from Kirk everyday of the week, which I think he's capable of doing given his OBP skills. Add in his plus defending behind the plate, Kirk can be a solid overall player for the Jays moving forward.

You freak out way too much man and get all pissy when someone criticizes this team. I don't agree 100% with everything Jonn said. All he was saying is that the Jays should look at trading some valuable assets to replenish their system if they fail at making the Postseason. I don't think the Jays should trade off guys like Gausman or Bo after this season if they fail to make one of the WCs. I still think they have a window in 2024 and 2025 to make some noise with this group. This offseason will be very important. Reality is if the Jays fail to make the Postseason this year, you have to start asking serious questions about some core players and the front office. If the Jays underachieve again in 2024, and fail to sign Bo to an extension, you have to look at trading some key veteran pieces before they become FAs and lose them for nothing. Common sense. If this team doesn't succeed in 2024, what makes you think 2025 will be any different with this same core? If the Jays miss the Postseason in 2023 and start off poorly in 2024, Atkins is likely gone anyways.