John_Havok

Well, if you recall the year prior to 2015, there were all kinds of rumours that seemed to have validity that Rogers was courting replacements for Beeston (specifically Dan Duquette, then GM of the Orioles and Kenny Williams, then GM of the White Sox) for when his contract ran out at the end of 2014 and that did not go over well with either Beeston or AA. The scuttlebutt at the time was that the 1 year extension that Beeston signed was done almost begrudgingly and AA decided right then he wasn’t going to extend past 2015 when his deal expired. Before 2015 even started though it was announced that Beeston would be retiring at the end of 2015. Shapiro offered AA an extension, AA turned it down. AAs quotes on why he left: “For myself, my next expedition in baseball, my number one priority will be who can I learn from. Where could I go and just be exposed to some things that I haven’t and just improve and come out a lot better whether it’s two years or three years from now.” “Two, key people you want to work with that you respect that you get along with certainly would be important.” “The third part, role and things like that, I wouldn’t really concern myself with that. Dollars, role; that would really be last on the list.” “It would just be where can I get better, where can I learn, where can I have some fun … and the rest will just take care of itself.” I suppose depending on the lens, those quotes could be used to support either explanation, but it was clear AA no longer wanted to be in Toronto once Beeston was gone.

Moreno just obliterated Kersahw for a 3 run HR for a 5-0 lead in the top of the first, Kershaw hasn’t even got an out yet. Everything being hit hard.

I don’t see it that way, and one must keep n mind Atkins said plenty of other things relating to this topic that are only being reported partially. He did mention the org philosophy a couple of times. But the clickbait headlines that work best are “Atkins blames Schneider” because that gets clicks and will fit with people’s pre-determined dislike of Atkins. Atkins said it was Schneider’s decision, Schneider said it was his own decision. I see no reason to think either of them are lying based on what they said and short of sifting through hundreds of pages of detailed meeting reports (if those are even kept) between Schneider and his staff and Schneider and Atkins, taking it at face value is the only logical course of action. I’ve been studying up recently on body language and the language of lying, and it’s quite interesting when you ask someone questions and they give direct answers vs someone who deflects and declines to answer questions directly. Both Schneider and Atkins answered questions with direct answers and clear wording, nothing that would indicate either of them is not telling the truth. People in general though, I’ll always read not what they hear based on their own pre-determined opinions of the person. A quick and simple example of clear answers vs deflecting answers that may seem pretty close to the same. Question is put to someone about whether they cheated on their spouse. 1 says “No, I never cheated.” The other says “I absolutely deny those allegations.” Person #2 is far more likely to be lying. Person #1 issued a direct denial while person 2 did not. It seems like they are saying no they didn’t cheat, that’s not what they said, they are denying allegations, not the act of cheating. It’s not a perfect science of course and there’s always exceptions, and anyone who has an agent or publicist will be coached on these kinds of things before they put out a statement, but when you’re on a press conference and it’s just you answering questions on the spot, your brain doesn’t work fast enough to know the difference.

Side question though, when you gave direction to the Mexico guy, did you tell him point by point and task be task exactly what he had to do? Or just give him a directive and it was up to him to make decisions locally that fit the directive and then report why he made the decisions he made? and then he just f***ed up the decisions, didn’t get the results and blamed someone else?

Yeah for sure, but in this scenario, not everything can be true that people are bitching about. It can’t be a dictatorship where Atkins calls all the shots , but it also it can’t be completely hands off either. Chances are it’s exactly what I said in previous comments, Schneider is 100% responsible for his decisions in game, is provided all info from the nerd they think is relevant, and that general framework exists that is meant to help or guide Schneider, even though the ultimate decision on what to do in game is his.

What if they actually do play a passive role. Simply provide info and let Schneider make the decisions. What if the do the above, while at the same time providing a general framework? What’s more likely, the complete hands off approach, the middle approach stated above, or the complete dictatorship approach many seem to think exists?

What do you mean again?

It’s not, he also made other comments about organizational strategy that had been communicated to the players. Scenario 1 - Atkins comes out and says “yes I did it. I made the call, I made him do it” does that change anything even if not true? Not really. Then people would just be bitching about him and just hiring puppets and stuff. Scenario 2 - Atkins says exactly what he said, it was Schneiders call all the way, he doesn’t interfere beyond laying out a framework philosophy. In game decisions are Schneiders. Then people bitch that Atkins must be lying to try to save face. People just like bitching. Chances are Atkins told 100% truth. The only thing I would say to Atkins about his comments is that while he needs to make clear that Schneider makes the in game decisions, the club has a philosophy that Atkins put forth and that philosophy could definitely be a factor in Schneiders decision making process in that game, even though all decisions are still up to Schneider. After that, Schneider will have meeting with Atkins, Atkins will ask him why he made the call and his reasoning, and if the reasoning makes sense within the framework Atkins laid out, and Schneiders owns the decision (which he should) the only decision is whether you fire Schneider. Clearly that’s not the decision here as he’s already confirmed to be returning. Now, Atkins will have to have the same type of meeting with Shapiro and defend his org philosophy which resulted in what we saw play out, and what he will do to address the problems. And there’s really only two ways to go with that, either Atkins doubles down and says he fully believes in what he’s doing and here’s why he thinks the results will be different, or he adjusts and says yeah, it’s not working, that’s on me, here’s my new plan. Shapiro then ultimately decides whether or not to keep him and let him work on the new plan, or fire him and bring in someone else. None of this is really a newsflash to anyone remotely familiar with how large corporations are run so it’s weird that everyone sees this as Atkins “blaming” Schneider or throwing him under the bus.

That’s not really what he did, it’s a weird interpretation of what Atkins said. The entire quote from Atkins seems to be getting lost in all the fans’ whining

This is definitely one of those times where the actual words being said are technically true, but a s*** load of context and other factors are not being expressed. Example of course saying he was "surprised" by the Berrios pull and found out at the same time as fans. That's probably technically true as I'm sure Atkins himself didn't call up Schneider and tell him he had to do X. But he definitely created and implemented a system whereby Schneider felt that pulling him is what the system in place would call for in a do or die game.

Pearson is maybe half a point higher than a lottery ticket

To relay it to the bench, and have the bench relay to the catcher then to the pitcher through pitch comm in well under 20 seconds is pretty cool

His market won't develop near fast enough for him to truly weigh them against a QO. QO decisions come really early in the offseason

No to Dbacks and Orioles. Anyone else is fine but the Braves are the lowest on the fine list

Cimber and Espinal are both releases imo. Espinal won't be expensive but he is easily replaced by Clement. Richards should be traded as I think having so multiple "meh fastball/excellent changeup" guys isn't ideal, though it can also be beneficial if they never pitch on the same days. I just find that there's enough in house options and FA targets that he could be dealt to get something half decent back. And use the savings in conjunction with other savings to try and keep Hicks. The rest are no brainer keeps but some trade possibilities also exist

The biggest IF of them all, IF you can get max value. No idea who would be willing to pay that for Vlad.

Subject matter aside, are people like, incapable, of like, not saying like…like 15 like times like every sentence like?

The only Atkins that should be associated with this team over the winter is the name listed on the cover of the books given to Vlad and Kirk regarding their off season eating plans

90 wins isn't mediocrity. ...well at least it's upper level mediocrity bordering on low level well above avergae

Agree, but alot of those decisions are on Rivera. His errors in sending runners probably outweighs all the individual mistakes added together

Well if they do fire Schneider, I hear Buck Showalter is available.

Is Spencer and jfas still there? Pulling Berrios really feels like a jfas move to me.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/baserunning?sortColumn=team_name&sortDirection=asc Kirk sucks because he's fat and slow, he generally makes good decisions. VLad sucks because he's fat and slow and makes horrible decisions, some pay off, some dont. Positive value from advancing is at least some glimmer of hope that he can get better....maybe. Belt is just old and slow, makes good decisions Springer is still pretty good, i think he suffers from the occasional lapse but also being sent to die by Rivera. Espy is middle of the road. Brain cramps from aggression and he has gotten slower. Bo is the same as Espy, takes some dumb risks, but generally doesn't run himself off the bases alot (recent issues notwithstanding). Another guy who seems to get gunned at home alot being sent by the windmill 3b coach. Chappy is a pretty good baserunner but this year especially it seems like he started trying to do too much at times. Biggio - steady. Merrifield - excellent speed but made some really uncharacteristic mistakes this year getting thrown out way more than he should. KK - Jesus on the bases. he can do no wrong Varsho - Better than Jesus. Jansen - about average, always makes good choices, just limited by catcher speed and Rivera being stupid. Imagine where theyd be with LG (0 runs)over Varsho(+4) and Teo(-4) over KK(+3) right now, would be an all time low record for baserunning idiocy

Yeah, its not like Atkins is incapable of change either, for all we know he's already got the paperwork being processed to fire the hitting coaching staff and implement a new ideology of putting balls into the seats. Its not out of the realm of possibility that a GM can't make philosophical changes between seasons. Everyone has to answer to the people higher on the totem pole though so it will be interesting to see what happens in the offseason. Whether Atkins stays or goes will largely depend on how Shaprio feels about their post-mortem season meeting about what specific strategies Atkins has to fix things for next season. Its important to remember for people though that the lack of runs is not THE PROBLEM. Lack of runs is the result of the real problem which is a flawed hitting philosophy overall. Misdiagnosing symptoms as problems is how you make horrible corrective decisions.

I dont mean just the Jays though, even these examples in totality are a piss poor sample size overall, which leads back to my original point about remembering the bad over the good. I mean more of a playoff baseball overall, there's probably dozens of examples of early hooks that worked out fine. I am admittedly far too lazy to go look for them though.