Smokey

Not really but he does have a fairly limited ceiling and was clearly not ready. In case my point went over your head; none of the internal solutions could get Alex out of this mess. He does have a tendency to overreact to SSS but When it comes to the quality of this rotation, he has bigger problems than that.

What the f*** is going on in here? 6 years ago fatty promised us a young power rotation with swing and miss stuff and now 6 years later and 3 years after going all-in and you guys are busy arguing about which crappy prospect deserves a longer leash? Who f***ing cares? Clearly none of them are ready and as far as I've seen, none of them has a particularly high enough ceiling to be worth arguing over. As it stands the team doesn't have one front of the rotation starter, a struggling Hutch, a washed up Dickey and bunch of crap in 4-5 spots. So how does giving a longer leash to anyone suppose to change any of that?? Mind if I refer to you as Costanza from now on? Cause I really can't stand ya!

Fitting that this comes out as soon as Pillar starts establishing himself as an everyday player... AA is better off keeping his yap shut.

The ridiculousness had reached to a point where JPA was openly gloating on Twitter about AA promising not to trade him. And who could forget opening day and the decision to have JP catch Dickey when they had already allocated a roster spot to Thole (whose only purpose on the squad was to catch the knuckleball)... I think Arencibia had 7-8 passed balls in that game before they decided to scrap that idea... lol

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Trading Gomes or even d'Arnaud and going all-in with JPA as the primary catcher was a colossal mistake. You're right in the fact that most didn't see much value in Gomes, although his versatility was thought to be an asset by some, but pretty much everyone on this board not including Jimcannot, Saskjaysfan and theblujay knew by then that JPA wasn't good enough. AA however saw him as "his guy" and didn't even see a need for some competition or depth in that spot. The Gomes trade represents more than just a mis evaluation of Gomes talents but also a major mis evaluation of JP's talents which shouldn't be simply dismissed.

Things I've learned ITT; Participating in the HR contest accompanies great risk... Ichiro possesses "ridiculous power" (but only chooses to display it during batting practice)... Bautista is undeserving of being in the AS game... And that "using Latin" does not turn claims into "proven facts".

Pretty bare is an understatement considering that your only home-grown full-time position player is Kevin f***ing Pillar!

I know what you said. Drawing parallels with the Marlins trade just screams of a jaded fan though since there are very little similarities between the two teams. There does eventually come a point where it makes sense to apply some urgency to your approach and not let the opportunity pass you by and this is one of those moments (unlike the 2013 offseason). Besides, the sustainable talk has proven to be a bunch of hot air fed to us by this FO. They abandoned that approach and haven't even talked about it in years... At this point, after all the years of failure, they seem quite content in achieving some level of success before thinking about the sustainable aspect of it and I don't necessarily blame them for it.

At the time of the Marlins trade the Jays had JPA behind the plate and question marks at 2B, CF, LF and all over the rotation. That team wasn't even close to ready and there was no rationalization for taking on such contracts and then refusing to address other needs for two full years. Given where this team stands right now however, it would be completely illogical to be against improving the rotation because you desire a "sustainable winner".

Haven't made the playoffs in over 2 decades and have one of your best teams in years.... Time to plan for next year!

What's all this nonsense with staying the course?? Did you guys forget that the 2013 offseason changed all that?? I generally would be against making this type of a move but I think the situation clearly calls for it. AA is on the last year of his contract and has finally managed to assemble a pretty decent roster after declaring the team all-in almost 3 years ago. Personally I would have fired him right after the Dickey deal but he has somehow managed to have a great offseason and finally gotten the team close. Would you prefer him to sit on his hands at a time like this and ignore such an obvious need?

The popularity of your opinion doesn't make it any more valid! At the time many Jays fans reached for an answer as to why he chose to go that way... I was actually one of them but eventually I was able to take the blinders off and look at things more objectively instead of diluting myself with baseless speculations. There's nothing to suggest that AA was pushed into making the Dickey deal. He even rationalized the deal by declaring the team ready and claiming that Dickey was the piece that will get them over the top. Besides, I wouldn't say it was a complete 180. He did make that Happ trade a few months before and although not as impactful of a move, it did show some signs of a change in direction. And let's not forget about some of the mistakes he's made since then in failing to address glaring holes. He was basically good at collecting assets when there was no pressure and has pretty much chocked since attempting to go for it. I'm free to act however I like as long as it's within the rules. You're the one who's resorting to name calling simply because you can't handle a dose of the truth wrap around a bit of sarcasm.

Obviously I f***ing do you little f***ing s***!!!! I'm just kidding around nd was being mostly sarcastic before... But there is some truth however to the fact that if a mod wants to throw his weight around (hehe), he should at least first set a better example and gain some credibility before getting trigger happy.

It's really great to be able to count on an active mod to always be around and derail threads by drooling over food...

According to my sources he unleashed the "BEEST" and it led him to JD!

Do you have a shred of evidence to support this baseless claim?? Or do you prefer to stick your head in the sand and "disregard" reality every time the subject comes up?? Besides, based on that logic, how do we know that Beeston wasn't directing AA to make the Donaldson trade?? Yeah, I think I'll stick to that from now... AA loved Lawrie so much and would never trade a good Canadian boy without Beeston forcing his hand... Completely logical!

"We just feel like we're so close to contention that this is a deal that we needed to make... I think it comes down to how you evaluate R.A., and I think that's going to define the results of this trade for us... We evaluate him as a front-of-the-rotation starter... there's so much overwhelming data and evidence that points to him continuing to have success." -AA Here's the problem; Alex has been given every opportunity to succeed and we should be getting "there" now but unfortunately he couldn't stick to the plan and shot himself in the foot in the process. In a year where JPA was his primary catcher, had question marks at 2B, LF, CF and all over the rotation, he goes all-in targeting a 40 year-old as his "ace". It's funny cause when he first took over he emphasized the importance of having a young core of power arms in the rotation in order to compete in the AL East. He also claimed that building a 95+ win team was necessary to make the playoffs in this division and that he planned on building a team that not just contends but "can get to the WS and win it, and then sustain it year-in and year-out"... So here we are now six years later and Hutch is pretty much the only young pitcher with a full season of major league experience under his belt.. not to mention that Kevin f***ing Pillar is the only home grown full time position player on the team. Where are all the young high ceiling players that were suppose contribute to these 95+ win multiple championship teams?? I know it's hard to argue against most of his moves this year but unless he's able to significantly improve the rotation, he's basically failed 3 straight years since declaring the team ready for contention.

Holy f***ing s***. Take some deep breaths and get a hold of yourself man. You seem to enjoy taking things out of context and isolating things in order to reach a narrative. Yesterday I was simply arguing that this team needs some pitching help in order to have a realistic chance and you replied by saying the 87 Twins and the 93 Jays did it without pitching and even the 2012 Giants pitching was not great. Well, if you want to ignore the reliability factor and isolate the environment and defense in order to assess the true talent level of that staff, then be my guest. It doesn't change the fact that the number of innings thrown helped their BP stay fresh and with the help of their park and great defense they were able to get the job done. Having that rotation, regardless of how you assess them, would have been a significant improvement to what we have right now. The 2014 Jays, which I have no idea why you're bring up in this discussion, could have possibly achieved better results and were something like 10 games above .500 at points but chose not to address important needs, played some terrible defence and let the wheels fall off despite the emergence of Stroman. You're comparing apples and oranges here. The fact remains that this rotation is holding the team back and needs to be improved. We wouldn't be saying that right now if the 2012 version of Cain and Bumgarner were on this staff (despite all the help their numbers have received from the humongous park they play in).

Yeah, you're right. Having 5 starters throwing almost 1000 innings and putting up almost 12 WAR is totally the result of their ballpark... Glad you cleared that up for me.

Poor guy is losing his marbles. I'm still waiting for him to explain how he came to the conclusion that the 2012 Giants "did not have great pitching"...

Lmao... http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25224096/marco-estradas-on-a-roll-but-hes-still-marco-estrada

What?? Did I somehow indicate otherwise?? I'm just stating my opinion Jimmy. Sorry if that is rubbing you the wrong way but if you want to come here and say nonsense like this team "should be leading the AL" and that luck along with an injury to a guy who has thrown a total of 130 major league innings is the reason why Alex should be excused, then expect to get called out.

As I've mentioned before, results are all that matters at the end of the day. Try to wrap your head around this concept Jimmy. AA's career will be defined by how he chooses to improve this team and where the team finishes at the end of the season. The guy has been given every opportunity to succeed and so far the team has played exactly zero meaningful games in the 6 years he's been in charge.

Let's not act like Estrada is now suddenly irreplaceable though... Having a couple of great starts doesn't make you a superstar. He's still a back of a rotation type arm who wasn't even penciled into the rotation on opening day. Of course he's been valuable to the team but technically he's only putting up half the WAR total of Lind. I'm not saying it was a terrible trade but what the f*** is the point of bumping this thread now?

There's no point in fighting it anymore. Half your posts are in one way or another related to Wilner. You are obviously infatuated with the guy to the point that he's become firmly implanted inside your subconscious. Wilner will be inside you forever!