General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Brownie19]

Probably just cheaper to send them there.

 

At what point do teams simply want to put all their players and top prospects in the lab all winter to analyze and improve their players? I think it's pretty evident that Vlad would get a f***TON more value out of working with Driveline (or the Jays equivalent) all winter to fix his launch angle than just trying to launch home runs on the sandlot in DR with his buddies throwing BP to him and eating grandma's home cooking...

[King]

At what point do teams simply want to put all their players and top prospects in the lab all winter to analyze and improve their players? I think it's pretty evident that Vlad would get a f***TON more value out of working with Driveline (or the Jays equivalent) all winter to fix his launch angle than just trying to launch home runs on the sandlot in DR with his buddies throwing BP to him and eating grandma's home cooking...

They are humans and aren't baseball lab rats despite playing upwards of 200 games a year have families and other lives to live!

[Brownie19]

They are humans and aren't baseball lab rats despite playing upwards of 200 games a year have families and other lives to live!

 

Unless you're a teacher, the rest of us are expected to work year round and I too have a family.

 

For some of them, this better training could net them millions, upon millions more money (which is why some pay for it and go do it themselves). Do we think Orelvis is oblivious to the holes in his swing and doesn't realize that without fixing them, he may never make the majors or earn any real money? You think he's just like "f*** it - I need 5 months off this offseason to go spend time with my family". Or he thinks "I'll just do some at home workouts and have the boys toss me batting practice on the sandlot and I'm sure that will fix the problem?"

 

In the LONG history of baseball - it's never been easier for top athletes to identify and fix their flaws. I understand the season is a grind and I'm sure the high performance team would want to structure in rest for their bodies, but I don't think it's unrealistic for a team to expect them to spend portions of the offseason working to improve their game.

 

LA sent Mookie Betts - why isn't Toronto sending Vlad?

[John_Havok]

At what point do teams simply want to put all their players and top prospects in the lab all winter to analyze and improve their players? I think it's pretty evident that Vlad would get a f***TON more value out of working with Driveline (or the Jays equivalent) all winter to fix his launch angle than just trying to launch home runs on the sandlot in DR with his buddies throwing BP to him and eating grandma's home cooking...

 

You're not wrong. I think the player would have to want to go though since I dont think a team can dictate what a player does in the offseason. If Vlad doesnt want to go... can't really make him, just really try to convince him how it could help and hope he agrees.

[Brownie19]

You're not wrong. I think the player would have to want to go though since I dont think a team can dictate what a player does in the offseason. If Vlad doesnt want to go... can't really make him, just really try to convince him how it could help and hope he agrees.

 

I wonder if we'll see a day where this gets added to contracts and becomes the expectation. If teams want competitive advantages - here is an obvious one IMO.

 

I mean - most (all?) players do work out in the offseason anyway. They just do it privately in different settings with different people and I have to imagine that some of that offseason training is significantly more beneficial than others.

[John_Havok]

I wonder if we'll see a day where this gets added to contracts and becomes the expectation. If teams want competitive advantages - here is an obvious one IMO.

 

I dont think it could be added to contracts, contracts are only in place until the end of the regular season and resume again in Spring Training, where they do get paid, just not as their regular season rate. To be able to add mandatory Driveline or anything specific in the offseason, the whole structure of MLB contracts would have to be changed

[TheHurl]

 

First look at the kid before he comes and dominates in June.

 

Ugly as f***. Trade him now!

[TheHurl]

Unless you're a teacher, the rest of us are expected to work year round and I too have a family.

 

You get 70ish days off in 7.5 months. They get 22 (most of which are flying or doing promotional stuff for the team)

[Brownie19]

I dont think it could be added to contracts, contracts are only in place until the end of the regular season and resume again in Spring Training, where they do get paid, just not as their regular season rate. To be able to add mandatory Driveline or anything specific in the offseason, the whole structure of MLB contracts would have to be changed

 

That's true. I just find it all very bizarre. The only time players can make tangible improvements is typically the offseason. You can't change your bat path, arm path, etc. in-season. You're not going to change/improve foot speed, develop a new pitch or find efficiencies in your delivery mid-season. Players then go off and do whatever they want in the offseason with little to no monitoring or control by the team.

[Stangstag]

Ugly as f***. Trade him now!

 

Looks like average white dude to me

[Brownie19]

You get 70ish days off in 7.5 months. They get 22 (most of which are flying or doing promotional stuff for the team)

 

So give them 7 weeks off at the end of the season to make up for those 48 extra vacation days. Then back to work They also get paid a wee bit more than I do too...

[John_Havok]

That's true. I just find it all very bizarre. The only time players can make tangible improvements is typically the offseason. You can't change your bat path, arm path, etc. in-season. You're not going to change/improve foot speed, develop a new pitch or find efficiencies in your delivery mid-season. Players then go off and do whatever they want in the offseason with little to no monitoring or control by the team.

 

Oh I agree 100% that every player should be wanting to improve themselves in the offseason. I don't get why any player like Vlad who can see a gigantic problem like his ground ball rate and not think "Damn, maybe there's a way I can get back to getting the ball in the air more often in this offseason, and maybe it's not Grandma's pies that will do the trick..."

 

I'm sure most, if not all of them have a fairly consistent workout schedule and routine that is set up with input from the team with suggested dates to start certain things, especially pitchers. But you can only lead a horse to water.

[Brownie19]

Sorry - I'm stuck on this a bit.

 

Let's take Robbie Ray as an example. After the 2019 season - what happened? I assume they have exit interviews with each player and I think we'd assume in that meeting, they identify that control held Ray back this year. So he comes back in Spring 2020 with a drastically different/shorter arm path. Do we think the team suggested that's what he should try? Or did Ray and the people he trains with or whomever he met with that offseason simply decided a shorter arm path would improve his command? If it's the latter, does Ray call the Diamondbacks and explain his plan? Or does he just wing it? I mean the results were awful - so does the team just accept they have little to no control over what a player does in the offseason and accept that? or are they pissed that he did this? Maybe in this case, both Ray and the team were on board with the change and who was going to work with Ray to implement it.

 

And if all parties agreed to the changes - does this mean when the Jays do an exit interview and talk with Vlad about his launch angle and leading the league in double plays and how far he fell off last year - we think Vlad says piss on you guys - I don't care. I'm going back to the DR this offseason to eat Grandma's cooking, flip the odd tire and taking BP in the sandlot from one of my 17 brothers and that's going to prepare me for the 2023 season? If so - trade his ass. And if the Jays aren't raising these concerns and asking him to go to Driveline or the equivalent to fix it - then fire those in charge of that message.

[Brownie19]

Oh I agree 100% that every player should be wanting to improve themselves in the offseason. I don't get why any player like Vlad who can see a gigantic problem like his ground ball rate and not think "Damn, maybe there's a way I can get back to getting the ball in the air more often in this offseason, and maybe it's not Grandma's pies that will do the trick..."

 

I'm sure most, if not all of them have a fairly consistent workout schedule and routine that is set up with input from the team with suggested dates to start certain things, especially pitchers. But you can only lead a horse to water.

 

I guess so - but I just can't imagine in this multi billion dollar industry that the response of "oh well - we can only do so much - you can only lead a horse to water" is an acceptable answer.

[Spanky99]

Yusei Kikuchi is the pencilled in SP tomorrow. Game On!!!

 

Thompson, Thornton to follow.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Spanky99

[Jonn]

I don’t even know if I trust Kikuchi in a Spring game.

[John_Havok]

I guess so - but I just can't imagine in this multi billion dollar industry that the response of "oh well - we can only do so much - you can only lead a horse to water" is an acceptable answer.

 

I agree with you 100%, they just cannot mandate it due to limitations of the contracts. They have no "control" over off-season activities. All they can do is try to bludgeon him with what they see, what they know and what they think he should do to fix it. And really, we don't truly know that he's not working on certain things, just that he didn't go to Driveline.

[John_Havok]

I don’t even know if I trust Kikuchi in a Spring game.

 

heh

[The_DH]

Thompson, Chavez, Thornton to follow

 

Excuse my ignorance but who's Chavez?

[Spanky99]

I dont think it could be added to contracts, contracts are only in place until the end of the regular season and resume again in Spring Training, where they do get paid, just not as their regular season rate. To be able to add mandatory Driveline or anything specific in the offseason, the whole structure of MLB contracts would have to be changed

 

Not to mention players show up long before time to report anyhow, the PDC is a year round place for players. Just depends on their schedules in the off-season.

[Spanky99]

Wow, you guys are meatheads, players have been at camp since just after the New Year, they do get team feedback EOS to work on in the OS, everyone of them.

[Dick_Pole]

Playing sandlot with your childhood buddies is a lot more fun than training in an official capacity with people you don't know and who are trying to tell you a bunch of things. It comes down to personality. Some players are going to want to train seriously to improve their game during the off-season, others view it as fun or downtime. All a team can do is assess this behaviour and determine if they are willing to make a long-term commitment to the player in question. Jays can't really force anyone to do anything and can't be faulted for not doing whatever the Dodgers are doing.

[Dick_Pole]

I find it funny that people are surprised spring games start "already". Next week is March. What did you expect? Maybe it's because Southern Ontario has had three months of November that people's seasonal clocks aren't set right.

[Spanky99]

Excuse my ignorance but who's Chavez?

 

My bad... I read Wilner's article wrong. Just 3 guys mentioned.

[John_Havok]

[Jonn]

 

Yup.

[The_DH]

My bad... I read Wilner's article wrong. Just 3 guys mentioned.

 

That's cool. Thought we might have somebody else in camp. I'm guessing a whole lot of 1-2 innings each.

[kevb]

 

Kiermaier's seen many top pitching prospects from his TB days. Good sign.

[Spanky99]

 

Full piece...

 

DUNEDIN, Fla.—The Blue Jays played a pair of intra-squad games Thursday, and most eyes were on the kid on the mound on Field 1.

 

Left-hander Ricky Tiedemann, the Jays’ top prospect at 20 years old, faced big-leaguers Matt Chapman, Kevin Kiermaier and Whit Merrifield, all of whom came away impressed — especially the centre-fielder.

 

“Oh my gosh, wow,” marvelled Kiermaier. “Blown away, blown away. I wish I was his agent.

 

“I’m going to remember that name, and everyone else in the baseball world needs to as well. He’s going to be around for a long time and he’s going to be dominating. I can almost guarantee that right now.”

 

The former Tampa Bay Ray, who saw his share of dominant young pitchers roll through that organization, believes Tiedemann has everything it takes and more.

 

 

“A lefty throwing 97, 98 (miles per hour) with a couple of different breaking balls, nasty change-up,” said Kiermaier. “To me, he looked like he had four plus-plus pitches today. I’m all in on him. He’s a guy who could help us right now. With an arm like that, he could get very good professional hitters out over and over.”

 

“He looked like he belongs,” said Rob Brantly, the eight-year big-league veteran who caught Tiedemann. “Extremely poised, made quality pitches, was focusing on the present task at hand and that’s really what it takes. The guys who can do that the best are generally the most consistent, and he’s doing it at a young age. I’m excited to see what else he’s going to do in camp, especially when games get started.”

 

While his potential future teammates had trouble containing their excitement, the pitching coach was trying to turn down the hype machine a notch or two.

 

“Right now we’re not really focused on (Tiedemann being) the next big thing,” said Pete Walker. “I just want him to get through camp, get some exposure, be around the major-league guys, understand what it takes to win at the major-league level, picking the brains of (Kevin) Gausman and (José) Berríos and (Chris) Bassitt. Being around those guys is the most important thing right now. He has tremendous ability, we all know that, but he’s still got some work to do and we’re really excited about his future.”

 

[Spanky99]

That's cool. Thought we might have somebody else in camp. I'm guessing a whole lot of 1-2 innings each.

 

Yeah, pitch counts and a bunch of NRI guys, likely.