What if Santiago Espanal is Actually Good?

[John Balkabella]

Just woke up.

 

What was I thinking?

 

It was the Grand Marnier boys, don’t do Grand Marnier.

 

I got to say, my complexion is a little redder than usual.

 

Sorry, Laika, I was an idiot. Always been a cool dude.

 

Hopefully, I can make it up.

 

Let’s go Jays.

[Spanky99]

Let's get this thread back to where it was before Spanky derailed it.

 

You're not a mod, Jim, thank God!!!

[Jimcanuck]

Espinal with more power is massive given his flexibility.

 

WAR doesn't directly take into account position flexibility, but having an above average bat that can be pencilled in to any IF position and probably the corner OF positions in a pinch is a WAR bonus (+20%?). And all indications are he's a great teammate / clubhouse guy (+10%?).

 

His wrC+ is 99, with a .229 babip. His 15% above average bat in 2021 is probably accurate, maybe even a bit low.

 

Give this kid a 6 year contract now.

 

bump, discuss.

[Spanky99]

bump, discuss.

 

No, he don't need no extension, and where are you pulling out these arbitrary numbers, your ass?

[connorp]

Just woke up.

 

What was I thinking?

 

It was the Grand Marnier boys, don’t do Grand Marnier.

 

I got to say, my complexion is a little redder than usual.

 

Sorry, Laika, I was an idiot. Always been a cool dude.

 

Hopefully, I can make it up.

 

Let’s go Jays.

 

Any chance hogwz was your padawan?

[Jimcanuck]

No, he don't need no extension, and where are you pulling out these arbitrary numbers, your ass?

 

what arbitrary numbers? there is fangraphs data on there, and then a few estimates +20%? and +10%?. What do you take issue with?

[Deadpool]

bump, discuss.

 

He's not even arb eligible until 2024. I think it's a bit early, unless you can get him on something pretty absurd. Like, if he'd sign 6 years, $20M I'd do that.

[John_Havok]

He's not even arb eligible until 2024. I think it's a bit early, unless you can get him on something pretty absurd. Like, if he'd sign 6 years, $20M I'd do that.

 

Right now, Espinal has the 48th highest xwOBA is baseball.

[Deadpool]

Right now, Espinal has the 48th highest xwOBA is baseball.

 

Yeah, but there's no need to rush to signing him, unless you're getting a GREAT deal.

[max silver]

Just woke up.

 

What was I thinking?

 

It was the Grand Marnier boys, don’t do Grand Marnier.

 

I got to say, my complexion is a little redder than usual.

 

Sorry, Laika, I was an idiot. Always been a cool dude.

 

Hopefully, I can make it up.

 

Let’s go Jays.

 

Drunk posting is never a good idea (just ask Spanky!)

[Jimcanuck]

He's not even arb eligible until 2024. I think it's a bit early, unless you can get him on something pretty absurd. Like, if he'd sign 6 years, $20M I'd do that.

 

That's what I mean. Jays signed LGJ long term before he even played a MLB game - different circumstances I know. Nothing wrong with signing a guy like Espinal to 6/20 or something now, if you believe in the talent.

 

Espinal's floor is pretty solid. This isn't a Grichuk situation.

[max silver]

Right now, Espinal has the 48th highest xwOBA is baseball.

 

When you combine that with a guy that offers 90th percentile defence at both second base and third base and 86th percentile at short stop you have a guy that you might just want to keep long term.

[Spanky99]

what arbitrary numbers? there is fangraphs data on there, and then a few estimates +20%? and +10%?. What do you take issue with?

 

...

[Jimcanuck]

...

 

Those are estimates, as the "?" indicates.

 

What do you think the additional value of Espinal's positional flexibility is.

[Stangstag]

Wow this is some thread

[Jimcanuck]

Wow this is some thread

 

This is NOT like the Goins thread

[Spanky99]

Those are estimates, as the "?" indicates.

 

What do you think the additional value of Espinal's positional flexibility is.

 

No idea, thought that was/is calculated in WAR.

[Jimcanuck]

No idea, thought that was/is calculated in WAR.

 

Not it is not. There is a positional adjustment, that's a separate matter. I am talking about the value to a team when a player can be slotted in to different positions.

 

Zobrist was worth more than his calculated WAR totals due to the benefit to the team of his positional flexibility.

[Jays24]

Espinal is becoming the guy we had hoped Biggio could be lol.

[Spanky99]

 

Zobrist was worth more than his calculated WAR totals due to the benefit to the team of his positional flexibility.

 

So what is it worth? NVMD this is pointless, you pulled that out of your ass, as mentioned earlier... I'm not down for jcWAR calculations, thanks.

 

You're the Bill James of concrete, mate... don't forget it.

[Jonn]

Makes any Ramirez talk redundant..

 

He’s extended now so it doesn’t matter much. But these talks were never redundant lol. Espinal could end up being a good Second Baseman for us. But he will never be Jose Ramirez. Adding that quality of player to this team would have been insane.

[connorp]

So what is it worth? NVMD this is pointless, you pulled that out of your ass, as mentioned earlier... I'm not down for jcWAR calculations, thanks.

 

You're the Bill James of concrete, mate... don't forget it.

 

Way to keep the gate Spanky. Good job

[John Balkabella]

I have the power, unless this isn’t like other forums, to change the title to “ Can Santiago Espanal Stick””.

 

What say ye?

[Jimcanuck]

So what is it worth? NVMD this is pointless, you pulled that out of your ass, as mentioned earlier... I'm not down for jcWAR calculations, thanks.

 

You're the Bill James of concrete, mate... don't forget it.

 

Isn't this the purpose of a baseball discussion board. To debate the value of positional flexibility, for example? It could probably be reasonably calculated, in fact. No it is not pointless, it's a real, valid benefit a player brings to the team. And relevant to a discussion of Espinal.

 

If you aren't up for it, you can go back to sucking dick.

[John Balkabella]

He’s extended now so it doesn’t matter much. But these talks were never redundant lol. Espinal could end up being a good Second Baseman for us. But he will never be Jose Ramirez. Adding that quality of player to this team would have been insane.

 

As perhaps the prospect capital retained.

 

We’ll never know until some of these youngsters play.

[Signal]

Espinal looks to be good, well really good defensively. He did manage to hold down third base last year in a satisfactory manner but where he does shine is at 2nd. Last season, he batted over .300 but extra base hits far and few between. He seems to have worked on that and has added muscle. He now appears to be hitting the ball with the velocity that can give him doubles and HRs.

 

Espinal's soft hands have always been there. We have always seen him make the plays in the field. But this year, there seems to be another dimension to his hitting. He has proven valuable with some game winning RBIs this season. While I think it early, I do think there are enough indicators that can lead one to be hopeful that yes, he just might be the answer at 2nd. I will say this, with the addition of Chapman at third and pushing Espinal to 2nd - the infield defense is looking better than it has in some time. Once Bo gets going, Chapman finds his way and if Espinal continues to improve at the plate...with god playing first...Jays just may have something in their infield both defensively and offensively.

[John_Havok]

The thing in the Jays favour is that Espinal is exactly the kind of player they don't need to sign to an extension to cover his arb years, since the numbers he will put up will not be the kind that wins massive arbitration awards.

 

10-15 HR per year + good defense, a solid starter who likely puts up 2-4 WAR while getting paid nothing close to his actual on field value. He's the surplus value darling we will need to offset Vlad, Bo and others.

[John Balkabella]

I think your statement that Espanol managed to hold down third base last year was an eloquent understatement.

 

Of course, I am starting from Brooks Robinson World Series play. Best third baseman ever, defensively.

[Spanky99]

Isn't this the purpose of a baseball discussion board. To debate the value of positional flexibility, for example? It could probably be reasonably calculated, in fact. No it is not pointless, it's a real, valid benefit a player brings to the team. And relevant to a discussion of Espinal.

 

If you aren't up for it, you can go back to sucking dick.

 

Yeah, Jim's WAR...

[connorp]

Yeah, Jim's WAR...

 

Read the last sentence Spank. Take his advice