Unvaccinated Players

[Boxcar]

So they are venomous spiders?

 

Smart guy, this one

[Boxcar]

I believe I already gave yeah the congrats on the NFL thread, but Congrats if I hadn't, man.

 

I specifically said I didn't want to alter this thread. Thankful but I tried to bring it up very tangentially as an explanation for potential change in behaviour.

[John_Havok]

I specifically said I didn't want to alter this thread. Thankful but I tried to bring it up very tangentially as an explanation for potential change in behaviour.

 

Don't sell yourself short. Maybe you just changed because...people tend to do that as they get older.

[Boxcar]

I don't think the outdoors part is the issue, I assume it's the dugout/clubhouse. I wonder if some sort of accommodation can be made, like, maybe they have to show up at the stadium in their gear and can't go inside at all? I dunno, I'm not familiar with the specific wording of the law. Maybe I'm breaking our rules slightly by saying this, but even I don't see the value in restricting unvaccinated players from being ON the field.

 

The issue I don't quite understand is that the vaccine doesn't stop spread, whatever caveats I need to give on this are granted (it causes less spread, it stops serious infection, etc.) but bottom line, it doesn't prevent spread. So what does this policy actually accomplish? During the NFL season, Dion Dawkins got Covid twice while vaccinated.

[Spanky99]

Smart guy, this one

 

I caught that too, dammit!

[Boxcar]

I caught that too, dammit!

 

Fine, fine, you're smart too

[Spanky99]

Fine, fine, you're smart too

 

lol

[Deadpool]

The issue I don't quite understand is that the vaccine doesn't stop spread, whatever caveats I need to give on this are granted (it causes less spread, it stops serious infection, etc.) but bottom line, it doesn't prevent spread. So what does this policy actually accomplish? During the NFL season, Dion Dawkins got Covid twice while vaccinated.

 

Seatbelts and airbags don't prevent traffic fatalities, but they limit them... And this is all I'm going to say on the subject at this point because I'm already pretty sure this is opening a can of worms that is going to result in a bunch of deleted posts :/

[connorp]

Seatbelts and airbags don't prevent traffic fatalities, but they limit them... And this is all I'm going to say on the subject at this point because I'm already pretty sure this is opening a can of worms that is going to result in a bunch of deleted posts :/

 

Your Padawan training under Laila will then be complete

[Deadpool]

Your Padawan training under Laila will then be complete

 

I feel like I've been a mod here longer?

[connorp]

I feel like I've been a mod here longer?

 

Idk. That’s mostly his MO though

 

Fan the flames of the fire and then be like “come on guys”

[Jimcanuck]

public health officials are 1000x more likely to be right than any of us peons, so that’s who I follow

[connorp]

public health officials are 1000x more likely to be right than any of us peons, so that’s who I follow

 

It all depends on which state man. NY is one of the only (CA?) states with the policy, so should you just blindly listen to them when 48 or 49 states are doing something else?

[connorp]

Good god I’m happy to be out of NY. They’re business killers and it’s relevant bc they’re doing to same s***** thing with sports as everything else

[connorp]

public health officials are 1000x more likely to be right than any of us peons, so that’s who I follow

 

And honestly, what are they following? So in basketball or baseball you’ll allow 20-50k fans jam pack the stands unvaccinated, but Aaron Judge can’t play baseball lol

[L54]

And honestly, what are they following? So in basketball or baseball you’ll allow 20-50k fans jam pack the stands unvaccinated, but Aaron Judge can’t play baseball lol

 

The mental gymnastics to trust that Aaron Judge needs the vax to play RF but Joey from the Bronx doesn’t to enter the stadium is hard work

[L54]

The thing about seatbelts is I take them off when I’m done using them

[Boxcar]

Seatbelts and airbags don't prevent traffic fatalities, but they limit them... And this is all I'm going to say on the subject at this point because I'm already pretty sure this is opening a can of worms that is going to result in a bunch of deleted posts :/

 

Wouldn't testing be more effective and also not cause this shitstorm?

[connorp]

The mental gymnastics to trust that Aaron Judge needs the vax to play RF but Joey from the Bronx doesn’t to enter the stadium is hard work

 

If Kevin Durant is smart enough to see the logic fail, the average Joe should be

[hongsw84]

interesting.. if jays wont let them play.. better chance to beat yankees

[Dick_Pole]

I don't think the outdoors part is the issue, I assume it's the dugout/clubhouse. I wonder if some sort of accommodation can be made, like, maybe they have to show up at the stadium in their gear and can't go inside at all? I dunno, I'm not familiar with the specific wording of the law. Maybe I'm breaking our rules slightly by saying this, but even I don't see the value in restricting unvaccinated players from being ON the field.

 

As a Jays fan, I definitely see the value of keeping star Yankees off the field

[connorp]

So Rizzo and Judge now for NY? They must have the political inside scoop

[Deadpool]

Good god I’m happy to be out of NY. They’re business killers and it’s relevant bc they’re doing to same s***** thing with sports as everything else

 

Yeah, the Yankees are really dying. Damn that New York for killing the Yankees!

[HERPDERP]

Arroyo is now vaccinated, so that leaves Sale and JD Martinez

[Sammy225]

Arroyo is now vaccinated, so that leaves Sale and JD Martinez

 

If Sale sees the Right Handed heavy lineup he might think twice about coming up north lol

[connorp]

Yeah, the Yankees are really dying. Damn that New York for killing the Yankees!

 

Have you seen the stands at Yankee games? They just so happen to be so loaded it doesn’t matter. Many businesses aren’t so lucky

[John_Havok]

If Sale sees the Right Handed heavy lineup he might think twice about coming up north lol

 

Sale's already headed to the DL with a rib fracture. Too bad.

[jaysblue]

The issue I don't quite understand is that the vaccine doesn't stop spread, whatever caveats I need to give on this are granted (it causes less spread, it stops serious infection, etc.) but bottom line, it doesn't prevent spread. So what does this policy actually accomplish? During the NFL season, Dion Dawkins got Covid twice while vaccinated.

 

Taking a neutral stance here and hope it doesn't come off as too political. Most people I know who got COVID were double or triple vaxxed. Some of my family members who are triple jabbed caught and spread COVID amongst each other. The vaccine doesn't prevent the spread of COVID so a lot of these policies in place don't make much sense. Again, I couldn't care if people or players are vaxxed or unvaxxed and I'm not taking a side on either. It's their own personal choice. But from what we have seen this past winter, anyone can catch and spread COVID.

 

An athlete like Aaron Judge, who is healthy and in fantastic shape is at zero risk essentially. Like is he a threat or danger to all the other players on the field and in the clubhouse? How about those vaxxed players who after the game go out to bars and for dinner, etc.? Aren't they interacting amongst unvaxxed individuals outside of the ballpark? Again, not taking a pro stance for either side, but these policies just don't make sense.

[jaysblue]

As well, would like to add as a baseball fan in general, if I go to the Rogers Centre and pay to see a Yankees/Red Sox game or any team for that matter, I want to watch their best players compete. I understand the advantage the Jays would have against some of these teams if their best players aren't playing in a 3 game set against them. At the end of the day as a baseball fan, I want to see the best players on the field at all times whenever possible.

[Laika]

Vaccines do reduce the spread of Covid.

 

100% prevention is just not in the cards unfortunately. Not without like, 95%+ vaccination rates and stronger vaccines.

 

But getting vaccinated reduces your chances of contracting a serious case of the disease and it helps you reduce viral load quicker. Both of those things make it less likely you will spread the disease.

 

Now, vaccinated people can be less risk averse which would of course increase their chances of spreading disease. So there are some competing factors depending on the specific people and their practices.

 

So when something like a sports league, or a big institution, is designing policies they can't create something that is swiss cheese with all of these different applications based on a million different facts. Like, it's just not sensible and reasonable for them to not have a vaccination policy at all just because Aaron Judge is healthy and in fantastic shape. They have to take the safe course of action. It's reasonable to think that vaccines reduce the spread of the disease for the above reasons. It's reasonable to have policies that require everyone to be vaccinated.

 

From a policy perspective it's probably not a good idea to approach analysis with anecdotal reasoning. It's not logically sound to try to tear down a sensible policy for a large institution just because you can point to some anecdotes of fully vaccinated people catching Covid or spreading it. You need to approach these things with BROAD first principles. Which are something like:

 

- Vaccines reduce viral severity

- Vaccines reduce the chance to spread the disease

 

If your argument against vaccine policies in MLB / Canada starts with "but the vaccine does not prevent Covid" or "but the vaccine does not 100% prevent the transmission of Covid" you're starting from an illegitimate premise.

 

Even if the policy has the direct effect of say a 20% reduction on transmission within the institution the policy probably makes a lot of sense! good policy