2021 Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion Thread

[John_Havok]

I think most see it as rich people arguing with rich people. Most just look at the 'top' players making millions of dollars a year to live out their childhood dream and can't comprehend how they could complain and strike in that situation. To be honest - that's true. Even the minimum contract players make more in a year than most do in 10-15 years at their careers, so it's hard for the general public to relate and sympathize with them.

 

Of course the reality is the Owners typically all make hand over fist also - but their numbers aren't truly public (and if they are, it's all skewed and doesn't really reflect the profit they made) and the general public just doesn't relate to them like they do the players.

 

I don't think that makes people stupid - perhaps just a little short sighted.

 

The exploitation of minor league players is REALLY something the general public could relate to and support. That's something that really pisses me off and I wish there was a way to fix that. And of course, as a fan, I'd love to see a world where neither the owners or the players become become quite as rich so they could lower the price to attend games so the average joe and his family could attend more often.

 

It really is all about the dollar signs. For the most part, people can definitely relate to not getting paid their fair share when they see their company or workplace being highly sucessful, but they just consider themselves lucky to be employed and the fact that the dollar figures for the players are so much more than they make, its like they think the players should just be happy to get what they get just because it's more than what they make.

 

It's hard to put yourself in the players mindset for sure because of the actual dollars, but if they had all the info, I think they'd feel differently. The basics of "The employee's wages are getting lower, while the owner's profits are getting higher..." is still valid, no matter what the actual dollars are.

[Dick_Pole]

Am I the only one who is not particularly disturbed over low MiLB player salaries? It's no different than people waiting tables in Hollywood and taking bit roles in hopes of making it big. It's a trade-off. Very low salary now for the very small percentage of getting a large salary down the road. It's not the owners' fault there are people willing to take this trade-off. Even if it's probably a smart idea from a player development perspective to treat them as human beings.

 

If a bunch of low level players gave themselves a reality check and said "okay I'm not doing this because my chances of making it is nil", the supply of MiLB players would drastically decline. Then owners would have no choice but to increase salaries to lure some back. Simple shift in the supply-demand curve.

 

Rather than trying to suckle MLB's teat, these type of players should try their luck at independent or semi-pro ball. Get some Sportbooks or something to sponsor them. Hell, make Pete Rose the face of the league and have them play at modified horse racing tracks if need be. There are enough degenerate gamblers out there who absolutely would support something like this.

[Abomination]

Am I the only one who is not particularly disturbed over low MiLB player salaries? It's no different than people waiting tables in Hollywood and taking bit roles in hopes of making it big. It's a trade-off. Very low salary now for the very small percentage of getting a large salary down the road. It's not the owners' fault there are people willing to take this trade-off. Even if it's probably a smart idea from a player development perspective to treat them as human beings.

 

If a bunch of low level players gave themselves a reality check and said "okay I'm not doing this because my chances of making it is nil", the supply of MiLB players would drastically decline. Then owners would have no choice but to increase salaries to lure some back. Simple shift in the supply-demand curve.

 

Rather than trying to suckle MLB's teat, these type of players should try their luck at independent or semi-pro ball. Get some Sportbooks or something to sponsor them. Hell, make Pete Rose the face of the league and have them play at modified horse racing tracks if need be. There are enough degenerate gamblers out there who absolutely would support something like this.

 

The players in the full season minors are putting in full-time hours and are basically only being paid for their time actually playing on the field during a game. Hollywood is different because it's basically gigs. Players don't have the freedom to pick which team they want to play for or "audition" for many different roles.

 

I DO think it was brilliant for the Jays to increase the pay for their minor leaguers voluntarily though. I bet that will incentivize a lot of guys in the international draft who don't get the big bonuses to choose the Jays over other teams, not to mention allowing their players more time each day to develop their baseball skills rather than working additional jobs.

[Jimcanuck]

If a bunch of low level players gave themselves a reality check and said "okay I'm not doing this because my chances of making it is nil", the supply of MiLB players would drastically decline.

 

This will never happen, anyway. These are teenagers and, mostly, kids in their early 20's. I'm sure their thinking is, "give it a try, if it doesn't work, I've got lots of time to move on to something else".

 

Also I expect MiLB is treated as a separate business venture from MLB, and the financial considerations are separate. And the revenue in MiLB is relative peanuts. The recent downsizing of MiLB was likely based on financial considerations - improve margins, reduce number of teams operating at a loss or breaking even. All this is just to say, there is little rationale for increasing MiLB player payroll.

[John_Havok]

 

If a bunch of low level players gave themselves a reality check and said "okay I'm not doing this because my chances of making it is nil", the supply of MiLB players would drastically decline. Then owners would have no choice but to increase salaries to lure some back. Simple shift in the supply-demand curve.

 

 

THis wouldnt happen at all. You'd just see them replaced within the next 10 minutes with the next poor schlub willing to play for peanuts.

 

THe whole reason the MILB players get stiffed is because some idiots on the supreme court decided they shouldnt be subject to the Sherman Antitrust act because MILB didnt qualify as interstate commerce, so the system of getting screwed has just become the expected norm for the past 100 years.

 

Its important to note that no other sport has been granted this exemption except MILB

[Grant77]

No counter offer from MLB. They will now look to a Federal mediator to resolve their dispute.

 

It's quite a bad look for the owners that they aren't willing to negotiate, but this could get the season started on time.

[Ehjays]

[Ehjays]

[Jimcanuck]

Well, f***ity f***! Colour me pessimistic

[Spanky99]

Yeah, this isn't good, MLB can get f***ed.

[John_Havok]

No counter offer from MLB. They will now look to a Federal mediator to resolve their dispute.

 

It's quite a bad look for the owners that they aren't willing to negotiate, but this could get the season started on time.

 

It's a terrible look for the owners, its just another optics play for the court of public opinion. They're counting on this looking like a sincere effort to get a deal done, when the reality is they know the players won't want a mediator because the mediator would likely recommend far more concessions than they want to give like the mediator did in 1994. THey kicked him to the curb then, and don't want to repeat that process.

 

Many forget that the strike only ended in 1994 when a judge ordered the previous CBA be reinstated. A new CBA agreement wasn't actually reached until 1997.

 

Current acting driector of the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service is Gregory Goldstein since the Senate didn't confirm Biden's nominee.

 

From his bio - Goldstein is a career member of the Senior Executive Service and has served as the Chief Operating Officer for FMCS since 2018. Ramirez began his FMCS career as a Commissioner in 2005 and is currently the Executive Manager of the Division of Agency Initiatives. He has mediated disputes in almost all sectors of the American economy, including multi-party disputes in manufacturing, construction, and education.

[BTS]

We'd normally be three weeks from spring training baseball. I hate these pathetic losers.

[Stangstag]

We'd normally be three weeks from spring training baseball. I hate these pathetic losers.

 

Probably closer to 3 months from spring training at this point

[P2F]

We'd normally be three weeks from spring training baseball. I hate these pathetic losers.

 

Yeah, it's honestly really hard to remain a fan throughout this ********. I find myself trying my best to not really think too deeply about the lockout and hope these stupid f***s resolve their differences before it runs into the season.

[Deadpool]

OutOfThePark Lockout Simulator 2022 should be dropping soon...

[Abomination]

It's a terrible look for the owners, its just another optics play for the court of public opinion. They're counting on this looking like a sincere effort to get a deal done, when the reality is they know the players won't want a mediator because the mediator would likely recommend far more concessions than they want to give like the mediator did in 1994. THey kicked him to the curb then, and don't want to repeat that process.

 

Many forget that the strike only ended in 1994 when a judge ordered the previous CBA be reinstated. A new CBA agreement wasn't actually reached until 1997.

 

Current acting driector of the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service is Gregory Goldstein since the Senate didn't confirm Biden's nominee.

 

From his bio - Goldstein is a career member of the Senior Executive Service and has served as the Chief Operating Officer for FMCS since 2018. Ramirez began his FMCS career as a Commissioner in 2005 and is currently the Executive Manager of the Division of Agency Initiatives. He has mediated disputes in almost all sectors of the American economy, including multi-party disputes in manufacturing, construction, and education.

 

I honestly don't think most of the general public gives a rats ass about it right now, or even know it's happening. They're not going to care who is at fault because ultimately it changes nothing.

 

As for a mediator, if you have someone with experience in brokering supposedly fair resolutions to disputes across all sectors and interests and you aren't willing to let him try because you might have to make concessions, then the problem is probably you. I don't think it's a bad look for the owners at all.

[John_Havok]

I honestly don't think most of the general public gives a rats ass about it right now, or even know it's happening. They're not going to care who is at fault because ultimately it changes nothing.

 

As for a mediator, if you have someone with experience in brokering supposedly fair resolutions to disputes across all sectors and interests and you aren't willing to let him try because you might have to make concessions, then the problem is probably you. I don't think it's a bad look for the owners at all.

 

Persepctive I guess. Whats fair to the players when they;ve been getting smoked by the owners is every CBA since 1994 is probably different than what's fair to the owners, who have been doing the smoking.

 

If fair agreements had been happening since then, the 2 parties likely wouldnt be where they are today.

[AdamGreenwood]

I honestly don't think most of the general public gives a rats ass about it right now, or even know it's happening. They're not going to care who is at fault because ultimately it changes nothing.

 

As for a mediator, if you have someone with experience in brokering supposedly fair resolutions to disputes across all sectors and interests and you aren't willing to let him try because you might have to make concessions, then the problem is probably you. I don't think it's a bad look for the owners at all.

 

I agree. Not a terrible look at all.

 

MLB is saying: 'We're far apart and we don't think you are being reasonable. Let's bring a neutral third party in to help find middle ground'.

Union is saying: 'We don't want a neutral third party. We tried that once, 36 years ago, and it didn't work then, so why would it work now".

 

Apparently, for the MLBPA, a sample size of one is enough.

[connorp]

Persepctive I guess. Whats fair to the players when they;ve been getting smoked by the owners is every CBA since 1994 is probably different than what's fair to the owners, who have been doing the smoking.

 

If fair agreements had been happening since then, the 2 parties likely wouldnt be where they are today.

 

If only CBA agreements worked like this. On the other side of things, I’m currently in negotiating process with union of large hotel. The CBA is absolutely horrible in favor of the union. It’d be great to say “hey, the old CBAs are awful and previous management shouldn’t have signed them. So let’s forget about those and figure out what’s fair from scratch”. If only bro

[John_Havok]

If only CBA agreements worked like this. On the other side of things, I’m currently in negotiating process with union of large hotel. The CBA is absolutely horrible in favor of the union. It’d be great to say “hey, the old CBAs are awful and previous management shouldn’t have signed them. So let’s forget about those and figure out what’s fair from scratch”. If only bro

 

Of course, but like I said. its all about perspective.

[Ehjays]

[John_Havok]

 

Only the lockout is currently preventing spring training from moving forward.

 

Kind of an important word to have been left out. If the owners ended the lockout, there's no guarantee the player's wouldnt strike.

[connorp]

 

How do you not preclude the start of ST while also preventing it from opening?

[John_Havok]

How do you not preclude the start of ST while also preventing it from opening?

 

That's his point. The MLB statement is worded so that it puts the blame on the PA for Spring Training not opening on time, when the only thing currently stopping it is the lockout, which is 100% on the ownership group.

[connorp]

So if there was no lockout/strike, they would simply work off the old CBA?

[Abomination]

Only the lockout is currently preventing spring training from moving forward.

 

Kind of an important word to have been left out. If the owners ended the lockout, there's no guarantee the player's wouldnt strike.

 

More to the point, there's no guarantee the players wouldn't play some or even most of the season and THEN strike. It would put the owners in a horrible position where they'd likely have to honor and cover all non-player related contracts, including stadium and broadcast ones.

[saskjayfan]

 

Selecting a post pandemic payroll year. The average payroll is 114 mil for 2022 with several big named free agents left to sign. It will push up to 125ish. Sports franchises are like Art to the rich. Their value isn't 100% correlated to the business and profitability. Those 2 values are highly subjective values as well.

 

The industry which relies heavily on TV revenues is facing TV revenues that will come under pressure in the world of streaming. The unprecedented growth of TV revenue growth over the last 15 years will not be replicated in the future.

 

I can't see this getting resolved anytime soon. June baseball at the earliest. An entire season lost is not an entirely unrealistic proposition for me.

[TheHurl]

MLB owners have $752M floor value if they sell their shares in Disney Streaming Services in 2022. It's going to be a hard year on them.

[saskjayfan]

MLB owners have $752M floor value if they sell their shares in Disney Streaming Services in 2022. It's going to be a hard year on them.

 

25 mil per team. That won't even cover the luxury tax bill for the Mets.

[TheHurl]

25 mil per team. That won't even cover the luxury tax bill for the Mets.

 

You don't have a luxury tax if there is no season.