Rogers Centre - Big Plans?

[connorp]

Construction jobs alone would be well into 9 figures. And you’re minimizing the local impact but to each their own. I know you’ve got the fiscal conservative thing going on

[Jimcanuck]

And many of those would be not in Toronto. There’s an argument for the City to chip in, depending on the proposal. There might even be a weaker argument for the Province to help.

 

But personally if Toronto had a better stadium I would go to many more games. I’m not doing anything alternative right now so it would be strictly additional economic activity.

 

Yes there would be an argument for Toronto to invest. The city would realize a return on the investment.

[Jimcanuck]

Construction jobs alone would be well into 9 figures. And you’re minimizing the local impact but to each their own. I know you’ve got the fiscal conservative thing going on

 

Right, but again, but if the tax dollars are not spent on a new stadium, or people spend their money on other options, that too generates employment, etc and contributes to the "speed of money" or the rate at which money changes hands. If the tax dollars are not allocated to a new stadium, it gets allocated to say, roads and sewer construction which also generates employment, etc. And I would say there is a greater public benefit using the money to renew roads and sewers then there is from a new stadium to replace the Rogers Centre.

[connorp]

But the money would be spent, right, generating economic activity?

 

Jesus Jim. What if he pays more on his credit card or buys a few video games off Amazon?

[Jimcanuck]

Jesus Jim. What if he pays more on his credit card or buys a few video games off Amazon?

 

What difference does it make. Amazon employs thousands of Canadians. And there are about 100 companies involved in video game programming in Canada.

[Laika]

But the money would be spent, right, generating economic activity?

 

Not for me. For many people the money they would spend on a trip to Toronto is disposable income that they would just not dispose of at all if a baseball trip didn’t seem worth it.

[connorp]

Right, but again, but if the tax dollars are not spent on a new stadium, or people spend their money on other options, that too generates employment, etc and contributes to the "speed of money" or the rate at which money changes hands. If the tax dollars are not allocated to a new stadium, it gets allocated to say, roads and sewer construction which also generates employment, etc. And I would say there is a greater public benefit using the money to renew roads and sewers then there is from a new stadium to replace the Rogers Centre.

 

Well, the stadium has a multiplier effect that those other options don’t. Anyways, I guess your stance that is if one area suffers, another thrives. Like I never make it to the downtown area of where I live but if I spend my money where I am, there’s economic benefit to that and I agree with that. So we found some common ground. Those local restaurants downtown near me will probably close if there’s a lot more people like me but somewhere else will benefit for sure if I’m still spending

[Jimcanuck]

Well, the stadium has a multiplier effect that those other options don’t. Anyways, I guess your stance that is if one area suffers, another thrives. Like I never make it to the downtown area of where I live but if I spend my money where I am, there’s economic benefit to that and I agree with that. So we found some common ground. Those local restaurants downtown near me will probably close if there’s a lot more people like me but somewhere else will benefit for sure if I’m still spending

 

Actually there is a multiplier effect from road construction. The workers are usually local and the materials etc are locally sourced to minimize transport costs. It results in a significant influx of cash into the local community, and the new improved roads generate business investment in the area.

 

Anyway, if a new stadium is economically viable, Rogers will build it. If it is only viable with millions of free tax money thrown in, forget it. Spend those tax millions on other things for public benefit instead of for Rogers Corp benefit.

 

Historically using tax dollars for sports stadiums has generally been a f***ing boondoggle.

[connorp]

Are you against lucrative tax breaks/incentives too, or just fronting them cash to build?

[Jimcanuck]

Are you against lucrative tax breaks/incentives too, or just fronting them cash to build?

 

There already are tax incentives for business investment. There shouldn't be anything additional given to Rogers. Keep the playing field level and all that.

[TheHurl]

what if the stadium is open for public use on off days...that worked well for BMO Field.

[saskjayfan]

Actually there is a multiplier effect from road construction. The workers are usually local and the materials etc are locally sourced to minimize transport costs. It results in a significant influx of cash into the local community, and the new improved roads generate business investment in the area.

 

Anyway, if a new stadium is economically viable, Rogers will build it. If it is only viable with millions of free tax money thrown in, forget it. Spend those tax millions on other things for public benefit instead of for Rogers Corp benefit.

 

Historically using tax dollars for sports stadiums has generally been a f***ing boondoggle.

 

I don't get the whole economic for stadiums. If they don't make money, which they don't we can't have them. We have them because they are fantastic facilities to use. There's a cost to owning nice things. I think municipal and provincial governments should provide funding. The people they represent will get to use the facility. Federal government's should stay out of it.

 

I don't care if Mosaic makes any economic sense? I don't because every time I go there I absolutely love my experience. Whatever the tax paying cost it was worth it to me. We spent a crap ton of money on an art gallery in out city and I will never go to. I have no problem because many people will go and enjoy the gallery. The gallery will never make money, but it's a fantastic facility that many will enjoy so it's worth the expense.

[AdamGreenwood]

Not really following why Rogers wants to do this.

They don't own the land, so I don't think they get any of the money from the condos. Why are they even involved in deciding what to do with the land underneath. If the RC isn't there, shouldn't the company who actually owns the land decide what happens?

 

Or is Rogers basically saying they'll give it back to them, if they share the profit. So they got a sweetheart deal and got the RC for nothing, and now are essentially selling the use of the land for a massive profit?

 

Something doesn't add up.

 

I guess it's possible that they just want a smaller stadium to provide a better vibe, and lower maintenance costs, but honestly, attendance has never really been a problem. And reducing it to a 25,000 capacity stadium seems really short-sighted.

[Laika]

Not really following why Rogers wants to do this.

They don't own the land, so I don't think they get any of the money from the condos. Why are they even involved in deciding what to do with the land underneath. If the RC isn't there, shouldn't the company who actually owns the land decide what happens?

 

Or is Rogers basically saying they'll give it back to them, if they share the profit. So they got a sweetheart deal and got the RC for nothing, and now are essentially selling the use of the land for a massive profit?

 

Something doesn't add up.

 

I guess it's possible that they just want a smaller stadium to provide a better vibe, and lower maintenance costs, but honestly, attendance has never really been a problem. And reducing it to a 25,000 capacity stadium seems really short-sighted.

 

They want a new stadium and they don’t want to pay for the whole thing. They know public money won’t be there this time. But there is lots of private money to build condos in Toronto. Private builders team up to fund most of the project and pay for most of the new stadium in the process. Rogers holds a long term lease for the land to use it as an entertainment venue and they pay for some part of the stadium and also agree to amend to lease to bring in all these condo parties. The city just has to agree to the development and new usage and to amend the lease.

[Spanky99]

They dont have tailgating at RC

 

They do have entertainment and drinking areas outside the RC, when's the last time you've been to a game?

[Spanky99]

Lol. Try to tell Spanky there’s no tailgating anywhere

 

If you mean 1-man tailgating parties, then yes.

 

Easy for Spanky too, he's been social distancing since high school

 

Trip in traffic, you f***ing retards.

[Spanky99]

If sask and it’s 1.1 million people can fund a 320 mil stadium without a dime from the feds then Ontario and it’s 14.5 million population should be able to fund an 800 to 1 billion dollar stadium.

 

Not a cent is coming from tax payers money, relax.

[saskjayfan]

Not a cent is coming from tax payers money, relax.

 

I have no problem with tax payer money coming in. It should just be from the city and the province. The people who pay those taxes largely reap the benefit. The question is need. Is a 31 year stadium really in need of replacing? That's for Rogers and the tax payers of Toronto to decide.

[Spanky99]

I have no problem with tax payer money coming in. It should just be from the city and the province. The people who pay those taxes largely reap the benefit. The question is need. Is a 31 year stadium really in need of replacing? That's for Rogers and the tax payers of Toronto to decide.

 

And I'm telling you not a cent of fed tax is involved.

[connorp]

I have no problem with tax payer money coming in. It should just be from the city and the province. The people who pay those taxes largely reap the benefit. The question is need. Is a 31 year stadium really in need of replacing? That's for Rogers and the tax payers of Toronto to decide.

 

Well, at least the stadium sucks for watching a game of baseball by all objective accounts, as it routinely scores at the bottom of any list. I went to Texas a couple times, once during the last season there. Didn’t really see a need to rip that one down

[saskjayfan]

And I'm telling you not a cent of fed tax is involved.

 

It's a hypothetical endeavor at this point. Nothing has been announced. Colour me skeptical about your knowledge of what the funding will look like for a stadium that may not be announced for several years.

[Spanky99]

It's a hypothetical endeavor at this point. Nothing has been announced. Colour me skeptical about your knowledge of what the funding will look like for a stadium that may not be announced for several years.

 

Well it was from the horses mouth(Shapiro) to Davidi, you're the one sweating it and posting in here. The money is coming in via private investors. As Laika posted above. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[RobinThicc]

Its going to be privately funded because they'll make a ton off those buildings they want to put up. Tax money going towards this isnt a concern, if this plan were to get approved.

 

I just dont see why the land owners would agree to just let rogers and brookfield put up these condo's on their land and not get any money from it.

[RobinThicc]

Well, at least the stadium sucks for watching a game of baseball by all objective accounts, as it routinely scores at the bottom of any list. I went to Texas a couple times, once during the last season there. Didn’t really see a need to rip that one down

 

Cause its Texas and there was no roof lol

[Ex Player]

They do have entertainment and drinking areas outside the RC, when's the last time you've been to a game?

You might wanna look up the definition of "tailgating"

[Spanky99]

You might wanna look up the definition of "tailgating"

 

I was replying to this... tailgating isn't legal here, meat.

 

have people sell cocktails and beers in plastic cups and walk around in certain "entertainment" areas..

 

The Jays do this. ^^^^

[Carlos Danger]

I was replying to this... tailgating isn't legal here, meat.

 

 

 

The Jays do this. ^^^^

 

Outside the stadium?

[Spanky99]

Outside the stadium?

 

Yeah, live bands, beer and liquor sales, stuff for kids... all that fun stuff. It's fenced in as you use your ticket to get in, but it's been that way for 2/3 years now.

[Ex Player]

The Jays do this. ^^^^

Thats not the same thing as tailgating.

 

And I think you mean Friday fan festivals, which of course is only on fridays (as the name suggests)

 

[GreekFatAss]

The reason for this is pretty simple.

 

In Accounting you are not allowed to revalue your assets at fair market value until the value is actually realised at the point of sale. Rogers spent $163 million on the blue Jays and $25 million on the Rogers center. That means they have a balance sheet value of $188 million on an asset Forbes values at $1.6 Billion. By building a new billion dollar stadium it allows Rogers to revalue the Blue Jays at far closer to the real value of the franchise and since it can amortize the expenses cost in depreciation over a long period of time (30 years) they get that money as an offset against revenues to lower their taxes on an appreciating asset value.

 

Rogers has all the incentive in the world to spend as much as it can on a new stadium if they are comfortable with the value of MLB teams continuing to rise, it would increase the share price to add a $1 billion asset in the books.

 

Should also add, Rogers only needs the government for land. The last thing they will want to do is give the government a reason to insist on design input where they will try to squeeze every penny out of trying to make it multi purpose when the Jays will want to keep it in their control so they don't need to compromise on their needs.