General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Krylian]

At what point will you guys hold Shatkins accountable for performance. Just agree on it now

 

Is it 2020, is it 2021

 

At some point, the cut off happens where you cant blame Rogers or AA anymore. Its not this year, and they suck. Are we also looking at 100 losses next year, sure sign me up. After that though, thats where it ends for me, then its gotta swing up.

 

I'm expecting a s*** season next year too. But I would expect them to at least be hovering around .500 by 2021.

[Grant77]

With Tulo retiring, are we still responsible for his 2020 salary? If so, releasing him was an awfully foolish move in hindsight.

[Jimcanuck]

With Tulo retiring, are we still responsible for his 2020 salary? If so, releasing him was an awfully foolish move in hindsight.

 

Releasing him opened up a 40 man spot. I'm sure Jays tried to move him with no takers. He was done over a year ago.

 

Don't know what else they could have done. Sunk cost.

[Grant77]

Releasing him opened up a 40 man spot. I'm sure Jays tried to move him with no takers. He was done over a year ago.

 

Don't know what else they could have done. Sunk cost.

 

A 40 man spot isn't worth the salary we are paying. In hindsight, the right move was undoubtedly to keep him.

[Abomination]

A 40 man spot isn't worth the salary we are paying. In hindsight, the right move was undoubtedly to keep him.

 

In this case, it is. He wouldn't have retired otherwise, and we'd be paying him AND he'd be taking up the 40 man spot.

[Grant77]

In this case, it is. He wouldn't have retired otherwise, and we'd be paying him AND he'd be taking up the 40 man spot.

 

We don't really know that. We have seen players give up money to retire. That's entirely speculation on your part.

[Abomination]

We don't really know that. We have seen players give up money to retire. That's entirely speculation on your part.

 

There's been what, one player who walked away from anything significant (from a ballplayer's perspective)? It's a pretty safe bet.

[BTS]

There's been what, one player who walked away from anything significant (from a ballplayer's perspective)? It's a pretty safe bet.

 

The only two cases I can think in the 20+ years I've been watching baseball of are Gil Meche and Ryan Dempster. But in both cases, the players were physically able to play and just didn't want to anymore.

 

I can't think of a single case where the player is hurt and forfeits significant cash instead of just spending time at home 're-habbing'. We don't know for sure that Tulo would have suck around for $18M, but we pretty much now for sure that Tulo would have stuck around for $18M. The retirement paperwork wouldn't have been signed now if it cost him money.

Edited July 26, 2019 by BTS

[Grant77]

There's been what, one player who walked away from anything significant (from a ballplayer's perspective)? It's a pretty safe bet.

 

More than that. Tulo has made plenty of money in his career and his obligations to the team paying him are far more than just sitting at home. All we know is that he did retire. Anything else is just speculation. Sure looks like we wasted some money.

[Jimcanuck]

More than that. Tulo has made plenty of money in his career and his obligations to the team paying him are far more than just sitting at home. All we know is that he did retire. Anything else is just speculation. Sure looks like we wasted some money.

 

The silly speculation is that if not released, Tulo would have retired and forfeited millions.

[Abomination]

More than that. Tulo has made plenty of money in his career and his obligations to the team paying him are far more than just sitting at home. All we know is that he did retire. Anything else is just speculation. Sure looks like we wasted some money.

 

Actually, obligations are a good point. If he was still rehabbing, we'd have to be paying for it. We did save money by paying him to go away.

[Grant77]

Actually, obligations are a good point. If he was still rehabbing, we'd have to be paying for it. We did save money by paying him to go away.

 

That kind of cost is negligible when considering 8 figure salaries. He would have been obligated to be at numerous doctor's appointments, workouts, minor league games, team functions, media availability, and more. We had nothing to gain and everything to lose by releasing him and I said it at the time.

[Jonn]

I think people are allowed to be pissed off about the decision to outright release Tulo. That decision made very little sense even if you thought he was done. They seemed to do it purely as a favour and maybe to get into the good graces of his agent. Personally felt they could have played hard ball with him. Especially after his comments suggesting if he wasn’’t the starting SS he would pack his bags and go home. Blue Jays would have been in position to suspend him without pay if that was the case.

 

But to honest its all a sunk cost and everyone should move on. Doubtful he would have willingly to give up that money. Retiring is purely a paperwork move. Probably just would have stayed in Florida and only joined the team on rare occasions until his contract was up.

 

You could argue he should have gave up money to be granted his release but that’s about it at this point. It honestly looked like he never wanted to be here to begin with.

[Spanky99]

I agree that Rogers stuck their nose in. They've done it in the past. Really frustrating though cause everyone saw where this team was headed after 2015. The team was getting older, the farm system was mortgaged for a small window. The team was trending down after 2015 and it wasn't going to get better...they had a nice go in 2016 but it clearly wasn't the same team...Shapiro wanted to retool after 2016 from what I recall, and that was totally the right move, but Rogers made decisions with their wallet, as they always do.

 

And here you are, 16 hrs later saying exactly what I was referring to.

[Bobthe4th]

In this case, it is. He wouldn't have retired otherwise, and we'd be paying him AND he'd be taking up the 40 man spot.

 

That 40 man spot is now going to be wasted on Elvis for the next few years while he’s developing in the minors.

 

I guess we could dfa him once the rule 5 restrictions are over, as no one is likely to claim him and put him on their 40 man list.

 

TBF it probably was the right move releasing Tulo, but it was more about preventing potential disruption (his comments on insisting on being the starter at SS, and his general apparent unhappiness at being here) IMO.

[Ray]

That 40 man spot is now going to be wasted on Elvis for the next few years while he’s developing in the minors.

 

I guess we could dfa him once the rule 5 restrictions are over, as no one is likely to claim him and put him on their 40 man list.

 

TBF it probably was the right move releasing Tulo, but it was more about preventing potential disruption (his comments on insisting on being the starter at SS, and his general apparent unhappiness at being here) IMO.

 

Every player with less than 5 year service time can be outrighted once off the 40-man, so they wouldn't have to DFA him.

[Bobthe4th]

Every player with less than 5 year service time can be outrighted once off the 40-man, so they wouldn't have to DFA him.

 

That's not really accurate, less than 5 years just means they don't have to give permission to be assigned to the minors. They still have to clear waivers.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

I agree that Rogers stuck their nose in. They've done it in the past. Really frustrating though cause everyone saw where this team was headed after 2015. The team was getting older, the farm system was mortgaged for a small window. The team was trending down after 2015 and it wasn't going to get better...they had a nice go in 2016 but it clearly wasn't the same team...Shapiro wanted to retool after 2016 from what I recall, and that was totally the right move, but Rogers made decisions with their wallet, as they always do.

 

All that said, I still don't have confidence in Atkins. He's clumsy and awkward from a PR standpoint, and although that doesn't really mean much, he's been here how many years, and has he really hit a home run with any significant transaction? Just once I want to step back and say to myself, "Well f***! Atkins pulled off a beauty move that's meaningful."

 

Yeah, not signing Bautista to a 8-year, $150M contract was a big one for me.

[Krylian]

Yeah, not signing Bautista to a 8-year, $150M contract was a big one for me.

 

He wanted 5/$150M. It was completely asinine.

[Barkerfan23]

"I agree that Rogers stuck their nose in. They've done it in the past. Really frustrating though cause everyone saw where this team was headed after 2015. The team was getting older, the farm system was mortgaged for a small window. The team was trending down after 2015 and it wasn't going to get better...they had a nice go in 2016 but it clearly wasn't the same team...Shapiro wanted to retool after 2016 from what I recall, and that was totally the right move, but Rogers made decisions with their wallet, as they always do."

 

No basis for this opinion other than the posters overwhelming desire to defend Shapiro, since saying that Shapiro has done a bad job would mean that the outlook on the future is bleak.

[Laika]

More than that. Tulo has made plenty of money in his career and his obligations to the team paying him are far more than just sitting at home. All we know is that he did retire. Anything else is just speculation. Sure looks like we wasted some money.

 

(whispers: you're f***ing speculating too you insufferable bag of dicks)

[Grant77]

(whispers: you're f***ing speculating too you insufferable bag of dicks)

 

He retired. No speculation, just a fact.

 

Would it be differwnt if we had kept him? Maybe, maybe not. A family issue could be the reason he retired now. We have no idea.

[KevinGregg]

He retired. No speculation, just a fact.

 

Would it be different if we had kept him? Maybe, maybe not. A family issue could be the reason he retired now. We have no idea.

 

Sure but that's a pretty minuscule possibility. Most likely (99.9999% probability) situation is that he doesn't retire if he's still with the Jays because he wants his 20 million dollars

[L54]

He retired. No speculation, just a fact.

 

Would it be differwnt if we had kept him? Maybe, maybe not. A family issue could be the reason he retired now. We have no idea.

 

We have no idea, aka speculation.

 

No wonder these guys are always giving you a hard time, you’re the most condescending guy here.

[Ray]

That's not really accurate, less than 5 years just means they don't have to give permission to be assigned to the minors. They still have to clear waivers.

 

Huh. I was sure I read somewhere that a player can be outrighted once off the 40-man without being exposed to waivers, but I guess that's not the case. My bad.

[Laika]

He retired. No speculation, just a fact.

 

Would it be differwnt if we had kept him? Maybe, maybe not. A family issue could be the reason he retired now. We have no idea.

 

Toronto released him - FACT

He retired - FACT

He would have kept playing if Toronto never released him - SPECULATION

He would have retired if Toronto never released him - SPECULATION

Nobody in your family loves you - FACT

Pizza is bad where you live - FACT or SPECULATION????!!!!

[Grant77]

NJH is wrong and can't come up with an informed response so he resorts to childish insults. We've only seen this 1000 times.

[Deadpool]

Huh. I was sure I read somewhere that a player can be outrighted once off the 40-man without being exposed to waivers, but I guess that's not the case. My bad.

 

You have to be exposed to waivers when you are removed from the 40 man roster, I don't think there's any exception to that. You can be outrighted once you're off the 40 man, but it's the removal that triggers the waiver exposure.

[Krylian]

"I agree that Rogers stuck their nose in. They've done it in the past. Really frustrating though cause everyone saw where this team was headed after 2015. The team was getting older, the farm system was mortgaged for a small window. The team was trending down after 2015 and it wasn't going to get better...they had a nice go in 2016 but it clearly wasn't the same team...Shapiro wanted to retool after 2016 from what I recall, and that was totally the right move, but Rogers made decisions with their wallet, as they always do."

 

No basis for this opinion other than the posters overwhelming desire to defend Shapiro, since saying that Shapiro has done a bad job would mean that the outlook on the future is bleak.

 

Lol. I've been one of Shapiro's biggest critics on the boards.

 

Rogers implemented the 5 year max contact policy after Vernon Wells went so badly.

 

Rogers cut Ricciardi legs out from under him and vetoed at least a couple of moves he wanted to make, before they ended up canning him (and I didn't like Ricciardi either).

 

Rogers wouldn't give AA the go ahead to sign (I think it was Edwin Jackson) years ago, and that's when he was forced to start asking other players to defer money so he could scrape up enough to sign him. Didn't work.

 

They've interfered with their GMs in the past. I'm sure there are other examples I'm forgetting about.

[Spanky99]

He retired. No speculation, just a fact.

 

Would it be differwnt if we had kept him? Maybe, maybe not. A family issue could be the reason he retired now. We have no idea.

 

Family issue? They said on MLB Network last night he's going to be the assistant coach for the Longhorns, he wouldn't have retired if he were still a Jay, bro. No-one would throw that type of money away.