Troy Tulowitzki

[King]

 

 

rekt

[BTS]

I support these comments.

[P2F]

I admire Ross' candor here.

[Dr. Dinger]

I somewhat feel that Atkins might be egging him into retirement; if so, fap.

[Spanky__99]

Very interesting comments, seeing as Tulo said he'd retire if he's not the starting SS just last season when he called for a presser.

[Spanky__99]

I somewhat feel that Atkins might be egging him into retirement; if so, fap.

 

Sure seems that way.

[Carlos Danger]

I am not saying there is a direct correlation to injuries, but it certainly doesnt help.. Spend the $ and gets the fnnn grass put in!! There has to be an IRR if you look at injuries, sunk costs, players not wanting to play on turf, longevity.

 

Should be a priority IMO.

[BTS]

I am not saying there is a direct correlation to injuries, but it certainly doesnt help.. Spend the $ and gets the fnnn grass put in!! There has to be an IRR if you look at injuries, sunk costs, players not wanting to play on turf, longevity.

 

Should be a priority IMO.

 

Tulo plays shortstop.

[Angrioter]

MTV Tulowitzki Roast

[Carlos Danger]

Tulo plays shortstop.

 

My understanding is the dirt infield is still harder then if it was all grass stadium with dirt infield. The inner diamond, OF and foul lines are all still turf.

 

It has to have an afect long term IMO.

[AdamGreenwood]

I somewhat feel that Atkins might be egging him into retirement; if so, fap.

 

Does that mean we would potentially not have to pay his salary then?

That would be amazing, but I think very unlikely that Tulo leaves that money on the table.

[Terminator]

Do the Jays have insurance on his contract? If so Atkins' comments that he's not healthy enough to play make even more sense.

[Spanky__99]

Does that mean we would potentially not have to pay his salary then?

That would be amazing, but I think very unlikely that Tulo leaves that money on the table.

 

He said as much a few months back.

 

 

By Gregor Chisholm MLB.com @gregorMLB

Aug. 26th, 2018

 

 

TORONTO -- Troy Tulowitzki hasn't appeared in a Major League game in well over a year, but whenever he eventually does return, the former All-Star is adamant it will be at shortstop.

 

Tulowitzki was ruled out for the year on Saturday morning. His feet were predictably slow to recover following a pair of surgical procedures to remove bone spurs in April, and the end result is another lost season.

 

The severity of Tulowitzki's injury, combined with the Blue Jays being in the midst of a rebuild, prompted some speculation that the former Gold Glove winner will eventually have to switch positions. According to Tulowitzki, that's not going to happen.

 

"My experience out there, I think proves that you don't have to be the quickest guy," Tulowitzki said Sunday. "It's all about reads, it's about knowing the game, it's about baseball smarts, it's about angles. There's a lot more that goes into playing shortstop than people think.

 

"I believe in my ability. I believe in the homework that I do, so without a doubt. And guess what? My heels aren't going to be hurting either and I played with my heels bothering me the last couple of years. I might even be better suited for the position as I get older."

 

Tulowitzki has two years and at least $38 million remaining on his contract. He's set to earn $20 million in 2019, $14 million in 2020 and there is a $4 million buyout for a $15-million club option in 2021. Contractually speaking, Tulowitzki remains a big part of the present, and the future, but the on-field outlook tells a different story.

 

The promising Bo Bichette is expected to be ready at some point midway through next year or the start of 2020. Toronto's No. 2 prospect per MLB Pipeline is considered the shortstop of the future and it seems like only a matter of when, not if, he takes over the position.

 

Then there's the emerging Lourdes Gurriel Jr., who still has some defensive issues to work through, but has received an extended look at shortstop while Tulowitzki has been on the disabled list. Add in Aledmys Diaz, Yangervis Solarte, Brandon Drury and Devon Travis, and the Blue Jays' middle infield gets complicated in a hurry.

 

Tulowitzki might not be changing positions, but he also doesn't seem too intimidated about who's coming behind him. If anything, he claims to embrace it.

 

"I would love for it to be a competition because that makes our team better," Tulowitzki said. "I've always said, since Day 1 that I stepped in the big leagues. I remember being a rookie, people thought I had no chance to make the team out of Spring Training, I had to beat out a veteran.

 

"I welcome competition. It really doesn't matter to me, you don't get to this point without competing. I don't make that decision. That's why we have coaches, that's why we have managers. They'll tell you what's going on."

 

The big question when Tulowitzki eventually comes back is how much will he have left? In his prime, Tulowitzki was one of the most dangerous hitters in the game, but in Toronto there has been more hype than production.

 

Tulowitzki was a key figure in Toronto's back-to-back appearances in the American League Championship Series in 2015-16. His value in October cannot be overstated, but in 238 regular season games for the Blue Jays he is slashing just .250/.313/.414. That's not close to the level it was in Colorado when he was considered the game's top shortstop.

 

The expectation remains that Tulowitzki will be Toronto's Opening Day shortstop in 2019. Everything beyond that remains uncertain. Well, almost everything.

 

"I just said I'm a shortstop. If someone is better than me, I'll pack my bags and go home," Tulowitzki said. "I do think I bring a lot more than what you guys see out there, too, and that's part of baseball. There's stuff behind the scenes that goes on, there are things that I try to help teammates with, I think I do bring a veteran leadership. Those things shouldn't go unnoticed."

[tercet]

This FO is borderline f***in delusional in the public IRT to Gurribabip. I get that he was the first "big FA signing" of the new regime and that they don't want to talk bad about him. But he has been very very very bad outside of a 70 PA sample in July 2018.

 

I hope privately they understand that rough odds for him long-term are that 80% he will be trash, 10% he might be an ok regular, 10% he might be decent.

[Spanky__99]

Blue Jays could be at a crossroads with Tulo

 

https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/news/blue-jays-not-sure-of-troy-tulowitzkis-role/c-301510050

 

By Gregor Chisholm MLB.com @gregorMLB

6:56 PM EST

 

TORONTO -- The Blue Jays might be headed for a showdown with Troy Tulowitzki as they struggle to find a role for the oft-injured shortstop who hasn't played in almost a year and a half.

 

Toronto general manager Ross Atkins was asked during a media availability Wednesday afternoon whether Tulowitzki would be able to play regularly -- and to the standard the Blue Jays require -- at shortstop. The answer was surprisingly blunt.

 

"Candidly, and I think Troy would agree with me, that is not likely," Atkins said. "He will have to overachieve to play shortstop at an above-average level, with above-average offensive performance for 140 games. That would be unlikely based on what has occurred in the last 2 1/2 years. That doesn't mean he's not going to do it, but candidly, I don't think that's likely."

 

Atkins later went on to say that if the season started tomorrow, Lourdes Gurriel Jr. would be the club's shortstop. There's still plenty of time for that to change, but the fact that Tulowitzki has two years and $38 million remaining on his contract only complicates things even more.

 

Tulowitzki has repeatedly stated -- as recently as early September -- that he has no intention of moving off shortstop. How strongly does he feel about that?

 

"I said I'm a shortstop," Tulowitzki added at the time. "If someone's better than me, I'll pack my bags and go home."

 

The Blue Jays might be prepared to call Tulowitzki's bluff, because at this point it's not immediately clear what role he will have on the 2019 roster. If he's not the starting shortstop, then what is he exactly? Would Tulowitzki be considered a part-time player? Would the club ask him to permanently change positions despite his public comments?

 

"First and foremost, he has to get healthy, and he is," Atkins said of Tulowitzki, who missed all of 2018 after having surgery to remove bone spurs in both of his feet. "He looks like he is healthy. He's recovering well. He has full range of motion. He has his strength. ... Our reports are very positive.

 

"It's just a matter of getting him into the Spring Training environment and once we see him at a higher caliber of play, with those expectations, it's just too hard to say. To call him a part-time player, the honest answer to that is, I don't know. We're not going to label him anything just yet, but I think it's unlikely that he plays an above-average shortstop for us for 140 games."

 

The Blue Jays are expected to start the year with Gurriel at short, Brandon Drury at third, Devon Travis at second and Justin Smoak at first. Top prospect Vladimir Guerrero Jr. should be promoted by the end of April, and where this leaves Tulowitzki -- and his seemingly untradeable contract -- is anyone's guess.

 

So will Toronto have a problem on its hands if Tulowitzki is healthy but not starting at shortstop when the Blue Jays open the season on March 28 vs. the Tigers?

 

"We'll see," Atkins said. "At this point, we're just focused on what we can control."

 

And if the season started tomorrow, the Blue Jays would control that by putting Gurriel at short.

[Boxcar]

My understanding is the dirt infield is still harder then if it was all grass stadium with dirt infield. The inner diamond, OF and foul lines are all still turf.

 

It has to have an afect long term IMO.

 

lol how do you figure? Does Toronto use extra hard dirt for some odd reason?

[Sammy225]

lol how do you figure? Does Toronto use extra hard dirt for some odd reason?

 

They used the stuff laced with concrete.

[wilko]

Does anyone even think Tulowitzki will be starting SS this year? Even if he is healthy, what kind of production/defense will he provide? plz retire.

[JaysFan4Ever]

It seems a little like the FO is kind of letting him know that they've pretty much have moved on, and if not for the no-trade clause, and amount owed, he'd be gone for anything they could get, including, but not limited to, a hotdog. Maybe this has been discussed privately, and might be discussed (again) with his agent, or just agents representing more than one guy are usually at these things, taking with everyone, especially in a case like this where someone was injured, and isn't guaranteed a spot, where Atkins and Co. keep letting them know even if the medical staff clears him to start playing at 100% (of the average MLB player, not Troy's), that's he's not going to simply get the job if he's not going a full 9, hitting the Mendoza line, his defensive range is cut, because he's got the contract, and name, and if GL, or whomever, is playing hotter, he's getting the start. It seems pretty clear who the Jays currently view as their starting SS, and don't think TT can manage. Maybe it is going to be a bit of negotiations going on to buyout some of the contract to let him go, say if he's on the DL, they won't take him off, just to loose a player, then place him back on, would trade him if they could, but come on, no takers there, so either stick to your word, and if someone, which is likely going to happen, beats you in ST for the job, pack your bags, go, retire, or wind up on the restricted list, not getting paid, or work out some kind of, we'll give you a small percentage of what's owed paid twice a year for 5 years, taking it all off the books if you agree to be released, and can save face by saying it was a mutual parting, not forced to a bench role until you get pissed, demand a release, trade, or quit.

[Spanky__99]

Me eyes... ahhhhhhh... this has all been pointed out.

 

If he's healthy wins out the spot, good for him... the leash won't be long, obviously. He truly needs to earn it and it's apparent. No favours cause of contract, we'll see.

[P2F]

It seems a little like the FO is kind of letting him know that they've pretty much have moved on, and if not for the no-trade clause, and amount owed, he'd be gone for anything they could get, including, but not limited to, a hotdog. Maybe this has been discussed privately, and might be discussed (again) with his agent, or just agents representing more than one guy are usually at these things, taking with everyone, especially in a case like this where someone was injured, and isn't guaranteed a spot, where Atkins and Co. keep letting them know even if the medical staff clears him to start playing at 100% (of the average MLB player, not Troy's), that's he's not going to simply get the job if he's not going a full 9, hitting the Mendoza line, his defensive range is cut, because he's got the contract, and name, and if GL, or whomever, is playing hotter, he's getting the start. It seems pretty clear who the Jays currently view as their starting SS, and don't think TT can manage. Maybe it is going to be a bit of negotiations going on to buyout some of the contract to let him go, say if he's on the DL, they won't take him off, just to loose a player, then place him back on, would trade him if they could, but come on, no takers there, so either stick to your word, and if someone, which is likely going to happen, beats you in ST for the job, pack your bags, go, retire, or wind up on the restricted list, not getting paid, or work out some kind of, we'll give you a small percentage of what's owed paid twice a year for 5 years, taking it all off the books if you agree to be released, and can save face by saying it was a mutual parting, not forced to a bench role until you get pissed, demand a release, trade, or quit.

 

This is just my personal feeling/speculation(s), but I have a feeling (not quite 50-50% but close to it), that the Jays wind up bringing back either one of Joey Bats AND/or EE.

I think JB might have a hit to his pride, like many have said, since he might have to take less money, and less years on the deal. He might have to play LF, with either Zeek or someone else manning RF that the Jays acquire, and occasionally playing 1B and DH.

With EE, I could see them possibly bringing him back on a lesser contract than he expected to get, maybe even a one year deal, or a 3 year deal, with an opt out/player options for the next two (a la what the Mets had with Cespedes), and he can start at 1B, with Pearce moving to LF. It wouldn't be ideal defensively, but it gives the Jays more power.

 

I could see both coming back on less AAV deals, or backloaded deals, or short term (1-3) simply because, if someone wanted them, they'd be signed by now. You look at the moves made by other teams to add power bats, some even older than both of them, giving up some nice prospects, and they're sitting in the cold right now.

 

EE would be a bit more difficult with Morales at DH full time, but as i said, EE could man 1B. Wouldn't be ideal, but he showed he could handle it at least decently. Pearce has the ability to play LF. It might not be the best defense, but if EE wants to come back, can't find a place elsewhere, and the Jays can say "hey, we offered you a solid deal, you said no, you didn't find anything, you want to come back, the door is still cracked open, but it'll be at a one year deal worth this amount which is lower than you expected, or a short term deal, with an opt out, or less money, but you'll have a place to play, and on a contending team, we'll make it work" then maybe he comes back.

 

Similar with JB. If someone wanted him, he'd be signed by now. Maybe he doesn't get the AAV he wants, but maybe he gets the number of years he wants, or maybe a higher AAV on a short term deal.

 

I see JB more likely to come back simply because they can, worse case, stick him in LF, or work him out at 1B during ST, and Pearce in LF, and see how that goes. If not for anything just to see how it works out in case they want to try it during the season, but I see JB in LF, Pearce/Smoak manning 1B, unless they find a taker for Smoak. But then we lose a switch hitter (mostly a LHH, but he seems all or nothing. Could be from lack of ABs or he just is all or nothing).

 

I'm sure a lot of teams aren't jumping on these two, because, 1) the draft pick tied to them, 2) they might be asking for too much. I can see EE declining the rumoured Jays' offer of 4/$80 to test the market and because he's earned the FA rights, but the Jays weren't going to sit around waiting. One, or both might come back if the Jays say hey, here's the deal. Come back on one year deals, or 2-3 year deals on lesser AAV or backloaded deals (not a fan of those), and you get to play for a contender, and if you come back for one year, two years, you hit the market next year and might get a better chance especially with the changes to the CBA and the QO system, or you opt out and try your luck, and hopefully by then, the Jays have internal options, or can target other guys on the FA market next season.

 

Maybe they even try to bring back Saunders. It's odd no one has made a play on him yet. I know there's concerns about his knee, how he seemed to just disappear offensively in the 2nd half, but he made less than $3M, you'd think he could be had for next to nothing. Even doubling his contract from last year is a cheap gamble considering what some guys are getting this year who are much older (yes, I know, better histories of being consistent too).

 

I'm sure the Jays have back up plans and have targeted players either via free agency and/or trade, and the meetings are typically where sometimes ground work is just laid out. With what they need (1-2 corner OF, back up catcher, even though they've added AJ back to the roster and signed Mike Ohlman to a minor's contract who seems like he could compete for a back up spot as catcher, and really need some BP arms to compete with the revamped teams in the AL East, especially since we saw last season, if not the past 2-3, how early on the pen collapsing costed the team much needed games that they couldn't make up later on) they're certainly not done. I'ts not even mid December and many players aren't really concerned with what's going on (again just my opinion) especially with the holidays coming up, so there might be a flurry of moves made before the holidays, shortly after, plus there's January where you see guys who haven't found homes yet, sign for less.

 

To recap, I could actually see them bringing back both EE and JB on lesser contracts, and possibly (if not definitely) moving Smoak (really a cheap contract that someone will likely take on without the Jays having to pay anything on it, maybe a little bit if they're getting a solid BP arm, or three team trade might make it so they can just dump his contract without paying), and utilizing Pearce's ability to play LF to help out with accommodating one or both of them. But as I said it might require opt out clauses/player options, with back loaded contracts to get them back, and to address the bullpen. I really see it more likely that JB could return simply because he's more of a fit. We could use an OF. He fits. He's a fan favourite here (for the most part), and is kind of sitting waiting for a suitor. As long as what he's paid this year (which is why I stress maybe a 1-2-3 year deal, with opt out or back loaded) won't cripple the team's chances of trying to help with the 'pen, then I can see him back. EE would be a lot tougher since we have a full time DH, a guy who's a fairly solid 1B in Pearce, though he could play LF if needed, but might not be best defensively, and a redundant player with having Smoak sitting on the bench, wasting money.

 

Personally, I like both players, I like EE a bit more, but since he turned down the deal, the Jays had to act, rather than be left out in the cold, so I wouldn't mind if they went elsewhere and the Jays wind up with a pair of draft picks to help add some players to the farm. I also wouldn't mind seeing one, or even both back, providing it doesn't hurt the team's financial needs to try and bring in BP help. Both seems highly unlikely. One doesn't seem likely. I could be wrong, but their markets seem dry. They both seem to like Toronto. The FO could have just said we're moving on since we only have $X to spend and need some more help in the pen, especially since Cecil is gone, Loup hasn't been the same guy over the past two season that he was during the first few seasons. We have some rookies who look promising, but if you're going to contend you don't want to count on them. They could be like Biagini last year and surprise everyone, but you don't want to count on that, because if they falter, who are you going to? Biagini is going to prepare as a starter (or so it's said, but likely will be in the pen, to help Grilli in that set up role, unless a starter goes down, and they stick him in the rotation), our recent Rule 5 pick could be a nice pick up, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If either return, it's going to have to be at a discount, or back loaded deal, or opt out/play option deal, that might be a blow to their egos, or might upset the union, since if either come back for less than the QO, or what some other guys were getting, the union might not be happy, but screw them.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Jays add some starter depth. Even though the Jays barely, but still had a good staff since they were a few points better than the team that beat them and went to the World Series, lead the league in ERA, I still think they need some starters to help out just in case.

 

So, excuse my long post, and getting off topic, since this is a JB thread, I can actually see him returning, mostly since his age, his poor season, people like him here, he seemed to like being here, (here means Toronto, I don't actually live there), but it would have to be at a lesser price than he is/was expecting, probably lower than the QO, maybe a 2-3 year deal, that is back loaded, which I don't like, especially for an aging player. Granted his injuries (slamming into the wall and hurting his toe, and them keeping him out because they didn't want to rush him back is understandable, and it was a more "freak accident" since it could happen to a 23 year old blue chip prospect, and his other injury, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a knee/leg injury from getting caught in the seem of the turf? That could happen to anyone) played a role in his production, or lack thereof, but when healthy it looked like he was either trying too hard, or just never found his grove. He's defense has been poor, so maybe the swap to LF, or maybe starting games at 1B, and seeing how Pearce can play in LF during spring, might help out, or maybe just tell him, we want you to bite the bullet, swallow your pride and play LF, because your defense is fallen, and look for a better option for RF.

 

I think he's still not signed because of the draft pick, maybe his asking price, the talk of his ego/attitude since he seems to be a guy people either love or hate, and sometimes he spoke his mind more than he should have, or thought before speaking, and when OF are getting a king's ransom in trades, while he just sits waiting, something is up there. Maybe he's being stubborn, or his agent(s) are just trying to get him that one last deal since he's 36, and likely won't get much, coming off his worse season, or maybe multiple factors, or trying to wait and see what teams get desperate at the end of the offseason and will part with the pick to sign him. I wouldn't mind him back if he was moved to LF, maybe played 1B at times, DHed other games, and he didn't cost that much this year, which keeps the team from addressing other needs.

 

All that being said, as long as the Jays do what makes them a better team, gives them depth, gives them the ability to score runs, prevent runs, compete, and maybe make it to the World Series this year, obviously need some depth too since some guys are out of options, and might get lost on waivers, or are borderline replacement guys who were claimed, I'll be happy. If JB does come back, and can give at least one more year of solid production, and doesn't have a bad season, then I'll be happy. If he goes elsewhere, the Jays get a pick for him, and they fill the spot with someone with production, defense, and athleticism, I'll be happy. Whatever makes the team better, can score runs, prevent them, get back to the post season, and this time win the ALCS, then I'll be very happy. The other teams improved. It doesn't mean the Jays have to go nuts to compete blow for blow in acquisitions, since we have some good pitching, at least starters, some offense, defense, but we could use some depth, bullpen help, starter depth, and hopefully not have to rely on the homer run as often.

 

And since I'm making a huge post, and touching on many subjects, just a quick comment on the Yankees' code about facial hair, hair length, dress codes, and other things. I know many clubs have certain rules. I think MLB requires players to wear suits while traveling (from one city to another, but not wear them all the time, again, if I'm wrong, someone correct me), but the rules the Yankees have, even though they've had a long history, just seem a bit overboard to me. And no, it's not just because I'm a guy with long hair and a goatee that would have to be cut and shaved if I were to play for them. It just seems like arbitrary rules to have. I can see if someone signed as a FA, then you know what you're getting into. It's like taking any job and they say here's the dress code and how you must look. That is a little more understandable to me. But what about the guys who get traded, claimed on waivers, who don't have a say? They're supposed to give up what they consider their identity? I get you're earning more money than most people will see in many life times, and it's probably a small price to pay, and your employer can kind of dictate what you can and can't look like, (MLB with the "Brandon League Rule about having to wear sleeves or other covers on your arms if you have tattoos that might distract hitters, I'd think, and this is also coming from playing baseball for years, that unless the ink looks like a ball, you're not really going to be too distracted, but safety, ok), but let the players be themselves, and as long as they're not being a distraction to the team, who cares? If they get the job done, who cares? Hell, my back doctor looks like a guy you'd mistake as a Hell's Angel, and is the nicest guy you could meet. They talk about team chemistry (AA did, the Jays have over the past few years, and then they started to get good), you're kind of disrupting it if you're making people change who they are, in a sense. Maybe it's just me.

 

OK, I'm shutting up now. I've posted enough for a week with this post.

[TheHurl]

you lost me at "personal feeling"

[Abomination]

That wall of text ...

[Jimcanuck]

pretty dangerous post, with the annual awards coming soon

[P2F]

pretty dangerous post, with the annual awards coming soon

 

I don't see any awards threads around here, so this post is likely to go unpunished.

[King]

This is just my personal feeling/speculation(s), but I have a feeling (not quite 50-50% but close to it), that the Jays wind up bringing back either one of Joey Bats AND/or EE.

I think JB might have a hit to his pride, like many have said, since he might have to take less money, and less years on the deal. He might have to play LF, with either Zeek or someone else manning RF that the Jays acquire, and occasionally playing 1B and DH.

With EE, I could see them possibly bringing him back on a lesser contract than he expected to get, maybe even a one year deal, or a 3 year deal, with an opt out/player options for the next two (a la what the Mets had with Cespedes), and he can start at 1B, with Pearce moving to LF. It wouldn't be ideal defensively, but it gives the Jays more power.

 

I could see both coming back on less AAV deals, or backloaded deals, or short term (1-3) simply because, if someone wanted them, they'd be signed by now. You look at the moves made by other teams to add power bats, some even older than both of them, giving up some nice prospects, and they're sitting in the cold right now.

 

EE would be a bit more difficult with Morales at DH full time, but as i said, EE could man 1B. Wouldn't be ideal, but he showed he could handle it at least decently. Pearce has the ability to play LF. It might not be the best defense, but if EE wants to come back, can't find a place elsewhere, and the Jays can say "hey, we offered you a solid deal, you said no, you didn't find anything, you want to come back, the door is still cracked open, but it'll be at a one year deal worth this amount which is lower than you expected, or a short term deal, with an opt out, or less money, but you'll have a place to play, and on a contending team, we'll make it work" then maybe he comes back.

 

Similar with JB. If someone wanted him, he'd be signed by now. Maybe he doesn't get the AAV he wants, but maybe he gets the number of years he wants, or maybe a higher AAV on a short term deal.

 

I see JB more likely to come back simply because they can, worse case, stick him in LF, or work him out at 1B during ST, and Pearce in LF, and see how that goes. If not for anything just to see how it works out in case they want to try it during the season, but I see JB in LF, Pearce/Smoak manning 1B, unless they find a taker for Smoak. But then we lose a switch hitter (mostly a LHH, but he seems all or nothing. Could be from lack of ABs or he just is all or nothing).

 

I'm sure a lot of teams aren't jumping on these two, because, 1) the draft pick tied to them, 2) they might be asking for too much. I can see EE declining the rumoured Jays' offer of 4/$80 to test the market and because he's earned the FA rights, but the Jays weren't going to sit around waiting. One, or both might come back if the Jays say hey, here's the deal. Come back on one year deals, or 2-3 year deals on lesser AAV or backloaded deals (not a fan of those), and you get to play for a contender, and if you come back for one year, two years, you hit the market next year and might get a better chance especially with the changes to the CBA and the QO system, or you opt out and try your luck, and hopefully by then, the Jays have internal options, or can target other guys on the FA market next season.

 

Maybe they even try to bring back Saunders. It's odd no one has made a play on him yet. I know there's concerns about his knee, how he seemed to just disappear offensively in the 2nd half, but he made less than $3M, you'd think he could be had for next to nothing. Even doubling his contract from last year is a cheap gamble considering what some guys are getting this year who are much older (yes, I know, better histories of being consistent too).

 

I'm sure the Jays have back up plans and have targeted players either via free agency and/or trade, and the meetings are typically where sometimes ground work is just laid out. With what they need (1-2 corner OF, back up catcher, even though they've added AJ back to the roster and signed Mike Ohlman to a minor's contract who seems like he could compete for a back up spot as catcher, and really need some BP arms to compete with the revamped teams in the AL East, especially since we saw last season, if not the past 2-3, how early on the pen collapsing costed the team much needed games that they couldn't make up later on) they're certainly not done. I'ts not even mid December and many players aren't really concerned with what's going on (again just my opinion) especially with the holidays coming up, so there might be a flurry of moves made before the holidays, shortly after, plus there's January where you see guys who haven't found homes yet, sign for less.

 

To recap, I could actually see them bringing back both EE and JB on lesser contracts, and possibly (if not definitely) moving Smoak (really a cheap contract that someone will likely take on without the Jays having to pay anything on it, maybe a little bit if they're getting a solid BP arm, or three team trade might make it so they can just dump his contract without paying), and utilizing Pearce's ability to play LF to help out with accommodating one or both of them. But as I said it might require opt out clauses/player options, with back loaded contracts to get them back, and to address the bullpen. I really see it more likely that JB could return simply because he's more of a fit. We could use an OF. He fits. He's a fan favourite here (for the most part), and is kind of sitting waiting for a suitor. As long as what he's paid this year (which is why I stress maybe a 1-2-3 year deal, with opt out or back loaded) won't cripple the team's chances of trying to help with the 'pen, then I can see him back. EE would be a lot tougher since we have a full time DH, a guy who's a fairly solid 1B in Pearce, though he could play LF if needed, but might not be best defensively, and a redundant player with having Smoak sitting on the bench, wasting money.

 

Personally, I like both players, I like EE a bit more, but since he turned down the deal, the Jays had to act, rather than be left out in the cold, so I wouldn't mind if they went elsewhere and the Jays wind up with a pair of draft picks to help add some players to the farm. I also wouldn't mind seeing one, or even both back, providing it doesn't hurt the team's financial needs to try and bring in BP help. Both seems highly unlikely. One doesn't seem likely. I could be wrong, but their markets seem dry. They both seem to like Toronto. The FO could have just said we're moving on since we only have $X to spend and need some more help in the pen, especially since Cecil is gone, Loup hasn't been the same guy over the past two season that he was during the first few seasons. We have some rookies who look promising, but if you're going to contend you don't want to count on them. They could be like Biagini last year and surprise everyone, but you don't want to count on that, because if they falter, who are you going to? Biagini is going to prepare as a starter (or so it's said, but likely will be in the pen, to help Grilli in that set up role, unless a starter goes down, and they stick him in the rotation), our recent Rule 5 pick could be a nice pick up, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If either return, it's going to have to be at a discount, or back loaded deal, or opt out/play option deal, that might be a blow to their egos, or might upset the union, since if either come back for less than the QO, or what some other guys were getting, the union might not be happy, but screw them.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Jays add some starter depth. Even though the Jays barely, but still had a good staff since they were a few points better than the team that beat them and went to the World Series, lead the league in ERA, I still think they need some starters to help out just in case.

 

So, excuse my long post, and getting off topic, since this is a JB thread, I can actually see him returning, mostly since his age, his poor season, people like him here, he seemed to like being here, (here means Toronto, I don't actually live there), but it would have to be at a lesser price than he is/was expecting, probably lower than the QO, maybe a 2-3 year deal, that is back loaded, which I don't like, especially for an aging player. Granted his injuries (slamming into the wall and hurting his toe, and them keeping him out because they didn't want to rush him back is understandable, and it was a more "freak accident" since it could happen to a 23 year old blue chip prospect, and his other injury, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a knee/leg injury from getting caught in the seem of the turf? That could happen to anyone) played a role in his production, or lack thereof, but when healthy it looked like he was either trying too hard, or just never found his grove. He's defense has been poor, so maybe the swap to LF, or maybe starting games at 1B, and seeing how Pearce can play in LF during spring, might help out, or maybe just tell him, we want you to bite the bullet, swallow your pride and play LF, because your defense is fallen, and look for a better option for RF.

 

I think he's still not signed because of the draft pick, maybe his asking price, the talk of his ego/attitude since he seems to be a guy people either love or hate, and sometimes he spoke his mind more than he should have, or thought before speaking, and when OF are getting a king's ransom in trades, while he just sits waiting, something is up there. Maybe he's being stubborn, or his agent(s) are just trying to get him that one last deal since he's 36, and likely won't get much, coming off his worse season, or maybe multiple factors, or trying to wait and see what teams get desperate at the end of the offseason and will part with the pick to sign him. I wouldn't mind him back if he was moved to LF, maybe played 1B at times, DHed other games, and he didn't cost that much this year, which keeps the team from addressing other needs.

 

All that being said, as long as the Jays do what makes them a better team, gives them depth, gives them the ability to score runs, prevent runs, compete, and maybe make it to the World Series this year, obviously need some depth too since some guys are out of options, and might get lost on waivers, or are borderline replacement guys who were claimed, I'll be happy. If JB does come back, and can give at least one more year of solid production, and doesn't have a bad season, then I'll be happy. If he goes elsewhere, the Jays get a pick for him, and they fill the spot with someone with production, defense, and athleticism, I'll be happy. Whatever makes the team better, can score runs, prevent them, get back to the post season, and this time win the ALCS, then I'll be very happy. The other teams improved. It doesn't mean the Jays have to go nuts to compete blow for blow in acquisitions, since we have some good pitching, at least starters, some offense, defense, but we could use some depth, bullpen help, starter depth, and hopefully not have to rely on the homer run as often.

 

And since I'm making a huge post, and touching on many subjects, just a quick comment on the Yankees' code about facial hair, hair length, dress codes, and other things. I know many clubs have certain rules. I think MLB requires players to wear suits while traveling (from one city to another, but not wear them all the time, again, if I'm wrong, someone correct me), but the rules the Yankees have, even though they've had a long history, just seem a bit overboard to me. And no, it's not just because I'm a guy with long hair and a goatee that would have to be cut and shaved if I were to play for them. It just seems like arbitrary rules to have. I can see if someone signed as a FA, then you know what you're getting into. It's like taking any job and they say here's the dress code and how you must look. That is a little more understandable to me. But what about the guys who get traded, claimed on waivers, who don't have a say? They're supposed to give up what they consider their identity? I get you're earning more money than most people will see in many life times, and it's probably a small price to pay, and your employer can kind of dictate what you can and can't look like, (MLB with the "Brandon League Rule about having to wear sleeves or other covers on your arms if you have tattoos that might distract hitters, I'd think, and this is also coming from playing baseball for years, that unless the ink looks like a ball, you're not really going to be too distracted, but safety, ok), but let the players be themselves, and as long as they're not being a distraction to the team, who cares? If they get the job done, who cares? Hell, my back doctor looks like a guy you'd mistake as a Hell's Angel, and is the nicest guy you could meet. They talk about team chemistry (AA did, the Jays have over the past few years, and then they started to get good), you're kind of disrupting it if you're making people change who they are, in a sense. Maybe it's just me.

 

OK, I'm shutting up now. I've posted enough for a week with this post.

wow!

[Abomination]

wow!

 

Reported for intentionally quoting that unnecessarily.

[Todd Van Anus]

you lost me at "personal feeling"

 

This

[jays4life19]

I don't see any awards threads around here, so this post is likely to go unpunished.

 

I'm going to finish the 2017 awards soon.

[P2F]

I'm going to finish the 2017 awards soon.

 

I thought you did.