Jays Acquire Randal Grichuk

[Brownie19]

I hope Greene turns into Syndergaard.

 

Why the f*** would you hope that? God damn sadist

[Ray]

Greene has run a 4.1 BB/9 to go with a 6.8 K/9 throughout the minors with a 4 ERA. I'd venture to guess he's strongly approaching bust territory at this point. I doubt he'd be worth anything at all if he didn't even throw 100.

[burlingtonbandit]

If Grichuk can make a Smoak adjustment and just make a lot more contact with 2 strikes he'll improve greatly. The FG article by Jeff Sullivan was pretty good saying with the balls being juiced you don't really need to swing as hard anymore because a Homer going 390 is just as good as a Homer going 425 feet.

[LGBJ29]

If Grichuk can make a Smoak adjustment and just make a lot more contact with 2 strikes he'll improve greatly. The FG article by Jeff Sullivan was pretty good saying with the balls being juiced you don't really need to swing as hard anymore because a Homer going 390 is just as good as a Homer going 425 feet.

 

lol thats a pretty stupid point. A good controlled swing is constant regardless of the ball situation, successful hitters werent swinging out of their shoes to hit home runs before the balls were juiced. Slowing down your swing wouldnt help you. Besides, a high exit velocity is important for more than just home runs. It makes the ball harder to field and make plays on. Thats why some players have higher career BABIP's than others

[KingKat]

Greene has run a 4.1 BB/9 to go with a 6.8 K/9 throughout the minors with a 4 ERA. I'd venture to guess he's strongly approaching bust territory at this point. I doubt he'd be worth anything at all if he didn't even throw 100.

 

I would have liked to see what he could do as a reliever but even as a reliever he might not have been better than a Greg Infante type. He's not good enough to be a deal breaker.

[burlingtonbandit]

lol thats a pretty stupid point. A good controlled swing is constant regardless of the ball situation, successful hitters werent swinging out of their shoes to hit home runs before the balls were juiced. Slowing down your swing wouldnt help you. Besides, a high exit velocity is important for more than just home runs. It makes the ball harder to field and make plays on. Thats why some players have higher career BABIP's than others

 

Sacrificing power for contact with 2 strikes isn't that stupid.

[Krylian]

Why the f*** would you hope that? God damn sadist

 

Mainly cause I want to see people come out of the woodwork and complain that this was a bad deal and they said so right off the bat.

 

Why? Are you worried that it might actually happen?

[LGBJ29]

Sacrificing power for contact with 2 strikes isn't that stupid.

 

Smoak's problem had to do with pitch recognition, not how hard he was swinging. Regardless, a good 2 strike approach involves shortening your swing, not how hard you swing

[Brownie19]

Smoak's problem had to do with pitch recognition, not how hard he was swinging. Regardless, a good 2 strike approach involves shortening your swing, not how hard you swing

 

Shortening your swing can reduce exit velocity and thus power...

 

Anyone know what Smoak's exit velocity was last year?

[burlingtonbandit]

Smoak's problem had to do with pitch recognition, not how hard he was swinging. Regardless, a good 2 strike approach involves shortening your swing, not how hard you swing

 

That's not what he said.

 

“I stopped trying to hit home runs,” Smoak explained to FanGraphs late last month, “which is crazy because I’ve hit the most I’ve hit.”

 

That does sound crazy because his previous single season, career best home run total was 20 set back in 2013. He is not, and does not profess to be, part of the air-ball revolution. He has a fly-ball rate of 41.7% for his career and 41.3% this season.

 

Smoak said for so long in his career he was trying to generate power and what he has discovered is that he did not need to.

 

“I felt like once I got to the big leagues, I tried to be a power guy. I tried to create power. I already had it. I didn’t need to create it,” Smoak said. “I used to get real big at times and try to create [power], taking the same swing on every pitch. You can’t really do that. … It finally got to a point where I felt like I needed competitive at bats. … Someone throws you a changeup you have to be able to get out there and touch it. I felt I had a lot of holes in my swing because I was taking the same swing on every pitch.”

[LGBJ29]

Shortening your swing can reduce exit velocity and thus power...

 

Anyone know what Smoak's exit velocity was last year?

 

right but that doesnt mean you arent swinging as hard, you're just reducing the plane

[LGBJ29]

That's not what he said.

 

“I stopped trying to hit home runs,” Smoak explained to FanGraphs late last month, “which is crazy because I’ve hit the most I’ve hit.”

 

That does sound crazy because his previous single season, career best home run total was 20 set back in 2013. He is not, and does not profess to be, part of the air-ball revolution. He has a fly-ball rate of 41.7% for his career and 41.3% this season.

 

Smoak said for so long in his career he was trying to generate power and what he has discovered is that he did not need to.

 

“I felt like once I got to the big leagues, I tried to be a power guy. I tried to create power. I already had it. I didn’t need to create it,” Smoak said. “I used to get real big at times and try to create [power], taking the same swing on every pitch. You can’t really do that. … It finally got to a point where I felt like I needed competitive at bats. … Someone throws you a changeup you have to be able to get out there and touch it. I felt I had a lot of holes in my swing because I was taking the same swing on every pitch.”

 

 

Yeah and I would argue that he's talking about his swing being too long when he says "I was taking the same swing on every pitch" not that he was swinging to hard, but we're just into semantics at that point

[Spanky99]

Good article for interviews and quotes...(Gibby's the best, lol)

 

https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/news/blue-jays-randal-grichuk-eyes-more-production/c-265196024

[Boxcar]

Good article for interviews and quotes...(Gibby's the best, lol)

 

https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/news/blue-jays-randal-grichuk-eyes-more-production/c-265196024

 

I liked the video there. Grichuk seems very self aware which is a good thing. He didn't overstate or understate any of his abilities, and seems to have a very good idea of how valuable he is.

[BTS]

I liked the video there. Grichuk seems very self aware which is a good thing. He didn't overstate or understate any of his abilities, and seems to have a very good idea of how valuable he is.

 

It’s kinda funny that this will literally make him a forum favourite.

[Brownie19]

Good article for interviews and quotes...(Gibby's the best, lol)

 

https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/news/blue-jays-randal-grichuk-eyes-more-production/c-265196024

 

For those who don't want to open this link, here's an interested tidbit on Grichuk

 

Grichuk purchased a pitching machine at the end of last season and has spent the offseason tracking pitches and taking extended batting practice. The machine has the ability to randomly alternate between balls and strikes, and Grichuk has challenged himself to call out each pitch before it arrived.

 

With a career on-base percentage below .300, Grichuk is all too aware that his strikeouts need to come down and his walk rate needs to go up. The pitching machine was one possible solution to becoming a more well-rounded hitter. The learning process didn't stop there.

 

"One of the things that I've been really trying to focus on is training the eyes," Grichuk said. "I took a course on vision training, to work the muscles in the eyes. So many people don't really work out their eyes and there are a lot of muscles in the eyes that are just like a normal muscle in the body. You need to train it, you need to work it out. I've been doing a lot of things to help improve plate discipline for the upcoming season."

 

I must say I've never really heard of a player doing this before.

[Jonn]

For those who don't want to open this link, here's an interested tidbit on Grichuk

 

Grichuk purchased a pitching machine at the end of last season and has spent the offseason tracking pitches and taking extended batting practice. The machine has the ability to randomly alternate between balls and strikes, and Grichuk has challenged himself to call out each pitch before it arrived.

 

With a career on-base percentage below .300, Grichuk is all too aware that his strikeouts need to come down and his walk rate needs to go up. The pitching machine was one possible solution to becoming a more well-rounded hitter. The learning process didn't stop there.

 

"One of the things that I've been really trying to focus on is training the eyes," Grichuk said. "I took a course on vision training, to work the muscles in the eyes. So many people don't really work out their eyes and there are a lot of muscles in the eyes that are just like a normal muscle in the body. You need to train it, you need to work it out. I've been doing a lot of things to help improve plate discipline for the upcoming season."

 

I must say I've never really heard of a player doing this before.

 

For me the best thing is that hes conscious of his stirkeouts and low walk total. Most players with his line wouldn't give a s*** about those numbers if they hit some homeruns. Hes just trying to become a better player anyway he can and I like that.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Jonn

[Brownie19]

For me the best thing is that hes conscious of his stirkeouts and low walk total. Most players with his line wouldn't give a s*** about those numbers if thet hit some homeruns. Hes just trying to become a better player anyway he can and I like that.

 

The anti Arencibia!

[Boxcar]

For me the best thing is that hes conscious of his stirkeouts and low walk total. Most players with his line wouldn't give a s*** about those numbers if thet hit some homeruns. Hes just trying to become a better player anyway he can and I like that.

 

Yeah, I think sometimes we underplay the mental aspect and it does seem like the Jays think it's a new market inefficiency. I mean, we are ahead of the curve here and I can't believe how much this FO is reviled by the idiot fans. What if there are a bunch of Justin Smoaks out there that simply need to tweak their mindset to unlock at least some of their potential?

 

I've been a big detractor of Grichuk's for a long time, especially when Nafro traded Greg Bird for him. However, hearing him speak so frankly on his weaknesses and how completely aware he is of the issues holding him back are really making me a big fan.

 

I think it goes back to what KingKat said earlier, the FO seems to believe that you can't teach batspeed, or footspeed or exit velo or the ability to barrel (which Grichuk does better than anyone other than Stanton) but you can teach basics like patience and proper mindset. A lot of players are pretty dumb and stubborn, so you find flawed (but very enticing) players with awareness and a good mindset and try to turn them into something great.

 

Lots of examples.

- Jose Bautista had s***** hitting advice for a long time - the predominant "all fields" approach. Opens his mind to attacking the ball early, becomes one of the best hitters in Blue Jay history

- Justin Turner, utility guy his whole career. Thought same hitting philosophy as Jose. Changes mindset, now attacks the ball out front, is one of the best 3B in baseball

- Josh Donaldson, on a mission of self improvement, goes outside his org for hitting advice, turns into a perrennial MVP contender.

- JD Martinez, pretty much the same as Bautista

- Edwin Encarnacion, similar

- Justin Smoak was a bit more of a next level example in that he simply needed to abandon the mindset where he needed to be that 30 homer 1B and try to mash every pitch when he didn't need to.

 

I'm really hopeful for Grichuk, tbh. He's got a pretty high 2 WAR floor, I think but I have a feeling he's going to crush that under the guidance of Shatkins.

 

And I thought I'd add here at the end of my long ass s***** post that I couldn't be happier with a manager like Gibby at the helm who keeps things loose and fun but also has an incredibly open mind about everything. Can you imagine a guy like LaRussa or Leyland in this scenario.

 

TL;DR: I f***ing love this front office, and i have huge hopes for Grichuk and Diaz too, for that matter. I actually think Diaz will be our SS or 2B by mid-May.

 

P.S. in that vein, I'd love to get our hands on Buxton. The the Twins are completely ruining him and he would be an amazing target. Idk what gets it done but the Twins are pretty stupid.

[Brownie19]

Completely agree Boxy....although I must ask what you think the Twins are doing to ruin Buxton?

[Boxcar]

Completely agree Boxy....although I must ask what you think the Twins are doing to ruin Buxton?

 

Finally found the quote. You really made me work, ass.

 

“[The goal is] putting the ball in play more,” Buxton told Depue. “Putting it on the ground more to get it out of the air. With the leg kick I was more fly ball oriented. It didn’t give me a chance to get on base. Now putting it on the ground I at least have the chance of beating it out or them rushing the throw and making an error.”

[Terminator]

Yeah, I think sometimes we underplay the mental aspect and it does seem like the Jays think it's a new market inefficiency. I mean, we are ahead of the curve here and I can't believe how much this FO is reviled by the idiot fans. What if there are a bunch of Justin Smoaks out there that simply need to tweak their mindset to unlock at least some of their potential?

 

I've been a big detractor of Grichuk's for a long time, especially when Nafro traded Greg Bird for him. However, hearing him speak so frankly on his weaknesses and how completely aware he is of the issues holding him back are really making me a big fan.

 

I think it goes back to what KingKat said earlier, the FO seems to believe that you can't teach batspeed, or footspeed or exit velo or the ability to barrel (which Grichuk does better than anyone other than Stanton) but you can teach basics like patience and proper mindset. A lot of players are pretty dumb and stubborn, so you find flawed (but very enticing) players with awareness and a good mindset and try to turn them into something great.

 

This is a good point. It's long been thought that you can't really teach patience, having a good eye at the plate and thus OBP. Mark Trumbo admits he has a problem with that but he doesn't think he can really change it. He even says he wants to change it but that he just can't be that guy. I don't have the quote but it's out there.

 

That line of thinking is so prevalent throughout baseball it seems. But what if they are all wrong?

[Brownie19]

Finally found the quote. You really made me work, ass.

 

Oh f***. Barf.

[Boxcar]

This is a good point. It's long been thought that you can't really teach patience, having a good eye at the plate and thus OBP. Mark Trumbo admits he has a problem with that but he doesn't think he can really change it. He even says he wants to change it but that he just can't be that guy. I don't have the quote but it's out there.

 

That line of thinking is so prevalent throughout baseball it seems. But what if they are all wrong?

 

I think there's more than one reason a player can have a low walk rate and I think Trumbo's is that he just can't recognize the ball in time, which is a physical limitation. With other guys it can be an ill-advised belief that they can hit the ball no matter where it is. Some guys will be more prone to swinging while under pressure because they want to be a hero and desire cashing in RBIs. Some guys are probably advised to be overly aggressive early on in life and internalize it. Some are even advised that as pros.

 

I think that mindset is probably 50%+ of the reason why Joey Votto is one of the best hitters of all time. Even at the height of people freaking out because he doesn't get enough RBIs or homers, he never changed his approach. When he had that really s***** half season, he never changed approach. That guy is going to be a great hitting coach one day.

 

E: to explain how this applies to Grichuk, I simply can't believe that a guy who barrels the ball more often than anyone in baseball not named Stanton has a physical problem with seeing the baseball. This has to be an issue with mindset. Perhaps the revolving outfield in STL helped pressure him into trying to do too much, who knows.

[Captain Adama]

To allude to your point, its a similar philosophy that was the reason Bichette signed with the Jays because they would allow him to continue with his drastic leg kick that Bautista and Donaldson employ.

[burlingtonbandit]

I wonder if the Jays have those Virtual Reality goggles that lets you basically see the pitcher you are facing that day as though you were standing at the plate. I know the Cubs use it.

[Bobthe4th]

I wonder if the Jays have those Virtual Reality goggles that lets you basically see the pitcher you are facing that day as though you were standing at the plate. I know the Cubs use it.

 

Why isn’t that a thing for the Show and PS4 VR??

[burlingtonbandit]

Why isn’t that a thing for the Show and PS4 VR??

 

I would think its too complicated. They already have a hard time as is with the hitting mechanics in the game lol.

[Bobthe4th]

I would think its too complicated. They already have a hard time as is with the hitting mechanics in the game lol.

 

A VR mode similar to the retro mode they introduced might work! Man, VR in ten years could be amazing.

[Jonn]

I wish I could use VR my eyes don't agree with it. But using VR for competitive advantage in the future makes a lot of sense. I know the Washington Wizards use it. Kelly Oubre Jr. credits it for helping him become a better 3 point shooter.