General 2018 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Boxcar]

I don’t really understand it either. A lot of good posters are weirdly hostile to the idea.

 

Martin still has value. Not 20 million in value, but value nonetheless. The prospects you'd get back after paying 15 million for Martin to play on a different team would have next to no value.

[Pendleton]

Martin still has value. Not 20 million in value, but value nonetheless. The prospects you'd get back after paying 15 million for Martin to play on a different team would have next to no value.

 

Yeah that's where I stand. I really don't think he'll fetch us anything of value this off season. Seems like we'd get more out of keeping him as a veteran backup/mentor at least to start the year. Maybe at mid season there will be some catcher injuries around the league and that need might help us get a similar return to the Pearce deal. But in the off season when there are free agent options available, I just don't see a team offering enough to make it worthwhile from our side.

 

I guess my take is that I'm a lot more concerned with giving our top young talents like Jansen every advantage we can, more so than I am with adding another prospect or two in the 20-30 range where we already have more than enough depth.

[BTS]

Martin still has value. Not 20 million in value, but value nonetheless. The prospects you'd get back after paying 15 million for Martin to play on a different team would have next to no value.

 

I get it. I just don’t think it’s as black and white as people are letting on. If Shatkins decided to give the backup spot to Maile or McGuire, save $5M, and pick up a low end prospect or two, I’d think that was a pretty reasonable choice all things considered. I also thinks it’s reasonable to just keep him.

[Spanky__99]

I don’t really understand it either. A lot of good posters are weirdly hostile to the idea.

 

I don't think anyone is hostile to the idea, it's simply the return. If Atkins can find a taker giving up a 50 FV spect I'm sure no one would complain. As many have said, Martin has tangibles that are worth keeping him around over cutting sunk cost and a C/D spect.

[Spanky__99]

Ridiculous train of discussion. Martin is not an untouchable lol

 

Who's saying he's untouchable, you yourself have posted in this thread about keeping Martin? lol... just a week ago.

 

Martin was very unlucky this year. .234 BABIP, well below his .283 career mark. He gets his career BABIP, he's a 2 WAR player.

 

He'd be a good pick for a nice bounce back year in 2019. Plus he can play multiple positions.

 

Trading him for a couple of low level prospects and retaining $16M is a bad move.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Easy just make Martin the manger and Tulo

the Bench Boss Win Win Win !!!

[L54]

I am also willing to play a super utility role for the Blue Jays. They don't even have to pay me $20,000,000.

 

Cool.

[L54]

Can only suppose they are skeptical of getting a return exceeding the value to the Jays. Like, the 'stro's can just sign Ramos rather than give up assets to get an old catcher.

 

You mean skeptical about paying 15M for two s***** prospects so Reese McGuire can be the primary back up?

[L54]

Ridiculous train of discussion. Martin is not an untouchable lol

 

Typical liberal Jim, putting words in other people’s mouth.

[BTS]

You mean skeptical about paying 15M for two s***** prospects so Reese McGuire can be the primary back up?

 

It’s not that simple though. A good portion of that $15M is sunk cost.

[L54]

It’s not that simple though. A good portion of that $15M is sunk cost.

 

10M then for two s***** prospects

[BTS]

10M then for two s***** prospects

 

The hypothetical being talked about works out to:

 

Martin

 

Vs.

 

Maile

$4M in extra cash

two prospects who would be 20-30 in our system

 

It’s at least a toss-up as to which scenario is better for the team. You have to place like 10M on Martin’s intangibles to prefer him, because he’s probably not better on the field than Maile at this point.

[Spanky__99]

The hypothetical being talked about works out to:

 

Martin

 

Vs.

 

Maile

$4M in extra cash

two prospects who would be 20-30 in our system

 

It’s at least a toss-up as to which scenario is better for the team. You have to place like 10M on Martin’s intangibles to prefer him, because he’s probably not better on the field than Maile at this point.

 

I really doubt that, mate. As I doubt we could get 2 spects in the 20-30 in our system as a return, he brings more to the fold in versatility and help groom Jansen along. The batted ball profiles show Martin as quite unlucky, and Maile as very lucky. Meh... we'll see how that works out.

[Jimcanuck]

Who's saying he's untouchable, you yourself have posted in this thread about keeping Martin? lol... just a week ago.

 

No I didn't say anything about keeping him. Your reading comprehension is the worst.

[Spanky__99]

No I didn't say anything about keeping him. Your reading comprehension is the worst.

 

Holy f***, Jim. The discussion hasn't changed, at all.

 

No I don't think he's dead weight. No one knows what we'd get back, because we're not wizards, but if you ate a lot of contract you would enhance the chances considerably. It's spent money regardless. I rather spend only a portion of that money and get something in return.

 

 

Martin was very unlucky this year. .234 BABIP, well below his .283 career mark. He gets his career BABIP, he's a 2 WAR player.

 

He'd be a good pick for a nice bounce back year in 2019. Plus he can play multiple positions.

 

Trading him for a couple of low level prospects and retaining $16M is a bad move.

 

Ridiculous train of discussion. Martin is not an untouchable lol

 

Who's saying he's untouchable, you yourself have posted in this thread about keeping Martin? lol... just a week ago.

 

How can you not follow that, and end up spinning it? It's all in the same context... *facepalm*

 

My reading comprehension is just fine.

[Jimcanuck]

Holy f***, Jim. The discussion hasn't changed, at all.

 

How can you not follow that, and end up spinning it? It's all in the same context... *facepalm*

 

If you can't understand a nuanced position, not my problem.

[Spanky__99]

If you can't understand a nuanced position, not my problem.

 

K.......................

[Jimcanuck]

K.......................

 

Playing 'gotcha!' and failing is the worst.

[glory]

Martin has openly expressed a willingness to play in a super utility role

 

So he can catch 50 games behind Jansen and then be able to cover a s***** 3B when the team already has Drury, Diaz, and eventually Vlad to fill that spot. On a team with no intention of competing.

 

The other alternative is to trade him, get a lotto ticket or two, and give him a chance to start on a contender.

 

I’m sure Martin loved sitting on his ass all september but if he still thinks he can start then we’d be doing him a favor while opening up playing time for others and maybe getting an asset back. I’d take a Samad Taylor type for Martin and hope he turns into something.

[Spanky__99]

Playing 'gotcha!' and failing is the worst.

 

Whatever floats your boat, man. I wasn't playing gotcha or failed, I remembered and agreed with your post. Nice back pedal, mate!

[Spanky__99]

So he can catch 50 games behind Jansen and then be able to cover a s***** 3B when the team already has Drury, Diaz, and eventually Vlad to fill that spot. On a team with no intention of competing.

 

The other alternative is to trade him, get a lotto ticket or two, and give him a chance to start on a contender.

 

I’m sure Martin loved sitting on his ass all september but if he still thinks he can start then we’d be doing him a favor while opening up playing time for others and maybe getting an asset back. I’d take a Samad Taylor type for Martin and hope he turns into something.

 

So why not try to accrue some value and move him at the deadline, if need be?

[Jimcanuck]

From BA (Has Pillar in CF at 33 yrs old and Grichuk at DH - ????)

 

Toronto Blue Jays Farm System Overview For 2019

Notable Graduations: SS/2B Lourdes Gurriel Jr. (5), SS Richard Urena (9) and LHP Ryan Borucki (10).

 

Trending: �� A parade of prospects lines up behind Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Bo Bichette, making the future bright in Toronto.

 

Strengths: Having the best prospect in baseball is always a great place to start for a farm system, but even beyond Vladimir Guerrero Jr., the Blue Jays have depth and potential impact all around the infield. Several hitters got significantly better in 2018, which has improved the system’s overall depth. After graduating lefty Ryan Borucki last season, the Blue Jays could get impact before long from talented arms like Sean Reid-Foley and Nate Pearson.

 

Weaknesses: A few of the Blue Jays’ infield prospects may need to move to the outfield eventually because the system is significantly thinner among promising outfielders. Cavan Biggio and Kevin Smith both had breakout seasons, but they still need to prove their newfound success is a sign of a new level of skill and not just a pair of career years.

 

Toronto Blue Jays Projected 2022 Lineup

(Listed with 2022 season age)

 

C Danny Jansen 27

1B Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 23

2B Lourdes Gurriel Jr. 28

3B Jordan Groshans 22

SS Bo Bichette 24

LF Teoscar Hernandez 29

CF Kevin Pillar 33

RF Cavan Biggio 27

DH Randal Grichuk 30

SP Marcus Stroman 31

SP Aaron Sanchez 29

SP Eric Pardinho 21

SP Nate Pearson 25

SP Ryan Borucki 28

CL Hector Perez 26

[Spanky__99]

From BA (Has Pillar in CF at 33 yrs old and Grichuk at DH - ????)

 

They don't assume trades Jim, just guys that are under control.

[Jimcanuck]

They don't assume trades Jim, just guys that are under control.

 

Sure I get that, but even then. Pillar still in CF 3 years from now. Just how bad will he be

[Spanky__99]

Sure I get that, but even then. Pillar still in CF 3 years from now. Just how bad will he be

 

Just swap Grichuk and Teoscar if it makes you feel better, lol. It's just projected key players under control. You could do this with BA on every team.

[Jimcanuck]

Just swap Grichuk and Teoscar if it makes you feel better, lol. It's just projected key players under control. You could do this with BA on every team.

 

stop being a dick, i'm perfectly fine. just commenting on BA's outlook

[Spanky__99]

stop being a dick, i'm perfectly fine. just commenting on BA's outlook

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That time of the month, Sally?

[Brownie19]

BA must project some improved instincts by Teoscar...it does seem odd. He's s*** in the OF right now.

[Spanky__99]

BA must project some improved instincts by Teoscar...it does seem odd. He's s*** in the OF right now.

 

It's just plugging guys, no big deal.

[Brownie19]

It's just plugging guys, no big deal.

 

In my world - if you're going to do something - do it right or don't do it.