Full Count | May 31, 2017

[Boxcar]

Babe Ruth and Mike Trout played in the same league. You can't just ignore players from past.

 

In name only. In Ruth's time, the talent pool was a mere fraction of what it is today.

 

But whatever, I know this is a hot topic for a lot of people but I'm just saying, there's a reason guys like Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth don't exist anymore.

[KevinGregg]

Babe Ruth and Mike Trout played in the same league. You can't just ignore players from past.

 

He made a good point about replacement level being a farmer who played between harvests back then. Perhaps a better way of comparing Ruth vs Trout would be comparing the difference between Ruth and the average of the next best 200 or so players from his era vs Trout and the average of the next best 200 players from our era. Because I think 'wins above replacement' starts to lose a lot of its meaning when replacement level is so wildly different in each case

[TheHurl]

He didn't play against blacks, Dominicans, etc. And replacement level was a farmer kid who played baseball between harvests. The level of competition is not comparable.

 

Couple that with the fact that pitchers threw nowhere near as hard as they do today, and I don't really buy in to Ruth being the best ever. For his era, sure.

 

I like to say that Babe was the most dominant player ever, as no one has been that much better than the next level. Saying "better" than someone today is just going to get into an unwinnable argument. If pitchers from today went into a time machine and faced Ruth, I'm sure he'd be dominated...but I can't prove that.

[vilifyingforce]

Ruth also never saw a gym, knew what a decent diet was or how to tone down the boozing and smoking. Impossible to compare. Edited June 2, 2017 by vilifyingforce
Damned autocorrect

[Laika]

I like to say that Babe was the most dominant player ever, as no one has been that much better than the next level. Saying "better" than someone today is just going to get into an unwinnable argument. If pitchers from today went into a time machine and faced Ruth, I'm sure he'd be dominated...but I can't prove that.

 

If Babe Ruth were transported as a 16 year old to Latin America and then signed by an MLB team, where would he reach?

 

- MLB Superstar, Miggy/Pujols type hitter

- MLB occasional All-Star / MLB regular

- MLB low-end regular or bench guy

 

WHO KNOWS

[Grant77]

He made a good point about replacement level being a farmer who played between harvests back then. Perhaps a better way of comparing Ruth vs Trout would be comparing the difference between Ruth and the average of the next best 200 or so players from his era vs Trout and the average of the next best 200 players from our era. Because I think 'wins above replacement' starts to lose a lot of its meaning when replacement level is so wildly different in each case

 

I'm very confident that your method would only make things look better for Ruth. Trout has other players at his level in any given year (Miggy, JD, Harper, etc.), but Ruth was so far ahead of the rest of the league that he changed the way that the game is played. He was also a high level pitcher. To me, that adds a lot to his resume.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=1920&month=0&season1=1920&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=5,d

 

There is no way to quantify the difference between eras. I obviously know that Trout is 'better', but there's the access to nutrition, exercise, legal performance enhancers, etc. In 50 years, people will be saying the same thing about Trout.

 

The greatest player can only be compared to the best competition available in his era. Babe Ruth is clearly that player for the moment. Besides, it's not even clear that Trout is better than his modern counterpart, Barry Bonds.

[TheHurl]

Besides, it's not even clear that Trout is better than his modern counterpart, Barry Bonds.

 

Cause he's not

[Laika]

Well Trout's off to a much better career start than Bonds. All he needs to do is stay gud for another decade and then find a way to peak at 37/38. Hmmm....

[TheHurl]

Cool, so if you go play t-ball with 5 year olds, I guess you'll be the best ever too! You know, since WAR will already account for level of competition.

 

I think Boxy needs to go to this Pitch Talks to discuss his views on the differences

 

http://www.homestandsports.com/upcoming-shows/2017/6/8/pitch-talks-presents-baseball-then-now

 

Pitch Talks Presents:

 

Baseball: Then & Now

 

A 2 night event exploring the history of baseball with MLB Official Historian John Thorn and looking ahead to the future of the sport with ESPN's Keith Law, author of a new book "Smart Baseball".

 

These two nights of intriguing baseball conversation will be taking place at "The Sport Gallery" at 15 Tank House Lane inside the Distillery District in downtown Toronto.

 

On June 8th join John Thorn to discuss MLB history, ask questions and learn more about the game from the historian who knows the most!