Fangraphs top 17 Blue Jays prospects

[Spanky99]

Lol who on the board is Damaso commenting on that article

 

That was fun, now that you pointed it out, lol.

[mphenhef]

Can you guys help me out since I am new here? Is RealAccountant one of the resident trolls I should just ignore?

[Terminator]

Can you guys help me out since I am new here? Is RealAccountant one of the resident trolls I should just ignore?

 

Yes. RealAccountant has been trolling since he was 13 way back on the old board. That was 10+ years ago.

[glory]

Teams can win and build a farm at the same time. It's not easy, and you have to eventually part with expendable prospects to add players in trades once you're high enough on the win curve to justify it, but AA hurt one to help the other. Eventually that is/was going to catch up to him. Shatkins did a good job keeping them a playoff team in 2016, and the 2017 team looks good enough to at least be a wild card team again, but still a long ways to go to clean the farm up.

[GreekFatAss]

I don't feel like the farm is in that bad of shape, New Hampshire never looked this good even in AA's peak years of having a top 5 system.

[Spanky99]

I don't feel like the farm is in that bad of shape, New Hampshire never looked this good even in AA's peak years of having a top 5 system.

 

It isn't in bad shape... Longenhagen's dumn.

 

Edit: And glory.

[RealAccountant]

I am not referring to the previous 108 years here. I am referring to several years before when they were given the go ahead to tear down and acquire young pieces and higher picks. I will see if I can dig up the article I found about this.

 

The only thing you need to dig up is your reputation,

 

Which has been buried deeply in s*** with just 9 posts.

[glory]

It isn't in bad shape... Longenhagen's dumn.

 

Edit: And glory.

 

Two straight years without a pitching prospect anywhere near AAA, and exactly one position player prospect in Buffalo since Shatkins took over.

 

Boy, they're going to have to pull back. So many prospects to promote and not enough big league positions to fill.

 

Btw, system is probably middle of the pack. Once Vlad moves up and some of the other younger talent moves up, it will gradually improve.

[King]

Two straight years without a pitching prospect anywhere near AAA, and exactly one position player prospect in Buffalo since Shatkins took over.

 

Boy, they're going to have to pull back. So many prospects to promote and not enough big league positions to fill.

 

It's barely been a year. Atkins was named GM in December '15. After AA gutted the system going all in for a playoff push while he knew wouldn't be with the organization longer than the end of the season. They've only had one draft in which the college players drafted have yet to play above Lansing..

 

edit: And the team has graduated guys like Travis, Stroman, Sanchez, Osuna, Pillar all in the past 2 years.

[glory]

It's barely been a year. Atkins was named GM in December '15. After AA gutted the system going all in for a playoff push while he knew wouldn't be with the organization longer than the end of the season. They've only had one draft in which the college players drafted have yet to play above Lansing..

 

I know, I'm not blaming Shatkins. It's going to take time to make the system better. That was my point. They have it on the right track.

[Spanky99]

Two straight years without a pitching prospect anywhere near AAA, and exactly one position player prospect in Buffalo since Shatkins took over.

 

Boy, they're going to have to pull back. So many prospects to promote and not enough big league positions to fill.

 

Btw, system is probably middle of the pack. Once Vlad moves up and some of the other younger talent moves up, it will gradually improve.

 

Still doesn't mean are farm suxxxxxxx... middle of the pack is far better than we were a couple years ago.

[burlingtonbandit]

I hate when people bring up "AA gutted the farm system" as though it has turned out terribly.

 

He gained huge surplus value in the deals he made. Graveman might be the best prospect of the bunch and he's a different guy now than when they traded him. Norris has been inconsistent/hurt since he was moved, Boyd might be a number 5, Hoffman has been bad. Barreto is a nice prospect but he's still outside the top 50 prospects on some lists. Nick Wells/Jake Brentz are nobodies.

 

Without those trades the team doesn't make the playoffs the last 2 years. Hell you could probably trade Donaldson and Tulo for more right now than what they gave up at the time 2 years ago

[King]

I hate when people bring up "AA gutted the farm system" as though it has turned out terribly.

 

He gained huge surplus value in the deals he made. Graveman might be the best prospect of the bunch and he's a different guy now than when they traded him. Norris has been inconsistent/hurt since he was moved, Boyd might be a number 5, Hoffman has been bad. Barreto is a nice prospect but he's still outside the top 50 prospects on some lists. Nick Wells/Jake Brentz are nobodies.

 

Without those trades the team doesn't make the playoffs the last 2 years. Hell you could probably trade Donaldson and Tulo for more right now than what they gave up at the time 2 years ago

 

We are talking about the farm system in its current state. AA trading away all those prospects no doubt has hurt our depth. I understand that some of the trades were a huge win (Donaldson for one). And it goes even deeper with smaller trades like De Jong and Locastro for IFA money.

[Jimcanuck]

Without those trades the team doesn't make the playoffs the last 2 years. Hell you could probably trade Donaldson and Tulo for more right now than what they gave up at the time 2 years ago

 

No chance.

[Spanky99]

No chance.

 

What was that deal again... Hoffman, Castro and Reyes for Tulo and ?

[King]

Shatkins for doing a fantastic job of re-enforcing the prospect depth while keeping the MLB team competitive. Adding McGuire, Ramirez, Gurriel for nothing and guys like Bichette,Zeuch, Woodman, Palacios etc. through the draft.

[Spanky99]

Shatkins for doing a fantastic job of re-enforcing the prospect depth while keeping the MLB team competitive. Adding McGuire, Ramirez, Gurriel for nothing and guys like Bichette,Zeuch, Woodman, Palacios etc. through the draft.

 

They've been great, brosoff. Lest we forget Liriano to the big club with that deal that landed us McGuire and Ramirez to boot.

[burlingtonbandit]

We are talking about the farm system in its current state. AA trading away all those prospects no doubt has hurt our depth. I understand that some of the trades were a huge win (Donaldson for one). And it goes even deeper with smaller trades like De Jong and Locastro for IFA money.

 

Sure it hurt the depth but you'd be looking at an 82 Win team. If you are going to trade depth, pitching is the side you want to go with.

 

One of the moves I never understood was why the team didn't just blow past their IFA pool the year they signed Vlad. They still would have retained their bonus pool but just would have signed players to less money for 2 years compared to 1. Instead they basically blew the 2015 class by only being able to sign 1 player.

[gruber92]

Mayza will most likely be up at some point this year and will be an impact LHP out of the pen.

[King]

Mayza will most likely be up at some point this year and will be an impact LHP out of the pen.

I think he'll have to get his BB/9 below 8 in AA first.

[gruber92]

I think he'll have to get his BB/9 below 8 in AA first.

 

It's all coming together.

[Spanky99]

Sure it hurt the depth but you'd be looking at an 82 Win team. If you are going to trade depth, pitching is the side you want to go with.

 

One of the moves I never understood was why the team didn't just blow past their IFA pool the year they signed Vlad. They still would have retained their bonus pool but just would have signed players to less money for 2 years compared to 1. Instead they basically blew the 2015 class by only being able to sign 1 player.

 

I agree with this, it baffled me. The penalty is worth it, and I think this is what Brownie was getting at earlier.

[Jonn]

It's all coming together.

 

Well if Gruber says it... it must be true.

[Spanky99]

Well if Gruber says it... it must be true.

 

Watch and learn..

[Jimcanuck]

Sure it hurt the depth but you'd be looking at an 82 Win team.

 

You don't know this. Jays would have a whole lot more cost controlled players on the roster, meaning $30-50M freed up to fill positions of need.

 

The pitching would be among the best, if not the best in baseball.

 

And New Hampshire and Buffalo would be heavy with prospects.

[KingKat]

What was that deal again... Hoffman, Castro and Reyes for Tulo and ?

 

... and the relief pitcher, the veteran black guy.

[P2F]

... and the relief pitcher, the veteran black guy.

LaTroy Hawkins.

[glory]

I hate when people bring up "AA gutted the farm system" as though it has turned out terribly.

 

He gained huge surplus value in the deals he made. Graveman might be the best prospect of the bunch and he's a different guy now than when they traded him. Norris has been inconsistent/hurt since he was moved, Boyd might be a number 5, Hoffman has been bad. Barreto is a nice prospect but he's still outside the top 50 prospects on some lists. Nick Wells/Jake Brentz are nobodies.

 

Without those trades the team doesn't make the playoffs the last 2 years. Hell you could probably trade Donaldson and Tulo for more right now than what they gave up at the time 2 years ago

 

The 2013 deals were worse, but jury is still out on Norris, Boyd, and Hoffman as well. The JD trade was a no brainer, had no problems with that one, but the others were all suspect to varying degrees.

 

Disagree about being able trade Tulo and getting value back like what the Jays traded originally. Great defensive player but old and expensive. Not sure how many teams would absorb that deal and give up good prospects in return.