The 2015 Winter Meetings (Dec 7-10)

[burlingtonbandit]

Gibbons is dumn, none of this surprises me.

 

Yeah I want to give him the benefit of the doubt since he seems like a really good guy but I find myself not liking his managerial decisions more and more often. I really don't want Revere leading off.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Try not being the worst poster to ever find the internet and perhaps your luck will change

 

Try not to be the biggest loser here *******!

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

That's right , follow the light, i'll make you bright. Follow BigBounceyBlueBalls for the Lulz.

 

False but nice try ! Lol

[Jimcanuck]

You have received a warning at Toronto Blue Jays Message Board

Dear BigBounceyBlueBalls,

 

You have received a warning at Toronto Blue Jays Message Board.

 

Reason:

-------

Inappropriate Language

 

Can you please be more productive with your posts? That would go a long way in making this forum more welcoming to old and new posters alike.

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

-------

 

Original Post:

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/showthread.php?p=824459

Quote Originally Posted by Governator View Post

The 10 and 5 is a great rule imo. Eventually u have to treat the ones you like as ppl and not just poker chips.

Never said it was bad, but you can't have it both ways, this ain't f***ing Burger King ! Lol

Warnings serve as a reminder to you of the forum's rules, which you are expected to understand and follow.

 

All the best,

Toronto Blue Jays Message Board

 

Another Mod gone Mad !!! Censorship and False warnings!!!

 

Who bans or controls the Mods when they go Bad and do wrong?

 

Dude, no one cares about you and your problems

[baubau]

Gibby says dumb s*** in the offseason. Like last year planning to hit Martin 2nd, which he did. But to his credit he changes things quickly when they don't work.

[Boxcar]

Try not to be the biggest loser here *******!

 

OK trying...

 

And I succeeded! Your turn.

[KingKat]

OK trying...

 

And I succeeded! Your turn.

 

Too late... He's banned.

[Boxcar]

Too late... He's banned.

 

Darn.

[bronson44]

To be honest, I think Tulo likes it a little bit further down, maybe more.

 

Don't we all though?

 

Also, am I missing something? Who the hell is Richard?

 

Was wondering that too. Only thing I can think of is Richard Griffin brought it up in a media scrum once and Gibby was having some fun with it. Picturing that line delivered with the patented Gibbons wink and smile.

[SAAviour]

Industry speculation growing that the Jays could add another starter even after Happ and Estrada signings.

 

Was told Toronto talked to #Brewers today but they have Tulo at SS, Martin at C, both long-term, so not sure what match might be.

 

Retweets from your boi Stoeten.

[crmr]

Industry speculation growing that the Jays could add another starter even after Happ and Estrada signings.

 

Was told Toronto talked to #Brewers today but they have Tulo at SS, Martin at C, both long-term, so not sure what match might be.

 

Retweets from your boi Stoeten.

 

Your post doesn't really give any info about where the industry speculation is from, but they could easily be looking at a reliever

[burlingtonbandit]

Industry speculation growing that the Jays could add another starter even after Happ and Estrada signings.

 

Was told Toronto talked to #Brewers today but they have Tulo at SS, Martin at C, both long-term, so not sure what match might be.

 

Retweets from your boi Stoeten.

 

Jimmy Nelson would be great. Can't see Milwaukee trading him unless its for a big package though.

[highhard2]

stroman

dickey

Estrada

happ

Chavez

hutchison

sanchez

 

osuna

cecil

loup

 

Theres a really good chance that's 10/12 of the 2016 pitching staff. With the possible exception of hutch starting in the minors if he fails to win the 5th starter spot in the spring. So 9/12 minimum. That leaves 2-3 spots open.

 

delebar

tepera

Schultz

Jenkins

Rowen

McFarland

Vindette

 

Expect at least 1 and maybe 2 of these to be considered for the pen.

 

Conclusion: This staff needs one more loogy type. Sipp and Bastardo still available for money only. Sign one of the two plus Chris Davis and call it an off season.

 

Now was that really so complicated?

 

That being said I wouldn't be surprised to see them do f*** all except sign afew minor league contracts with spring training invites.

[Spanky99]

I wouldn't trade Stroman for Fernandez straight up.

 

Wat???

[Spanky99]

obviously. No doubt he's one of the best starters in the game when healthy. I said I'd be in the minority with this opinion but even though Stroman isn't as good the extra 2 years of control are pretty valuable. I also think Stroman is more likely to sign an extension which would make his value go up as oppose to Fernandez who will surely go to FA.

 

Also as good as Fernandez is it would be a PR disaster to trade Stroman. Everyone would be standing outside RC with pitchforks waiting for Shapiro.

 

lol... maybe you would?

[Brenner]

stroman

dickey

Estrada

happ

Chavez

hutchison

sanchez

 

osuna

cecil

loup

 

Theres a really good chance that's 10/12 of the 2016 pitching staff. With the possible exception of hutch starting in the minors if he fails to win the 5th starter spot in the spring. So 9/12 minimum. That leaves 2-3 spots open.

 

delebar

tepera

Schultz

Jenkins

Rowen

McFarland

Vindette

 

Expect at least 1 and maybe 2 of these to be considered for the pen.

 

Conclusion: This staff needs one more loogy type. Sipp and Bastardo still available for money only. Sign one of the two plus Chris Davis and call it an off season.

 

Now was that really so complicated?

 

That being said I wouldn't be surprised to see them do f*** all except sign afew minor league contracts with spring training invites.

 

Osuna, Sanchez, and Cecil plus Chavez/Hutch are the beginning of a good bullpen. But ideally the other guys listed above are all bumped down the depth chart.

[HERPDERP]

Stroman still has to prove he can pitch like an ace or #2, and with that entails being able to pitch over 200 innings.

 

So far we know Stoman can pitch deep into games considerably his arsenal.

[HERPDERP]

Yankees have been awfully quiet so far...

 

Buster Olney Retweeted

Joe Frisaro ‏@JoeFrisaro 2m2 minutes ago

The #Yankees were willing to deal Severino in package w/ #Marlins for Jose. Belief NY doesn't have enough, even if included Bird.

23 retweets 5 likes

Reply Retweet 23

Like 5

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[Boxcar]

Don't you f***ers dare trade Bird to Miami.

[BTS]

Severino and Bird would be two top-10 prospects if they were eligible for lists. If those two aren't enough to build a package, Miami should stop pretending to listen on him.

[burlingtonbandit]

So I got ridiculed for suggesting I wouldn't trade Stroman straight up for Fernandez yesterday. Dave Cameron of FG came out with a piece on Fernandez's value so I thought I'd look at Stroman's projected value. Article can be found here http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/figuring-out-jose-fernandezs-trade-value/

 

When estimating Fernandez's salary for the next 3 years his total projected surplus comes in around 107 Million.

 

Jose Fernandez’s Contract Estimate — 3 yr / $132.6 M

Year Age WAR $/WAR Est. Value

2016 23 5.0 $8.0 M $40.0 M

2017 24 5.3 $8.4 M $44.1 M

2018 25 5.5 $8.8 M $48.5 M

Totals 15.8 $132.6 M

 

 

Marcus Stroman

 

Year WAR $/Win Value Cost surplus

2016 3.5 8 28 0.5 27.5

2017 3.75 8.4 31.5 5 26.5

2018 4 8.8 35.2 9 26.2

2019 4 9.3 37.2 13 24.2

2020 4 9.7 38.8 17 21.8

 

So I looked at Stroman's projected value over the next 5 years and he came in at a projected surplus of 126 Million. Now there is obviously is value in having the better pitcher for 3 years vs 5 because it should be pretty easy to get a 1 Win starter for less than 10 million but these estimates assume Fernandez and Stroman both stay healthy. I think there is a lot more risk in Fernandez's health than Stroman's which isn't reflected in the calculations but should be considered.

 

Also there is the fact that Stroman will be more likely to sign a contract extension than Fernandez who apparently wants to test FA in 3 years (Boras client). You also have to take into consideration that Stroman is one of the young stars of the franchise and that if you trade him there is going to be a ton of backlash from fans and only add to the PR mess that already is. So if you do make a deal with Stroman included, the Blue Jays probably feel that it needs to be a no brainer.

[BTS]

So I got ridiculed for suggesting I wouldn't trade Stroman straight up for Fernandez yesterday. Dave Cameron of FG came out with a piece on Fernandez's value so I thought I'd look at Stroman's projected value. Article can be found here http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/figuring-out-jose-fernandezs-trade-value/

 

When estimating Fernandez's salary for the next 3 years his total projected surplus comes in around 107 Million.

 

Jose Fernandez’s Contract Estimate — 3 yr / $132.6 M

Year Age WAR $/WAR Est. Value

2016 23 5.0 $8.0 M $40.0 M

2017 24 5.3 $8.4 M $44.1 M

2018 25 5.5 $8.8 M $48.5 M

Totals 15.8 $132.6 M

 

 

Marcus Stroman

 

Year WAR $/Win Value Cost surplus

2016 3.5 8 28 0.5 27.5

2017 3.75 8.4 31.5 5 26.5

2018 4 8.8 35.2 9 26.2

2019 4 9.3 37.2 13 24.2

2020 4 9.7 38.8 17 21.8

 

So I looked at Stroman's projected value over the next 5 years and he came in at a projected surplus of 126 Million. Now there is obviously is value in having the better pitcher for 3 years vs 5 because it should be pretty easy to get a 1 Win starter for less than 10 million but these estimates assume Fernandez and Stroman both stay healthy. I think there is a lot more risk in Fernandez's health than Stroman's which isn't reflected in the calculations but should be considered.

 

Also there is the fact that Stroman will be more likely to sign a contract extension than Fernandez who apparently wants to test FA in 3 years (Boras client). You also have to take into consideration that Stroman is one of the young stars of the franchise and that if you trade him there is going to be a ton of backlash from fans and only add to the PR mess that already is. So if you do make a deal with Stroman included, the Blue Jays probably feel that it needs to be a no brainer.

 

No.

[burlingtonbandit]

No.

 

This happens for every team. For a team to trade a franchise player they have to feel like they are winning the trade by a good margin otherwise its not worth it. Teams will always be more attached to their own players.

[Laika]

wow, Bob Nightengale says Zobrist has 4/$80 on the table.

 

Fangraphs crowd thought 3/$42

[Laika]

This happens for every team. For a team to trade a franchise player they have to feel like they are winning the trade by a good margin otherwise its not worth it. Teams will always be more attached to their own players.

 

Stroman isn't a f***ing franchise player.

 

See: Josh Donaldson

[burlingtonbandit]

Stroman isn't a f***ing franchise player.

 

See: Josh Donaldson

 

Sorry "homegrown star". If you are referencing the Donaldson trade, he was one of the only ones in recent memory and the Oakland As are a low payroll team unlike Toronto so I would call those situations different.

[Laika]

Sorry "homegrown star". If you are referencing the Donaldson trade, he was one of the only ones in recent memory and the Oakland As are a low payroll team unlike Toronto so I would call those situations different.

 

ugh

[HERPDERP]

wow, Bob Nightengale says Zobrist has 4/$80 on the table.

 

Fangraphs crowd thought 3/$42

 

Seems like intentionally lying about offers is the new "mystery team" tactic

 

Whatever happened to Samardz and his $100 million offer?

 

Oh yeah, all smoke.

 

If Zobrist were offered $20m a year he would've taken it by now.

[Laika]

Seems like intentionally lying about offers is the new "mystery team" tactic

 

Whatever happened to Samardz and his $100 million offer?

 

Oh yeah, all smoke.

 

If Zobrist were offered $20m a year he would've taken it by now.

 

yes

 

we will see

[burlingtonbandit]

Hopefully Zobrist won't get that much because it will be used as a direct comparison in Bautista contract talks.