Blue Jays sign J.A. Happ 3-years $36M

[Followthelight]

AL East isn't even that tough of a division anymore.

 

It will be in 2016...the red sox are going to be tough (especially if they get price). The rays always give us fits and the orioles always play us tough. Not worried about NY though.

[vilifyingforce]

Fine but that has nothing to do with the J.A. Happ signing. The Happ signing doesn't meant they can't still add to the team. The Happ signing made the team stronger but people are acting like the Jays are subtracting with this move.

 

Reports are that the Jays are done spending on FA's though as they're essentially at the budget limit. If true it's doubtful any impact pitcher will be joining the Jays anytime soon.

[KingKat]

It does because now that limits us getting any significant upgrades that this team needs to win. If the payroll was bigger i'd agree, but it's not.

 

There's plenty of offseason left. You don't know any more than anyone else what other signings or trades might occur. I think the only conclusion you can reach from this is that the Jays won't be going with "all eggs in one basket" approach. I you wanted the Jays to sign Price and no one else than yeah that isn't going to happen because they have already signed someone else.

[Followthelight]

Everyone go look up how well Happ pitched for Pittsburgh before you judge anything. Pittsburgh fixes guys. He was incredible. Maybe he figured some stuff out.

 

And maybe he'll regress and that was the best he'll ever be, what's more likely?

[KingKat]

Reports are that the Jays are done spending on FA's though as they're essentially at the budget limit. If true it's doubtful any impact pitcher will be joining the Jays anytime soon.

 

Well if that's the case then isn't a good thing that they spent the money they had then? What exactly would you have had them do with it?

[Followthelight]

Shark, IwaKuma, Kazmir could have been gotten for not much more, really puzzling unless they think he found something permanent in Pitt. But being in NL ina big park will inflate his numbers somewhat.

[KingKat]

And maybe he'll regress and that was the best he'll ever be, what's more likely?

 

He's not getting paid what a true talent Pittsburgh level J.A. Happ would command. That's merely the upside of the deal. The salary is actually closer to his floor which it what makes it a very safe, conservative move.

[Followthelight]

Well if that's the case then isn't a good thing that they spent the money they had then? What exactly would you have had them do with it?

 

Kazmir, IwaKuma, Shark all could have been had for not much more.....all better options imo. Plus Happ is ugly, hate looking at his face.

[Trouba95]

When has it ever happened that a team only used 5 starters in a single season? It just never happens, you probably need good 6 starters and another 2-3 fringe ones to have a chance.

 

It will be in 2016...the red sox are going to be tough (especially if they get price). The rays always give us fits and the orioles always play us tough. Not worried about NY though.

 

Only Red Sox and Rays are threats. O's will win 75 games.

[KingKat]

Shark, IwaKuma, Kazmir could have been gotten for not much more

 

You don't know that. You don't know that they would sign in Toronto at all much less for how much.

[Followthelight]

You don't know that. You don't know that they would sign in Toronto at all much less for how much.

 

I find that hard to believe with a contending team and godly offense coming into 2016. Don't think people would shy away from TO, especially if they get paid. Lets hope a trade happens.

[BTS]

Shark, IwaKuma, Kazmir could have been gotten for not much more, really puzzling unless they think he found something permanent in Pitt. But being in NL ina big park will inflate his numbers somewhat.

 

Free agency isn't like a store you go to and pay sticker price for whatever is on the shelf. I think we can all assume that they checked in on Lackey and Kuma and were turned down. Samardzija likely makes close to double what was committed to Happ, and might suck. Same with Kazmir.

[xposbrad]

I think Shapiro went cheap on the rotation because he plans on bidding heavily on Maeda. There's no way he goes into the season with this starting rotation and expects to make the playoffs. Shapiro wants to gamble on Maeda and his huge upside. That's the gameplan, for sure.

[Followthelight]

Free agency isn't like a store you go to and pay sticker price for whatever is on the shelf. I think we can all assume that they checked in on Lackey and Kuma and were turned down. Samardzija likely makes close to double what was committed to Happ, and might suck. Same with Kazmir.

 

Quite the fairy tale you created...Tales from your ass, we cannot assume that at all, especially with the jays being one of the best AL teams coming into 2016.

 

I think Shapiro went cheap on the rotation because he plans on bidding heavily on Maeda. There's no way he goes into the season with this starting rotation and expects to make the playoffs. Shapiro wants to gamble on Maeda and his huge upside. That's the gameplan, for sure.

 

LOL prepare to be disappointed.

[BTS]

Gibbers is always posting about how making moves to stimulate fan interest is a fruitless endeavour because the fans will always want more, and we're seeing that now. Acquiring Price at the deadline for a exciting run wasn't enough. People are pissed that he's not being retained. Spend more money. Trade more of the future. Who are the Phillies?

[vilifyingforce]

Well if that's the case then isn't a good thing that they spent the money they had then? What exactly would you have had them do with it?

 

I wasn't criticizing the signing, was simply saying that the reports are that they're at or very near their limit and it's likely they won't be adding anymore to the rotation.

[BTS]

Quite the fairy tale you created...Tales from your ass, we cannot assume that at all, especially with the jays being one of the best AL teams coming into 2016

 

If Lackey and Kuma were willing to sign here for slightly more than Happ they'd be blue Jays right now. Kuma most likely stays in Seattle, and Lackey in the NL somewhere. It's stupid to criticize the team for specific players they don't sign.

[Atothe]

If Lackey and Kuma were willing to sign here for slightly more than Happ they'd be blue Jays right now. Kuma most likely stays in Seattle, and Lackey in the NL somewhere. It's stupid to criticize the team for specific players they don't sign.

 

MJ isn't looking to be rational.

[xposbrad]

Gibbers is always posting about how making moves to stimulate fan interest is a fruitless endeavour because the fans will always want more, and we're seeing that now. Acquiring Price at the deadline for a exciting run wasn't enough. People are pissed that he's not being retained. Spend more money. Trade more of the future. Who are the Phillies?

 

Exciting run? The first time in 20+ years, how can you not blame the fans? AA already gutted the farm, the jays are all in now with no plans to rebuild. If this team had a different composition with much younger guys and had studs in the minors and we were 2-3 years from competing the fans wouldn't be as aggressive on winning now. Except, that's not the case. There's a window and it will be closing fast, then the Blue Jays will be filled with very expensive 30+ year olds on the decline. Most people will accept overpaid players in 4-5 years (perhaps a guy like Price) if it meant winning the next 1-2 years and possibly a WS. But, I don't do the accounting for Rogers, maybe it makes sense to be competitive but not win it all and save a few shekels.

[o2cui2i]

If Lackey and Kuma were willing to sign here for slightly more than Happ they'd be blue Jays right now. Kuma most likely stays in Seattle, and Lackey in the NL somewhere. It's stupid to criticize the team for specific players they don't sign.

 

you mean players won't come for less money =mind blown. lol

 

every year fans think they understand the workings of the trades.

[nextyear]

The Royals were 12th in ERA-, 13th in FIP- and 14th in xFIP-. We've gone through this many times. It's true. Please believe it this time. They didn't have a good rotation. That doesn't mean anything for the Blue Jays, though. This idea that we need previous teams to "prove" that a roster concept works is folly. The Jays have a great team and added a good player.

 

This doesn't mean much because they had a fantastic bullpen that compensated for their mediocre starting pitching. They were 1st in ERA for relievers - http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=al&qual=0&type=8&season=2015&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=15,a and their relievers lead the AL in number of innings pitched with 539.1 innings. The Royals' starters pitched 912.2 innings, so their relievers pitched 37% of the innings (3.1 innings per game). In addition, their positional defense was by far the best - http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=al&qual=0&type=1&season=2015&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

Having a mediocre starting pitching rotation doesn't mean that the Royals' overall pitching/defense was mediocre.

 

In any case, I think the Blue Jays will have a decent overall pitching/defense in 2016 and with their above average offense will have a good chance to get back into the playoffs.

[Frag]

From a value standpoint, the signing makes sense even if Happ performs like an average pitcher. If Happ's mechanical changes translate to a better performance long-term, even better.

[Angrioter]

Worst Jays Fan ever:

 

A)

To go along with what may be the worst rotation 1-5 in all of baseball.

 

[Grant77]

Free agency isn't like a store you go to and pay sticker price for whatever is on the shelf. I think we can all assume that they checked in on Lackey and Kuma and were turned down. Samardzija likely makes close to double what was committed to Happ, and might suck. Same with Kazmir.

 

The one thing that bugs me is that people understand this now, but they bitched about it for years under AA and JP. Ten years between Burnett and Happ surely wasn't by design under 2 different regimes. I'm not trying to compare the GM's or anything, what's done is done, but it's really been a double standard so far. I'm glad that fans are finally getting a better understanding of the challenges of being a GM here.

[Frag]

Steamer projections for our rotation next year:

 

Stroman: 3.4

Happ: 1.9

Dickey: 1.1 (Mind you, knuckleballer may have better value than FIP shows)

Chavez: 2.0

Estrada: 0.6

 

Plus, Hutch: 1.4

 

There may not be another terrific SP after Stroman, but at least there's depth.

[BTS]

Exciting run? The first time in 20+ years, how can you not blame the fans? AA already gutted the farm, the jays are all in now with no plans to rebuild. If this team had a different composition with much younger guys and had studs in the minors and we were 2-3 years from competing the fans wouldn't be as aggressive on winning now. Except, that's not the case. There's a window and it will be closing fast, then the Blue Jays will be filled with very expensive 30+ year olds on the decline. Most people will accept overpaid players in 4-5 years (perhaps a guy like Price) if it meant winning the next 1-2 years and possibly a WS. But, I don't do the accounting for Rogers, maybe it makes sense to be competitive but not win it all and save a few shekels.

 

Are you new to the forum? Price is just the most recent player that the fans are grumbling about not signing. It happens every offseason, regardless of where the team is. People were livid when the team didn't sign Prince Fielder.

[GD]

Steamer projections for our rotation next year:

 

Stroman: 3.4

Happ: 1.9

Dickey: 1.1 (Mind you, knuckleballer may have better value than FIP shows)

Chavez: 2.0

Estrada: 0.6

 

Plus, Hutch: 1.4

 

There may not be another terrific SP after Stroman, but at least there's depth.

 

Estrada also probably has better value than that. It's a nice rotation.

[Grant77]

Steamer projections for our rotation next year:

 

Stroman: 3.4

Happ: 1.9

Dickey: 1.1 (Mind you, knuckleballer may have better value than FIP shows)

Chavez: 2.0

Estrada: 0.6

 

Plus, Hutch: 1.4

 

There may not be another terrific SP after Stroman, but at least there's depth.

 

I think the same could be said for Estrada.

[gbill2004]

Yup. Trade Edwin for a starter and suddenly everyone is happy (and the team is worse)

Edwin pretty much = Colabello for a fraction the cost.

[BTS]

The one thing that bugs me is that people understand this now, but they bitched about it for years under AA and JP. Ten years between Burnett and Happ surely wasn't by design under 2 different regimes. I'm not trying to compare the GM's or anything, what's done is done, but it's really been a double standard so far. I'm glad that fans are finally getting a better understanding of the challenges of being a GM here.

 

I actually don't think AA had much interest in free agency. He kept talking about how he preferred the trade route. I personally love dipping into the low-mid tier part of the pool.