Trading a power bat might be the solution

[CHRIS]

I think trading Tulo only makes sense if payroll is going down, which a lot of people think is going to happen, despite Shapiro and LaCava both stating otherwise.

 

I really don't want to see us have to burn through the Tollesons and Kawasakis of the world again.

[FrozenRopes]

We have an elite ss and people want to deal him? How about we see what we have first. He is a gamer, like Donaldson, so ride them and see.

[The Cats Ass]

Trading Tulo is a justifiable move.

 

- Steamer predicts 3.7 WAR from Tulo over 138 games. In his 8 season career, Tulo has eclipsed 138 games 3 times.

- Goins played 128 games in 2015. Despite this, the Jays won ALE.

- Goins over full season should return 1.5 WAR. The difference between Tulo's and Goins' salary is roughly equal to the projected WAR difference, using $9M/WAR

- A healthy Travis will make up most, if not all of Tulo's value at the plate.

- As currently structured, Jays should be AL offensive leader, and bottom 5 pitching.

- Moving the $20M Tulo is owed will return value and free up salary.

- Moving the $20M increases the money available for pitching to roughly $50M, allowing someone like Greinke (yes, pipe dream) to be signed.

- PR hit from trading Tulo manageable.

 

Slag away, or better yet, make a counterargument.

 

Why do you want to take away our depth? If you trade Tulo and Travis gets injured again who is going to play 2B? Do you know how s***** of a middle infield that would leave us with. It's perfectly fine to use Goins as he should be, which is a back-up infielder and an injury replacement.

[Jimcanuck]

Why do you want to take away our depth? If you trade Tulo and Travis gets injured again who is going to play 2B? Do you know how s***** of a middle infield that would leave us with. It's perfectly fine to use Goins as he should be, which is a back-up infielder and an injury replacement.

 

Because we have a giant SP hole. At least 2, and preferably 3 SP are needed.

 

Why 3? Historically the 6th starter has started 20 games.

[Stangstag]

Because we have a giant SP hole.

 

Which can be filled through free agency quite easily.

[The Cats Ass]

Because we have a giant SP hole. At least 2, and preferably 3 SP are needed.

 

Why 3? Historically the 6th starter has started 20 games.

 

Free agency? There are a ton of starters available this year. And we really only need 2, 1 if Estrada takes the QO. One of Sanchez or Osuna should be transitioned into starting this year.

[fatcowxlive]

He's an argument: Tulo has very little trade value right now. He is in decline and his salary basically makes him a zero value asset.

 

Well it took the Rockies eating Reyes' contract for them to get Hoffman and Castro so that points to your argument, however he still netted 12.8 fWAR the past 3 seasons. I think there's still maybe a few GMs who would give up good pieces for him, if they have the Budget space of course

[Jimcanuck]

Which can be filled through free agency quite easily.

 

And the quality of which depends on budget, which none of us know. Depending on the budget, Tulo's $20M may or may not be manageable.

 

I certainly hope we don't end up with Stroman and a bunch of #4/5 starters in 2016. Dickey is a #4, Hutch is a #5 with upside, Osuna/Sanchez can't be counted on for more than ~15 starts, nor can it be expected they perform as a SP better than a #4.

 

And wrt the potential $15.8M starter Estrada, realistically he should be considered a #4 starter based on peripherals.

[Candide]

realistically, and most sensibly, keep all of the core position guys (Bautista, Encarnacion, Martin, Donaldson, Tulowitzki). Sign one semi-premium starter (Zimmerman, Cueto, Shark), re-sign Estrada. Hope that one of Sanchez/Osuna/Hutch can fill the #5 role. Sign 2 BP guys. Give 2016 another run with Travis back and a bounceback year for Tulowitzki.

 

2016 is a whole different matter. I'd want to keep Bautista and Encarnacion since I don't see their games falling off a cliff - but am fully aware that this is not realistic salary wise. cross that bridge when we get there. Unlike some others on this post, I'm optimistic that the Jays can win the AL East next year with 1 FA arm, a re-signed Estrada, a Tulowitzki playing to career norms, the return of Travis, and finding a solid #5 from within.

[burlingtonbandit]

He's an argument: Tulo has very little trade value right now. He is in decline and his salary basically makes him a zero value asset.

 

His salary isn't as bad as what people make it out to be. 20 Million isn't much now a days and in a few years will be what 12-15 million is now. Hardly a zero-asset. If Jeff Samardzija is going to get $75-80 million after a subpar season with the QO attached then Tulo is getting a ton more than 5/100 even though he had a bad year.

 

And besides, this would be a terrible time to trade him as there aren't any better options to replace him with.

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/free-agency-hot-stove-rumors-contracts-busts-david-price-zack-greinke-davis-weaver-werth-111115

[Cyborg]

He's an argument: Tulo has very little trade value right now. He is in decline and his salary basically makes him a zero value asset.

Or he has around $30M in surplus.

[GD]

Or he has around $30M in surplus.

 

Does that discount for risk

[Brownie19]

Tulo had a 1.4 WAR for us in 183 PA. Prorated to 600 PAs and it's about 4 WAR. This is with a 91 wRC+. His career wRC+ is 123.

 

His contract is basically 5/100M for us. At $10M/a win he needs 10 WAR over 5 years for us to justify the contract. He could do that in 2 years ffs.

 

I love the anger in this very solid post...bravo.

[Spanky99]

He won't be.

 

It might be the best thing to do...but I don't see it happening.

 

Exactly, it sure as f*** isn't happening this year.

[Spanky99]

Well it took the Rockies eating Reyes' contract for them to get Hoffman and Castro so that points to your argument, however he still netted 12.8 fWAR the past 3 seasons. I think there's still maybe a few GMs who would give up good pieces for him, if they have the Budget space of course

 

Tulo has to okay any trade, brah! NTC...

[Spanky99]

I love the anger in this very solid post...bravo.

 

Yeah, that's an end discussion, if I ever saw one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although, Jim will be back.

[FrozenRopes]

I was listening to a FL sports show and they talked about adding a midpower bat that can play first and hit left handers. Cola came up, do the Marlins have any relievers of interest?

[BTS]

The Marlins have the best reliever in baseball, Carter Capps.

 

Mods

[BTS]

Eric Gagne was such a monster

[BTS]

They used him every other game too. Gagne racked up an amazing 11.5 WAR in those three seasons.

 

16.5 WPA over those three years. That's just silly.

[burlingtonbandit]

Over/Under on Capps staying healthy with that delivery 1.5 years.

[THANOS]

The list of 20% SwStr% seasons is pretty short. And Capps leads all seasons with data, minimum 30 IP (not a full season but Capps threw 445 pitches, a legitimate sample).

 

 

Capps' breaking ball was tracking at a ~25% contact rate. Absurd. I wonder if the Marlins would consider this swap.

 

Of course anything's possible, but I would imagine the Marlins would be well aware of how good Capps is and would demand more than just Cola. That said, if that's all they wanted, I would deliver him with a bow on his head and a gift basket to Loria's front door.

 

Capps and hopefully Bastardo and Lowe could allow us to use Osuna and Sanchez as depth starters in AAA to get their innings in, and to be 1st in line for a callup if Hutch falters again/injury.

[Smokingjays1111]

Pillar and Sanchez for Shelby miller

[Cyborg]

Miller has nothing pointing to being a DIPS beater. No thank you.

[Dr. Dinger]

Over/Under on Capps staying healthy with that delivery 1.5 years.

 

Isn't he already hurt? He had elbow problems in early September and never returned. I smell TJS in the very near future.

[Brownie19]

Eric Gagne was such a monster

 

Roids will do that to you...

[BTS]

Roids will do that to you...

 

Roids will give you possibly the best 3-year stretch of relief pitching in history? I'd say talent had a fair bit to do with it.

[Captain Adama]

Roids will give you possibly the best 3-year stretch of relief pitching in history? I'd say talent had a fair bit to do with it.

 

Don't you know that roids will do everything for you? They make you stronger, recover faster, see the ball better, hit the ball better and make your dick bigger.

 

It's why everyone takes them! Including superstars like Alex Sanchez!

[GoJays]

Every players has his price. If Desmond has signed elsewhere and the Mets offered Wheeler, Montero, Alvarez and Amed Rosario for Tulo and 15 mil I would do that deal.

 

Then they announce Travis,s surgery. As that one poster would say " I,m Dumm "

Edited November 20, 2015 by GoJays