IYO: Would you trade Hutchison, Alford, Castro and Boyd for Carlos Carrasco?

[TwistedLogic]

With trade deadline season seemingly right about to pop, I thought it'd be a good time to try and spark some discussion and get people's opinions on what they think about certain players or trade possibilities. IYO stands for "In Your Opinion"; if it turns out that people aren't interested in this kind of thing, then this thread could be a one-off. If it does create some discussion, then maybe we can have somewhat of a series, where periodically we post a thread to gather opinions and to try and generate some general baseball discussion.

 

I didn't research the Indians needs, I'm not sure if they'd say yes to this package, I'm not even sure Carrasco is really available on the market. There's absolutely no rhyme or reason to the package I put together, other than the simple fact that I tried to match the Donaldson trade as well as I could, and thought that I'd get your opinions on if you'd make a similar trade once again. Feel free to comment on how you think Carrasco's value compares to what Donaldson's was at the time he was traded, whether or not you think the Jays bought Donaldson below his market value and how you would compensate for that in a trade for Carrasco, and if you think there are prospects in the Jays system closer to the value of the guys the Jays gave up in that trade than what I listed above.

 

Bonus question: If you answered no to the trade proposal above, would you say yes if it was for Chris Archer instead?

[Angrioter]

Hutchison #3

Alford top25 prospect

Castro top80 prospect

Boyd top125 prospect

[baubau]

So a no. 3 starter (Hutch), bullpen guy (Castro), starter/bullpen (Boyd) and a 4th OF or better (Alford).

 

Yes. I would that easily. The fact that the Jays keep Pompey, Norris, Osuna and Hoffman still leaves them with decent depth. Carrasco is under control till 2020 at a team friendly contract. The value he provides will likely outweigh the 4 given. If we could sub in Sanchez instead of Boyd or Alford, that would be a lot more gravy.

 

E: ^ what they said as well.

[BlueJaysCC]

No to Hutch in that scenario, I would rather keep Hutch. The Jays could include SRF instead.

[baubau]

No to Hutch in that scenario, I would rather keep Hutch. The Jays could include SRF instead.

 

What? How is a Hutch = SRF? You'd be subbing in Norris/Hoffman + instead.

[BlueJaysCC]

What? How is a Hutch = SRF? You'd be subbing in Norris/Hoffman + instead.

 

Doesn't SRF have a similar ceiling to Hutch or am, I wrong?

[TwistedLogic]

So a no. 3 starter (Hutch), bullpen guy (Castro), starter/bullpen (Boyd) and a 4th OF or better (Alford).

 

Yes. I would that easily. The fact that the Jays keep Pompey, Norris, Osuna and Hoffman still leaves them with decent depth. Carrasco is under control till 2020 at a team friendly contract. The value he provides will outweigh the 4 given. If we could sub in Sanchez instead of Boyd or Alford, that would be a lot more gravy.

 

E: ^ what they said as well.

 

Yeah I think Hutch is close in value to what Lawrie was at the time of the Donaldson trade. Boyd and Castro are probably more valuable than Graveman and Nolin were (I don't think the difference is substantial) and while I liken Alford to Barreto in that they were both very athletic, very high upside guys on the cusp of breaking out, I recognize that Alford's nearer proximity to the majors and more advanced skillset probably puts him at a cut above.

 

All in all, I think this package has more present value than what the Donaldson package did, and I don't think Carrasco is in the same league as Donaldson, but I do put a premium on Carrasco's brilliant extension (5 additional years, far below market value) and the Jays need for starting pitching.

 

On paper, I would make this deal very easily. In the real world, I'd probably pussy out and balk at the idea of giving up Alford (which is why I'd make a terrible GM).

[TwistedLogic]

Doesn't SRF have a similar ceiling to Hutch or am, I wrong?

 

Even though Hutchison has yet to meet his ceiling, you'd be extremely fortunate to even get Foley to where Hutch already is.

[BlueJaysCC]

Even though Hutchison has yet to meet his ceiling, you'd be extremely fortunate to even get Foley to where Hutch already is.

 

Okay, thanks for clearing that up, I thought SRF's ceiling was as a number 2 or 3 starter. I am just a little bit weary of giving up Hutch despite his inconsistencies he is a good pitcher.

Edited July 24, 2015 by BlueJaysCC
Spelling

[baubau]

Doesn't SRF have a similar ceiling to Hutch or am, I wrong?

 

Ceiling =/= results. Team don't value the "what if" when giving up a player like Carrasco.

 

Imagine it this way, you where going to trades in shares of a stock to diversify your positions. Your stock is worth $1,000 and you were offered 4 different stocks each worth $250 for it. Imagine instead I said I'd take away one of those stocks and give you one worth $50 that could reach $250. Would you take the risk? The "potential" is there but do you want to sit on for years before it gets to where the other one already was?

 

For the peeps that trade here, if any, yes I know this isn't know the stock market works but giving a example.

 

In the real world, I'd probably pussy out and balk at the idea of giving up Alford (which is why I'd make a terrible GM).

 

You're weak, weak TL! Just get the other GM drunk and try to slip Sanchez by them instead.

[TwistedLogic]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up, I thought SRF's ceiling was as a number 2 or 3 starter. I am just a little bit weary of giving up Hutch despite his inconsistencies he is a good pitcher.

 

That probably is around where you'd put Foley's ceiling, but the fact is that Hutchison is already there. He's already pitching like a #3 starter. We can't really say that Hutch = SRF in trade value, because Foley is still a long way from matching Hutchison; they're not interchangeable. For all we know, Foley might never even make the majors.

[Caper]

Pretty good package TL... It sounds like you are thinking like AA might.

[BlueJaysCC]

That probably is around where you'd put Foley's ceiling, but the fact is that Hutchison is already there. He's already pitching like a #3 starter. We can't really say that Hutch = SRF in trade value, because Foley is still a long way from matching Hutchison; they're not interchangeable. For all we know, Foley might never even make the majors.

True it would also depend on how the Indians value the Jays major league talent and prospects.

[Hipfan]

Don't like giving up Alford. Jays don't have a lot of position player depth and they need some younger guys to come up through the system. I'd rather give up Hoffman, instead of Alford.

[BlueJaysCC]

Don't like giving up Alford. Jays don't have a lot of position player depth and they need some younger guys to come up through the system. I'd rather give up Hoffman, instead of Alford.

The Jays can afford and would be willing to fill positional players via freeagency. The problem with freeagency is the cost of pitching it is much cheaper to draft and develop and or trade for pitching as the market rate for an ace is probably 180-200+ million over 6 or 7 years. The Jays can always restock the farm system through the draft as AA has done.

[TwistedLogic]

Pretty good package TL.

 

Thanks.

 

http://i.imgur.com/9Jti2Z2.png

[Captain Adama]

I would lol at anyone who says no at that package for Archer.

[Angrioter]

I would lol at anyone who says no at that package for Archer.

 

You're despising Hutchison

[SAAviour]

I can't bring myself to vote, going back and forth between yes and no. Probably means it's a fair trade.

 

My problem with it is Alford could turn into a beast and if he keeps this up in AA and AAA then we will be selling low despite his hot streak.

 

I wonder if Tribe fans would laugh at that offer...

[Boxcar]

Carlos Carrasco is pretty much an ace on a stupid good contract for like 5 years. Whatever beast Alford might become is fully worth the trade off.

[burlingtonbandit]

I feel like Cleveland will insist Stroman is part of the package. Makes them better for 2016 and the Jays for 2015. So question for those who answered yes/no to OP..

 

Would you trade Stroman, Boyd and Castro for Carrasco?

[baubau]

I feel like Cleveland will insist Stroman is part of the package. Makes them better for 2016 and the Jays for 2015. So question for those who answered yes/no to OP..

 

Would you trade Stroman, Boyd and Castro for Carrasco?

 

Stroman? No. I am weak too TL.

[SomeClevelandFan]

I can't bring myself to vote, going back and forth between yes and no. Probably means it's a fair trade.

 

My problem with it is Alford could turn into a beast and if he keeps this up in AA and AAA then we will be selling low despite his hot streak.

 

I wonder if Tribe fans would laugh at that offer...

 

First off, Hi Folks! I decided to browse this Message board as I'm curious as to what Jay's fans would be willing to give up for Carrasco. I figured I'd give my opinion on this package!

 

I definitely wouldn't laugh at the offer - but I can guarantee that Chris Antonetti is expecting either an MLB Ready bat or near it. I would expect that for him to deal Carrasco on such an insanely team friendly contract - it would almost have to include Pompey. One thing about our current farm system is that our two top prospects are both CFers (Clint Frazier and Bradley Zimmer) but aren't anywhere near MLB ready. I personally would expect, in terms of how our GM operates that he would want Pompey, a quality AA starter (such as Hoffman, but possibly SRF), and another hitting prospect (Alford). I would love to get Alford from you guys as his approach to baseball since becoming a one sport player has been fantastic. It sounds like a big package but your offense clearly doesn't need any help as you lead the entire MLB in runs by a ton and wouldn't lose any of that offense by trading Pompey.

 

The other thing to note - The Tribe already has depth with starters that will perform as well as Hutchinson which means he wouldn't want another guy like that in a trade. I'll be honest, I don't know much about Boyd. I know he's been stellar this season through AA and AAA so far, but once again if the Tribe trades Carrasco the centerpiece most definitely will be a bat as our offense has been horrible.

[baubau]

First off, Hi Folks! I decided to browse this Message board as I'm curious as to what Jay's fans would be willing to give up for Carrasco. I figured I'd give my opinion on this package!

 

I definitely wouldn't laugh at the offer - but I can guarantee that Chris Antonetti is expecting either an MLB Ready bat or near it. I would expect that for him to deal Carrasco on such an insanely team friendly contract - it would almost have to include Pompey. One thing about our current farm system is that our two top prospects are both CFers (Clint Frazier and Bradley Zimmer) but aren't anywhere near MLB ready. I personally would expect, in terms of how our GM operates that he would want Pompey, a quality AA starter (such as Hoffman, but possibly SRF), and another hitting prospect (Alford). I would love to get Alford from you guys as his approach to baseball since becoming a one sport player has been fantastic. It sounds like a big package but your offense clearly doesn't need any help as you lead the entire MLB in runs by a ton and wouldn't lose any of that offense by trading Pompey.

 

The other thing to note - The Tribe already has depth with starters that will perform as well as Hutchinson which means he wouldn't want another guy like that in a trade. I'll be honest, I don't know much about Boyd. I know he's been stellar this season through AA and AAA so far, but once again if the Tribe trades Carrasco the centerpiece most definitely will be a bat as our offense has been horrible.

 

Hey, thanks for stopping by and giving input. There is always speculation on our end on what other teams want but its always great having the other side's perspective.

 

Pompey + Alford may be a little deep on our end. Not because I wouldn't do it, but because outside of Pillar this team really doesn't have a future plan in the OF. Saunder's future is questionable and Bautista may move to DH/1st B in the near future. While neither Pompey or Alfrod are guaranteed to succeed in the ML, I would imagine the team still needs depth. Otherwise we'll continue to have scrubs like Colabello and Carrera out there which has cost the team games.

 

I would put in Tellez or Pentacoast (not sure how high he might be with all of his injuries and setbacks) if the Tribe would be at all interested instead of Alfrod. I am a little surprised to hear that the Indians wouldn't want another Hutch. With Kluber, Bauer and Salazr leading the way I'd figure Hutch would go well on the 4/5th role and thrive on it that you can trade the other pieces but that is far. Shows how much I may know.

[SomeClevelandFan]

Hey, thanks for stopping by and giving input. There is always speculation on our end on what other teams want but its always great having the other side's perspective.

 

Pompey + Alford may be a little deep on our end. Not because I wouldn't do it, but because outside of Pillar this team really doesn't have a future plan in the OF. Saunder's future is questionable and Bautista may move to DH/1st B in the near future. While neither Pompey or Alfrod are guaranteed to succeed in the ML, I would imagine the team still needs depth. Otherwise we'll continue to have scrubs like Colabello and Carrera out there which has cost the team games.

 

I would put in Tellez or Pentacoast (not sure how high he might be with all of his injuries and setbacks) if the Tribe would be at all interested instead of Alfrod. I am a little surprised to hear that the Indians wouldn't want another Hutch. With Kluber, Bauer and Salazr leading the way I'd figure Hutch would go well on the 4/5th role and thrive on it that you can trade the other pieces but that is far. Shows how much I may know.

 

Well, I will say I was thinking Hutch was older than 24, but even then we have some guys like McAllister, Marcum and pretty soon House and Tomlin will all be options when they return from the DL. And Cody Anderson has been pretty good since getting the call up as well.

 

Antonetti usually only makes trades if we are getting a MLB ready player in return. The Gomes trade is an example of that. On top of that, our worse overall position player is Bourn and we need a replacement for him. That's where Pompey comes into play. I'd imagine with Frazier and Zimmer making good progress, at the very least Antonetti would want Pompey and a starter vs Pompey and Alford (another OF prospect). Deep down though, I think Alford is going to be an amazing player.

 

Edit: I forgot to add that I also would be interested in Pentecost if he can play 1B as well. After all, we just signed that six year extension with Gomes and Carlos Santana isn't living up to the hype nor is he going to be on the team in a couple years.

[flafson]

Feels like a Donaldson type prospects... Is he as good as Donaldson? Take Castro off the list and it's a deal IMO.

[RealAccountant]

Anyone saying no....

[Atothe]

Feels like a Donaldson type prospects... Is he as good as Donaldson? Take Castro off the list and it's a deal IMO.

 

Why Castro and not Hutch or Alford? I think they're better longterm

[TwistedLogic]

First off, Hi Folks! I decided to browse this Message board as I'm curious as to what Jay's fans would be willing to give up for Carrasco. I figured I'd give my opinion on this package!

 

I definitely wouldn't laugh at the offer - but I can guarantee that Chris Antonetti is expecting either an MLB Ready bat or near it. I would expect that for him to deal Carrasco on such an insanely team friendly contract - it would almost have to include Pompey. One thing about our current farm system is that our two top prospects are both CFers (Clint Frazier and Bradley Zimmer) but aren't anywhere near MLB ready. I personally would expect, in terms of how our GM operates that he would want Pompey, a quality AA starter (such as Hoffman, but possibly SRF), and another hitting prospect (Alford). I would love to get Alford from you guys as his approach to baseball since becoming a one sport player has been fantastic. It sounds like a big package but your offense clearly doesn't need any help as you lead the entire MLB in runs by a ton and wouldn't lose any of that offense by trading Pompey.

 

The other thing to note - The Tribe already has depth with starters that will perform as well as Hutchinson which means he wouldn't want another guy like that in a trade. I'll be honest, I don't know much about Boyd. I know he's been stellar this season through AA and AAA so far, but once again if the Tribe trades Carrasco the centerpiece most definitely will be a bat as our offense has been horrible.

 

Thanks for stopping by and adding to the discussion!

 

First off, I'd just like to clear up that the purpose of this thread was only to create a package similar to what we gave up to Donaldson, to see if people would make that kind of deal again if they had a chance to reflect on it first. Realistically, I know a package for Carrasco would probably look nothing like this, especially because I don't see the Jays dropping Hutchison in a playoff hunt.

 

Most of us here would be open to moving Pompey in a trade for a guy like Carrasco. The only young position player in the entire system that I probably wouldn't move is Travis. Even though it would kill me to move Alford or Hoffman (both guys have an unreal amount of upside), a package of Pompey, Travis and Hoffman for Carrasco would be very hard to turn down. That being said, I do think that from the Indians perspective, they could probably ask for more than that, and if the Jays aren't comfortable raising the offer, you could probably get it from another club.

 

Lastly, can I ask how you found our forum? It'd be great if there was something we could do to attract more people here.

[Atothe]

Thanks for stopping by and adding to the discussion!

 

First off, I'd just like to clear up that the purpose of this thread was only to create a package similar to what we gave up to Donaldson, to see if people would make that kind of deal again if they had a chance to reflect on it first. Realistically, I know a package for Carrasco would probably look nothing like this, especially because I don't see the Jays dropping Hutchison in a playoff hunt.

 

Most of us here would be open to moving Pompey in a trade for a guy like Carrasco. The only young position player in the entire system that I probably wouldn't move is Travis. Even though it would kill me to move Alford or Hoffman (both guys have an unreal amount of upside), a package of Pompey, Travis and Hoffman for Carrasco would be very hard to turn down. That being said, I do think that from the Indians perspective, they could probably ask for more than that, and if the Jays aren't comfortable raising the offer, you could probably get it from another club.

 

Lastly, can I ask how you found our forum? It'd be great if there was something we could do to attract more people here.

 

Travis is shouldn't be on the table, one of two everyday players on the team under 30. If you're trading Pompey then Alford is off the table. Would definitely include Hoffman to offset one of the others. Pompey + Hoffman + SRF + third b prospect