AA "starter over reliever"

[closetjaysfan]

According to just about every Fangraphs metric, our BP is MLB average 14th-16th overall where as our starting pitching is a MLB 3rd-5th WORST. The bullpen is serviceable but our starting pitching sucks. For those clamoring for AA's head just remember that we have the best offense by far in MLB and it is difficult to attract free agent pitching to the AL let alone the rogers centre.

[closetjaysfan]

Can I get this post blown up in bolded 72 font?

 

It's like no one understands this.

 

IMO its video games and fantasy pools that are the problem. People that can fool an imperfect AI into making a trade simply by adding more chips to the pile or tricking some 14 year old girl on their MLB.com fantasy pool think they have the GM thing figured out.

[Dick_Pole]

The only reason he says that is because usually during phone interviews, he is smashing a souvlaki with loads of tziki.

 

Man, I wish AA was a black guy so we could have 4 years of socially acceptable stereotypical posts about his love for fried chicken and watermelon that never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever get old and tired.

[Smokey]

Incorrect. Sanchez is a good pitcher

 

Sanchez had a great xFIP in the four starts before he got hurt. That's a FACT.

 

But his xFIP isn't through the roof and he's been unlucky with fly balls.

 

He's got the "stuff" and ground ball abilities to be a great starter if he can improve his command. I'm on board, you're clearly not

 

So he's a good pitcher because of his xFIP in the last 4 games, and although his stats are s*****, he's been unlucky and has the stuff to be great if he could only magically improve his command... Is that what you're saying?? Cause that would make you a f***ing idiot!!

[theblujay]

So he's a good pitcher because of his xFIP in the last 4 games, and although his stats are s*****, he's been unlucky and has the stuff to be great if he could only magically improve his command... Is that what you're saying?? Cause that would make you a f***ing idiot!!

 

Not magically improve. Improve like any other young player can improve.

[Atothe]

Not magically improve. Improve like any other young player can improve.

 

To be fair Smokey has a point you can't cherry pick stats. Sanchez has to show an entire seasons' worth of decent command to say he's over the bad command

[theblujay]

To be fair Smokey has a point you can't cherry pick stats. Sanchez has to show an entire seasons' worth of decent command to say he's over the bad command

 

I'm not saying he already has good command from four starts, but that he had four better starts before getting hurt and has he potential to improve

[Smokey]

Not magically improve. Improve like any other young player can improve.

 

But this is the get it done league and it's not reasonable to expect an unproven pitcher like Sanchez to significantly improve his command mid season. Besides, he's already at 66 innings for the year and I don't think he's ever gone more than 100 innings as a professional. So in addition to command issues, he hasn't even been proven to be durable enough to be realistically expected to provide much value down the stretch. He is just not a very good pitcher.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Smokey

[ScientificReason]

A started is more important agree, getting a starter moves sanchez in the pen. Also helps the pen as it would mean a more well rested pen assuming the starter is a top flight starter.

[ScientificReason]

Sanchez had a great xFIP in the four starts before he got hurt. That's a FACT.

 

4 starts ROFL.

[Brownie19]

According to just about every Fangraphs metric, our BP is MLB average 14th-16th overall where as our starting pitching is a MLB 3rd-5th WORST. The bullpen is serviceable but our starting pitching sucks. For those clamoring for AA's head just remember that we have the best offense by far in MLB and it is difficult to attract free agent pitching to the AL let alone the rogers centre.

 

IMO its video games and fantasy pools that are the problem. People that can fool an imperfect AI into making a trade simply by adding more chips to the pile or tricking some 14 year old girl on their MLB.com fantasy pool think they have the GM thing figured out.

 

2 fantastic posts...

[KingKat]

Man, I wish AA was a black guy so we could have 4 years of socially acceptable stereotypical posts about his love for fried chicken and watermelon that never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever get old and tired.

 

Probably your best post.

[z3r0s]

Man, I wish AA was a black guy so we could have 4 years of socially acceptable stereotypical posts about his love for fried chicken and watermelon that never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever get old and tired.

 

lol, that's fantastic

[JohnnyLonghorn]

Man, I wish AA was a black guy so we could have 4 years of socially acceptable stereotypical posts about his love for fried chicken and watermelon that never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever get old and tired.

 

Thats golden

[Deadpool]

4 starts ROFL.

 

I'm okay with 4 starts that are trending in the right direction. I'm not sold on Sanchez, but he has been showing slow, steady improvement over the season (he's still hot garbage, but trending away from that.)

[ScientificReason]

I'm okay with 4 starts that are trending in the right direction. I'm not sold on Sanchez, but he has been showing slow, steady improvement over the season (he's still hot garbage, but trending away from that.)

 

Is he slated to make his next start?

[Deadpool]

Is he slated to make his next start?

 

I have no more insight into that than you do. I'm just slightly encouraged by the fact that he had been getting a little bit better in every start, walks going down, K's going up.. Good signs. Still a LONG way to go before he's a guy I'd feel comfortable with.

[Spanky99]

But this is the get it done league and it's not reasonable to expect an unproven pitcher like Sanchez to significantly improve his command mid season. Besides, he's already at 66 innings for the year and I don't think he's ever gone more than 100 innings as a professional. So in addition to command issues, he hasn't even been proven to be durable enough to be realistically expected to provide much value down the stretch. He is just not a very good pitcher.

 

You just absolutely rekt him, lol.

[Spanky99]

I have no more insight into that than you do. I'm just slightly encouraged by the fact that he had been getting a little bit better in every start, walks going down, K's going up.. Good signs. Still a LONG way to go before he's a guy I'd feel comfortable with.

 

I read today that Walker said he hopes he's good for the 2nd half, kid's in trouble, period.

[Dick_Pole]

Probably your best post.

 

Ha well, when it gets to the point where something is enough for me, I start putting my thinking cap on. Every AA thread has at least one and usually multiple posts about his supposed eating habits and heritage. If it helps to get people to think about what they are saying and phase out the casual acceptance of these dumb troll posts then that's my positive contribution to this board I guess.

 

There's no other way to describe these posts than as racist. Maybe people don't see it that way because he's a white guy...even though historically Greeks, along with Italians, Portuguese and Irish have been seen as "lesser" white people and have had their fair share of racial stereotypes too.

 

If someone has that much of a need to make fun of the man's weight which is completely off-topic to anything baseball-related, at least make reference to him chowing down on some ballpark footlongs...you know...something new and different for a change! Or if someone is going to continue to be a tool with the Greek food comments at least go full throttle on the racial stereotypes...Cito's been getting kind of hefty in his advancing years...lots of opportunities to point out his aforementioned love of fried chicken and watermelon!

[o2cui2i]

Ha well, when it gets to the point where something is enough for me, I start putting my thinking cap on. Every AA thread has at least one and usually multiple posts about his supposed eating habits and heritage. If it helps to get people to think about what they are saying and phase out the casual acceptance of these dumb troll posts then that's my positive contribution to this board I guess.

 

There's no other way to describe these posts than as racist. Maybe people don't see it that way because he's a white guy...even though historically Greeks, along with Italians, Portuguese and Irish have been seen as "lesser" white people and have had their fair share of racial stereotypes too.

 

If someone has that much of a need to make fun of the man's weight which is completely off-topic to anything baseball-related, at least make reference to him chowing down on some ballpark footlongs...you know...something new and different for a change! Or if someone is going to continue to be a tool with the Greek food comments at least go full throttle on the racial stereotypes...Cito's been getting kind of hefty in his advancing years...lots of opportunities to point out his aforementioned love of fried chicken and watermelon!

 

wasn't felafel being used not that long ago?

 

Racism Racism consists of ideologies and practices that seek to justify, or cause, the unequal distribution of privileges, rights or goods among different racial groups.

 

saying a Greek eats gyros is not different than saying that cops eat donuts. it's a joke and not in any way saying that the person is of "lesser" value because of their Food consumption.

 

I'm also not being racist towards my parents for being old when I say they have both spices when the make food, salt and pepper.

 

in the modern world the width of what is now being treated has racism is very wide. if you say anything negative about a woman, it's sexist, because you are apparently only thinking it's negative because she is a woman, when in fact it could be because she is completely incompetent.

 

Among the questions about how to define racism are the question of whether to include forms of discrimination that are unintentional, such as making assumptions about preferences or abilities of others based on racial stereotypes, whether to include symbolic or institutionalized forms of discrimination such as the circulation of ethnic stereotypes through the media, and whether to include the sociopolitical dynamics of social stratification that sometimes have a racial component.

 

In sociology and psychology, some definitions include only consciously malignant forms of discrimination.[4][5] Some definitions of racism also include discriminatory behaviors and beliefs based on cultural, national, ethnic, caste, or religious stereotypes.[2][6] One view holds that racism is best understood as 'prejudice plus power' because without the support of political or economic power, prejudice would not be able to manifest as a pervasive cultural, institutional or social phenomenon

 

in the end it's back to the simple ideal, if people have predetermined that they are going to get pissed off it's more likely going to happen. whiny people can find anything that other people say racist and offensive.

 

 

people need to take their petty difference and bury them away and not look for others to, OH MY GOD, say something offense.

 

If YOU choose to be OFFENDED then you will for sure find that you are looking for. If you look at things a little more light wholeheartedly you might find a happy life.

 

 

so AA can eat his gyros while I eat my steaks and ice cream and bacon and donuts....

[Gorlak]

wasn't felafel being used not that long ago?

 

Racism Racism consists of ideologies and practices that seek to justify, or cause, the unequal distribution of privileges, rights or goods among different racial groups.

 

saying a Greek eats gyros is not different than saying that cops eat donuts. it's a joke and not in any way saying that the person is of "lesser" value because of their Food consumption.

 

I'm also not being racist towards my parents for being old when I say they have both spices when the make food, salt and pepper.

 

in the modern world the width of what is now being treated has racism is very wide. if you say anything negative about a woman, it's sexist, because you are apparently only thinking it's negative because she is a woman, when in fact it could be because she is completely incompetent.

 

Among the questions about how to define racism are the question of whether to include forms of discrimination that are unintentional, such as making assumptions about preferences or abilities of others based on racial stereotypes, whether to include symbolic or institutionalized forms of discrimination such as the circulation of ethnic stereotypes through the media, and whether to include the sociopolitical dynamics of social stratification that sometimes have a racial component.

 

In sociology and psychology, some definitions include only consciously malignant forms of discrimination.[4][5] Some definitions of racism also include discriminatory behaviors and beliefs based on cultural, national, ethnic, caste, or religious stereotypes.[2][6] One view holds that racism is best understood as 'prejudice plus power' because without the support of political or economic power, prejudice would not be able to manifest as a pervasive cultural, institutional or social phenomenon

 

in the end it's back to the simple ideal, if people have predetermined that they are going to get pissed off it's more likely going to happen. whiny people can find anything that other people say racist and offensive.

 

 

people need to take their petty difference and bury them away and not look for others to, OH MY GOD, say something offense.

 

If YOU choose to be OFFENDED then you will for sure find that you are looking for. If you look at things a little more light wholeheartedly you might find a happy life.

 

 

so AA can eat his gyros while I eat my steaks and ice cream and bacon and donuts....

 

The "joke" just serves to give impetus to the idea his opinion should be marginalized on the bases of ethnicity. The "joke" is essentially "Who cares, he's a fat Greek". I'm not offended by it, just read it and think, "k....".

[KingKat]

Dick_Pole's main point wasn't only about the nature of the joke itself but also the fact that it's being driven to the ground. There's a difference between making the one joke that might (or even is likely to) offend. I'd argue that's there's merit in a well timed "offensive' joke but there's difference between that and running a joke to the ground. Maybe someone, at some point, made a good tzatziki joke but now it's just a lazy cheap shot. He's fat and greek. We get it. Does it matter? No, it doesn't. Find better reasons to be dismissive of AA.

[Jimcanuck]

I read today that Walker said he hopes he's good for the 2nd half, kid's in trouble, period.

 

6-8 weeks for lat strains is typical.... if that's indeed what it is

[Jimcanuck]

the jokes about AA and food have nothing to do with him being greek, but with him being fat

 

now if you called him a lazy Greek, that would be different

[Dick_Pole]

Dick_Pole's main point wasn't only about the nature of the joke itself but also the fact that it's being driven to the ground. There's a difference between making the one joke that might (or even is likely to) offend. I'd argue that's there's merit in a well timed "offensive' joke but there's difference between that and running a joke to the ground. Maybe someone, at some point, made a good tzatziki joke but now it's just a lazy cheap shot. He's fat and greek. We get it. Does it matter? No, it doesn't. Find better reasons to be dismissive of AA.

 

KingKat and Gorlak have it spot on. If anyone has been following my post history, I'd be the last guy who would be offended at some racially insensitive and/or politically incorrect joke. But this joke has been driven into the ground and is just getting lame. If AA was a black guy, or Chinese, or Latino and traditionally stereotypical foods of those cultures came up ad nauseam, someone would be called out as a racist eventually.

[Dick_Pole]

the jokes about AA and food have nothing to do with him being greek, but with him being fat

 

now if you called him a lazy Greek, that would be different

 

Then make a hot dog joke for a change...or pizza or even poutine based on where he was born. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that he likes Greek food any more than any other food outside of his heritage. f***, I like Greek food as well and I'm not Greek. I prefer Greek food than the food of my various backgrounds, actually.

[Dick_Pole]

wasn't felafel being used not that long ago?

 

Racism Racism consists of ideologies and practices that seek to justify, or cause, the unequal distribution of privileges, rights or goods among different racial groups.

 

saying a Greek eats gyros is not different than saying that cops eat donuts. it's a joke and not in any way saying that the person is of "lesser" value because of their Food consumption.

 

I'm also not being racist towards my parents for being old when I say they have both spices when the make food, salt and pepper.

 

in the modern world the width of what is now being treated has racism is very wide. if you say anything negative about a woman, it's sexist, because you are apparently only thinking it's negative because she is a woman, when in fact it could be because she is completely incompetent.

 

Among the questions about how to define racism are the question of whether to include forms of discrimination that are unintentional, such as making assumptions about preferences or abilities of others based on racial stereotypes, whether to include symbolic or institutionalized forms of discrimination such as the circulation of ethnic stereotypes through the media, and whether to include the sociopolitical dynamics of social stratification that sometimes have a racial component.

 

In sociology and psychology, some definitions include only consciously malignant forms of discrimination.[4][5] Some definitions of racism also include discriminatory behaviors and beliefs based on cultural, national, ethnic, caste, or religious stereotypes.[2][6] One view holds that racism is best understood as 'prejudice plus power' because without the support of political or economic power, prejudice would not be able to manifest as a pervasive cultural, institutional or social phenomenon

 

in the end it's back to the simple ideal, if people have predetermined that they are going to get pissed off it's more likely going to happen. whiny people can find anything that other people say racist and offensive.

 

 

people need to take their petty difference and bury them away and not look for others to, OH MY GOD, say something offense.

 

If YOU choose to be OFFENDED then you will for sure find that you are looking for. If you look at things a little more light wholeheartedly you might find a happy life.

 

 

so AA can eat his gyros while I eat my steaks and ice cream and bacon and donuts....

 

Long post, but it doesn't really say anything. I have a feeling you're just overly sensitive right now from a hangover over the debacle from last night.

 

EDIT: oh, and the falafel joke probably had more to do with ignorance on which food comes from where, than willful commentary on AA's love for food of different cultures. Though I didn't see it myself so it's just a guess.

[Deadpool]

Then make a hot dog joke for a change...or pizza or even poutine based on where he was born. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that he likes Greek food any more than any other food outside of his heritage. f***, I like Greek food as well and I'm not Greek. I prefer Greek food than the food of my various backgrounds, actually.

 

I'm not huge on Greek food overall (lamb and olives are both on my "not a fan of this foodstuff" list), but my heritage is mostly UK, so it's not a stretch to say that I prefer most foods over traditional British fare (bangers and mash notwithstanding.)

[BigCecil]

Long post, but it doesn't really say anything. I have a feeling you're just overly sensitive right now from a hangover over the debacle from last night.

 

EDIT: oh, and the falafel joke probably had more to do with ignorance on which food comes from where, than willful commentary on AA's love for food of different cultures. Though I didn't see it myself so it's just a guess.

 

I think it was LTR on AA and he knew falafel isn't greek - just said it sounds better than mousaka and spanakopita.

 

I only post on this Board during the season but I find it out of hand sometimes. We have had debates about the appropriateness of jokes about the sexual abuse RA experienced and then wrote about. I know Sheldon Kennedy pretty well who does so much to help kids who have been abused. He hears horror stories. I am one who thinks that even if people expose or write about it (and maybe make something off of it...or not), its not really something I find humorous at all ever. I have a 7 year old boy and that makes me over sensitive perhaps. Others have different perspectives and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

Now this discussion about racism. Its interesting to me how a baseball based board can light up on these topics. A lot of the commentary is very thoughtful. I've made the odd off color joke in jest I'm not proud of, but I really think this Board should err on the side of caution when it comes to racist and inappropriate commentary on peoples weight (except Navarro perhaps:) ). It wont ever encourage people to participate and it hurts cred. Not to be the politically correct police but its just a slippery slope.

 

BTW Ill take either a starter OR reliever AA!