Norris or Hoffman

[jays_fever]

He got knocked around in A-Ball. Its pretty insane how 6 starts into his profesional career and people are down on him. If your disapointed fine but its going to take him months maybe the rest of the season to find the feel and command again. I'm not worried about the lack of strikeouts at this point.

 

It's more insane that people are really convinced he's going to be a front line starter

[DuckDuckGose]

It's more insane that people are really convinced he's going to be a front line starter

 

Doesn't the same go for Norris?

[jays_fever]

Doesn't the same go for Norris?

 

Absolutely, though at least Norris showed he could dominate AA/AAA ball at a young age.

 

Fans just watch these young kids throw nasty stuff and suddenly forget how hard it is to dominate at the pro level.

[DuckDuckGose]

Norris never dominated AA and he has only pitched well in AAA over short stints. Good chance he's a reliever long term if he can't fix his control issues. Hoffman at the very least is a backend starter.

[GD]

Norris never dominated AA and he has only pitched well in AAA over short stints. Good chance he's a reliever long term if he can't fix his control issues. Hoffman at the very least is a backend starter.

 

He had a 2.78 SIERA in AA. What the hell is your definition of dominating, if not that?

[jays_fever]

Striking 13+ batters out per 9 innings over two levels is dominating.

 

Hoffman hasnt shown that he can even strike out A ball players yet, but because he's new he has this shiny halo effect

[DuckDuckGose]

4.03 FIP and 4.3 BB/9

[Jimcanuck]

went with Hoffman.... from what I have seen of Norris so far, hard to see him being more than a mid rotation guy

[Boxcar]

Dipchitz is v dumn

[LTR]

People are getting clouded by the fact that Norris is a guy you want to cheer for, that doesn't neccessarily mean he will translate to the bigs. He did not impress in either of his short stints in the majors (not really any stats will disagree with that)... both times he made excuses... we'll have to wait and see. He's still showing that he has no control in AAA.

[DuckDuckGose]

Dipchitz is v dumn

 

No idea what this means

[GD]

People are getting clouded by the fact that Norris is a guy you want to cheer for, that doesn't neccessarily mean he will translate to the bigs. He did not impress in either of his short stints in the majors (not really any stats will disagree with that)... both times he made excuses... we'll have to wait and see. He's still showing that he has no control in AAA.

 

5.1 IP last year out of the bullpen means nothing.

 

This year, he was s***. I don't see what relevance last year holds.

[KingKat]

He's still showing that he has no control in AAA.

 

What do you mean "still showing". His BB/9 in AAA is the highest he's ever shown with the exception of a 7 inning sample in A- back in 2012.

[DuckDuckGose]

5.1 IP last year out of the bullpen means nothing.

 

This year, he was s***. I don't see what relevance last year holds.

 

None of the samples above A ball are particularly large. Think it's like 120IP total

[GD]

none of the samples above a ball are particularly large. Think it's like 120ip total

 

120 ip > 5.1 ip

[IronLadle]

you mean now? short term? long term?

 

just for this year, no sense in overpaying for a closer if Norris can fill in for a year

[DuckDuckGose]

120 ip > 5.1 ip

 

Sure is.

[keggy]

Neither Hoffman or Norris should be moved unless it's for a true ace or a impact position player. Even a Chapman-level closer isn't worth it.

 

If you have to choose one, you stick with the one closer to the majors. Given that Hoffman already has 1 TJS under his belt and Norris 0, it's a no brainer.

[Jimcanuck]

Does that factor in that he may not be a finished product?

 

based simply on stuff.... there's nothing dominating about it.... unless he can compensate with above average command and control he's no more than a mid rotation guy... so far the command and control is below average

[jays_fever]

based simply on stuff.... there's nothing dominating about it.... unless he can compensate with above average command and control he's no more than a mid rotation guy... so far the command and control is below average

 

But Hoffman who can't strike out A ball hitters is better just because he's new? Norris has shown he can miss tons of bats and the walk rate wasnt crazy high last year across 3 levels. He flew thew the system and because he's struggled this year he's suddenly limited to a mid rotation type ceiling while Hoffman is the next Halladay

[Jimcanuck]

But Hoffman who can't strike out A ball hitters is better just because he's new? Norris has shown he can miss tons of bats and the walk rate wasnt crazy high last year across 3 levels. He flew thew the system and because he's struggled this year he's suddenly limited to a mid rotation type ceiling while Hoffman is the next Halladay

 

didnt say anything about hoffman.... it's too early to know, he could be great, he could bust, or somewhere in between

 

norris also has a much higher trade value

 

all things considered i'd move norris before hoff

[baubau]

But Hoffman who can't strike out A ball hitters is better just because he's new? Norris has shown he can miss tons of bats and the walk rate wasnt crazy high last year across 3 levels. He flew thew the system and because he's struggled this year he's suddenly limited to a mid rotation type ceiling while Hoffman is the next Halladay

 

Hoffman is the next Verlander. Sanchez is the next Halladay.

Get your s*** together jays_feaver.

 

/ sarcasm

[Captain Adama]

I look at the results of the poll and there's a very clear separation in the intelligence of posters whom vote for Norris and those whom vote Hoffman.

[Atothe]

Norris doesn't have dominating stuff? Jimcanuck went full derp in this thread. Go on vacation you're stressed out

[Jimcanuck]

Norris doesn't have dominating stuff? Jimcanuck went full derp in this thread. Go on vacation you're stressed out

 

thats not what i said

 

if all you are going to do is insult other posters, its you that needs a time out

[Atothe]

thats not what i said

 

if all you are going to do is insult other posters, its you that needs a time out

 

Okay other then velocity what pitches of Hoffman right now grade better then Norris'?

[Hipfan]

Norris, if only because of the TJS for Hoffman. While pitchers are more injury prone, and Norris could break down at any moment, I still think he's a safer bet health wise; at least he hasn't need surgery yet...

[Atothe]

I don't know how this is even a discussion. Norris is better right now and will be for the foreseeable future no argument

[RealAccountant]

Again I would look to taking Garza out of Milwaukee and taking his contract

[Jimcanuck]

Okay other then velocity what pitches of Hoffman right now grade better then Norris'?

 

This isn't a comparison of skill/talent between the two. Its a question who do you keep? There are several considerations to answer the question, not just who is better at this point in time. Norris is clearly the better and more polished at this point, and is MLB ready or close to it. He has much more value in trade. Norris alone may bring the SP the Jays need to be true contenders for a WS. If Hoffman is the one traded, supplementary pieces will be needed.

 

Norris is likely to level off as a mid rotation starter, IMO. Hoffman, who knows, too early after TJS to say.

 

It's just my opinion, but i'd move the guy with more trade value and more certainty on potential, and keep the lower tier guy with less trade value and more uncertainty in terms of ceiling/floor.

 

Your opinion may be the reverse and has just as much merit, no reason to insult those opinions you disagree with.