General Jays Discussion 2015

[harvey16]

Since I started this thread might as well give my opinion!

 

Pure power the edge would have to go to the current squad. Top 4 guys have legit 30+ HR power while Carter would be the only true power hitter on the 1993 club.

 

Speed would have to go to the 1993 club. You've got Henderson, Alomar, Fernandez who are all legit speed threats. Revere and to a certain extent Travis are the only real threats on the current club.

 

Contact would have to go to the 1993 club. You've got Alomar, Olerud, Fernandez and Molitor who are all career .290+ hitters.

 

Bench

 

Hands down the current squad has a better bench.

 

Overall

 

If I had to choose I still think the 1993 club is better all around from top to bottom. 1 through 7 on that team is just unreal! Borders is really the only weak link on the team. Overall that team just provides more consistency throughout the order.

 

My 2 cents anyway

Edited August 11, 2015 by harvey16
errors

[JFD]

Henderson > Revere

White > Pillar

Alomar > Travis/Goins

Molitor > EE

Olerud > Smoak

Bautista > Carter

Tulo > Fernandez

Donaldson > Sprague

Martin > Borders

 

15 bench > 93 bench

 

93 wins but not by a ton. definitely more depth on the 93 lineup.

[Baseball Player]

I have no idea what you are saying.

 

Not too smart are ya? I meant that the teams changed over the season IE added 1993 henderson, 2015 tulo, revere, etc. So the the two teams were not the same team for a whole season. If we're debating what lineup is the best in bluejays history you would have to say something like the "lineup we had circa 1993 october".

 

So basically to find the best offense in Jays history you would have to find out how many runs each of the different lineups from those two seasons and possible other seasons produced the most runs per game.

 

EDIT: I realize that the thread title is 1993 vs 2015 offense but I think it would be more interesting to find out the most potent Jays lineup in history (obviously with a half decent sample size).

Edited August 11, 2015 by Baseball Player

[Candy Maldonado]

Not too smart are ya? I meant that the teams changed over the season IE added 1993 henderson, 2015 tulo, revere, etc. So the the two teams were not the same team for a whole season. If we're debating what lineup is the best in bluejays history you would have to say something like the "lineup we had circa 1993 october".

 

So basically to find the best offense in Jays history you would have to find out how many runs each of the different lineups from those two seasons and possible other seasons produced the most runs per game.

 

EDIT: I realize that the thread title is 1993 vs 2015 offense but I think it would be more interesting to find out the most potent Jays lineup in history (obviously with a half decent sample size).

 

I seriously can't tell if these new posters are trolls or not.

[Baseball Player]

I seriously can't tell if these new posters are trolls or not.

 

Not only do you have poor reading comprehension, you also don't know what a troll is.

 

Look buddy I get it, I'm new and you have 3800 posts, you're a big man on campus around here (or at least think you are). Hey, feel free to haze me, but at least try to make a lick of sense when you do. Start by looking up the definition of troll.

[Spanky99]

Hope this Oakland series isn't a letdown. We're facing good pitching and this is a series in past yrs where we would lay an egg. I'd be content with 2/3. Can't take them lightly.

 

Says the same thing every series, every game.

[Spanky99]

Don't write off anybody. It's August 10.

 

You win!!!

[RealAccountant]

I like that Colabello has the distinguished honor of being the team's urinary tract infection.

 

He keeps getting hits

[RealAccountant]

Dean Blundel or whatever his name is

 

Stop discussing Jays please

[nextyear]

Not only do you have poor reading comprehension, you also don't know what a troll is.

 

Look buddy I get it, I'm new and you have 3800 posts, you're a big man on campus around here (or at least think you are). Hey, feel free to haze me, but at least try to make a lick of sense when you do. Start by looking up the definition of troll.

 

 

Well put Baseball Player. You have to be thick-skinned to post on this forum; you seem like you will be able to handle the constant insults.

[Atothe]

I see you King

[RealAccountant]

Well put Baseball Player. You have to be thick-skinned to post on this forum; you seem like you will be able to handle the constant insults.

 

Lol don't forget being outcasted for not believing in WAR

[nextyear]

Lol don't forget being outcasted for not believing in WAR

 

I am still here and still don't believe in the way WAR it is calculated.

 

In 30 years time, the youngsters here who believe in the way that WAR is currently calculated will probably be accused of being from the dark ages. Maybe in 30 years a factorial analysis of actual win data for each player will be used instead of some arbitrary algebraic mishmash of individual hitting and defensive stats that doesn't work.

[Jonzo]

Honestly this thread is a cluster f***. Why does everyone get butt hurt when new threads are created?

 

I could understand spam, but legitimate threads about the Toronto Blue Jays should not be merged into this stupid thread.

 

And yes, I am butt hurt.

[Boxcar]

Says the same thing every series, every game.

 

Lol

[Boxcar]

I am still here and still don't believe in the way WAR it is calculated.

 

In 30 years time, the youngsters here who believe in the way that WAR is currently calculated will probably be accused of being from the dark ages. Maybe in 30 years a factorial analysis of actual win data for each player will be used instead of some arbitrary algebraic mishmash of individual hitting and defensive stats that doesn't work.

 

Funny how you claim to "not believe" in WAR (like it's Santa Claus) or think it doesn't work but you never provide a shred of evidence to support your point.

[Brownie19]

I am still here and still don't believe in the way WAR it is calculated.

 

In 30 years time, the youngsters here who believe in the way that WAR is currently calculated will probably be accused of being from the dark ages. Maybe in 30 years a factorial analysis of actual win data for each player will be used instead of some arbitrary algebraic mishmash of individual hitting and defensive stats that doesn't work.

 

Or some of us will adapt to the advancements in technology and stay up to speed with the improved ways of judging a players value. I know it's a foreign concept - but it can happen.

[BigCecil]

I am still here and still don't believe in the way WAR it is calculated.

 

In 30 years time, the youngsters here who believe in the way that WAR is currently calculated will probably be accused of being from the dark ages. Maybe in 30 years a factorial analysis of actual win data for each player will be used instead of some arbitrary algebraic mishmash of individual hitting and defensive stats that doesn't work.

 

"WAR...what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!" - Greg Zaun

 

I'm old school but have learned a lot from the sabres on this Board (even though some are acerbic, arrogant, dismissive dicks at times).

 

Stats like runs, avg, RBIs, ERA and W-L tell us little about meaningful evaluation of results. Not taking into account D is a horrendous oversight in accessing value.

Zaun is wrong

[Spanky99]

Or some of us will adapt to the advancements in technology and stay up to speed with the improved ways of judging a players value. I know it's a foreign concept - but it can happen.

 

Exactly I started watching 35 years ago and learned to adapt, can't see why he can't, there's a preface of these stats on this site and blog, it's not that flipping hard.

[nextyear]

Funny how you claim to "not believe" in WAR (like it's Santa Claus) or think it doesn't work but you never provide a shred of evidence to support your point.

 

I did. The WAR for Devon Travis which shows he is now plus 2.4 but the team is actually minus 10 when he plays (look it up if you don't believe it). This was dismissed as luck or random chance, or that some things can't be explained. This isn't how statistics work, there is always an explanation, which could be experimental error or that the equation is not valid. WAR is inconsistent and in this case Zaun is right. Proclaiming that I am kooky is also not a valid argument for WAR

 

I have taken 6 years of engineering at two well known Canadian universities. An equation that gives such erroneous results would not be used by any engineer.

 

There are better statistical methods for determining WAR.

[Inklink]

I absolutely cannot focus on work. Can it be game time already please?

[HERPDERP]

I absolutely cannot focus on work. Can it be game time already please?

 

you will regret it when Hutchison serves up 8 ER in the 1st

[Brownie19]

I did. The WAR for Devon Travis which shows he is now plus 2.4 but the team is actually minus 10 when he plays (look it up if you don't believe it). This was dismissed as luck or random chance, or that some things can't be explained. This isn't how statistics work, there is always an explanation, which could be experimental error or that the equation is not valid. WAR is inconsistent and in this case Zaun is right. Proclaiming that I am kooky is also not a valid argument for WAR

 

I have taken 6 years of engineering at two well known Canadian universities. An equation that gives such erroneous results would not be used by any engineer.

 

There are better statistic methods for determining WAR.

 

Ever consider the play of the other 24 members of the team may contribute to the losses when Travis has been in the lineup?

 

I'm an engineer too. Yur dum.

[Atothe]

No one said learn it all in one fell swoop, if it takes you years its better then not trying

[Spanky99]

I did. The WAR for Devon Travis which shows he is now plus 2.4 but the team is actually minus 10 when he plays (look it up if you don't believe it). This was dismissed as luck or random chance, or that some things can't be explained. This isn't how statistics work, there is always an explanation, which could be experimental error or that the equation is not valid. WAR is inconsistent and in this case Zaun is right. Proclaiming that I am kooky is also not a valid argument for WAR

 

I have taken 6 years of engineering at two well known Canadian universities. An equation that gives such erroneous results would not be used by any engineer.

 

There are better statistical methods for determining WAR.

 

"COOLER HEADS PREVAIL"

 

 

cf

[Daniel Labude]

Honestly this thread is a cluster f***. Why does everyone get butt hurt when new threads are created?

 

I could understand spam, but legitimate threads about the Toronto Blue Jays should not be merged into this stupid thread.

 

And yes, I am butt hurt.

 

Because a few who think they run the board can't see the majority of new threads...

[BigCecil]

I did. The WAR for Devon Travis which shows he is now plus 2.4 but the team is actually minus 10 when he plays (look it up if you don't believe it). This was dismissed as luck or random chance, or that some things can't be explained. This isn't how statistics work, there is always an explanation, which could be experimental error or that the equation is not valid. WAR is inconsistent and in this case Zaun is right. Proclaiming that I am kooky is also not a valid argument for WAR

 

I have taken 6 years of engineering at two well known Canadian universities. An equation that gives such erroneous results would not be used by any engineer.

 

There are better statistical methods for determining WAR.

 

Yawn. Team Ws are a collective result. MVP caliber players have been on s*** W-L teams. Travis's play and the correlation to Ws doesn't mean much if anything in this game.

 

I pointed out Zaun comments because in this case he is wrong.

[Spanky99]

I did. The WAR for Devon Travis which shows he is now plus 2.4 but the team is actually minus 10 when he plays (look it up if you don't believe it). This was dismissed as luck or random chance, or that some things can't be explained. This isn't how statistics work, there is always an explanation, which could be experimental error or that the equation is not valid. WAR is inconsistent and in this case Zaun is right. Proclaiming that I am kooky is also not a valid argument for WAR

 

I have taken 6 years of engineering at two well known Canadian universities. An equation that gives such erroneous results would not be used by any engineer.

 

There are better statistical methods for determining WAR.

 

You're so far off base mate, you're out...here, use this as a tool, please.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/getting-started/

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/war/

[nextyear]

Ever consider the play of the other 24 members of the team may contribute to the losses when Travis has been in the lineup?

 

I'm an engineer too. Yur dum.

 

 

I doubt it. If you are an engineer then you aren't a very ethical one, nor well informed. Also, an engineer wouldn't purposely use incorrect grammar such as "Yur dum".

 

There are methods such as factorial statistical analysis that can analyze such data and take into account the other 24 members of the team. In the simplest case, it is just a matter of doing a comparison with all else equal. If you are an engineer then why don't you understand something so basic as this?

[Brownie19]

Also, an engineer wouldn't purposely use incorrect grammar such as "Yur dum".

 

 

Guess you're one of those engineers who doesn't get sarcasm either. Thanks for helping to create the stereotype that we're all dweebs...