A Look Back at the Happ (Houston) trade.

[sdyment]

Didn't see this posted.

 

http://capitaljays.com/2015/03/10/capital-retrospection-the-j-a-happ-trade-july-2012/

[TheHurl]

respected journalist Richard Griffin.

 

...and stopped reading

[Governator]

...and stopped reading

 

It was actually a good read though he could have added some thoughts on then flipping Happ for Saunders to bring things fully up to date.

[TheHurl]

It was actually a good read though he could have added some thoughts on then flipping Happ for Saunders to bring things fully up to date.

 

I hate judging a trade on how the prospects worked out. It still doesn't deal with the value the prospects had at the time in other potential deals (in this case, on their own not many of these players had much value), or the max value they had (I think Asher is the only guy who's value on his own may have gone up)

[bendera3]

I hate judging a trade on how the prospects worked out. It still doesn't deal with the value the prospects had at the time in other potential deals (in this case, on their own not many of these players had much value), or the max value they had (I think Asher is the only guy who's value on his own may have gone up)

 

I understand where you're coming from in saying that. Value wise we probably could have gotten a better player in return, but I think Happ turned out well. All those 1st round picks (other than Asher) haven't really amounted to much. All things considered I think we made out quite well in this trade.

[Governator]

I hate judging a trade on how the prospects worked out. It still doesn't deal with the value the prospects had at the time in other potential deals (in this case, on their own not many of these players had much value), or the max value they had (I think Asher is the only guy who's value on his own may have gone up)

 

I do agree judging a trade after you find out how the prospects developed isn't the right way to judge it. However, most of those players in that specific deal were at their max value at that time, AA traded them at the right time. He also traded them right near the deadline when the Jays need was pitching. You could look at other potential deals but he made the right move to acquire Happ if that was the best pitcher they could have gotten for those prospects at the time (along with Lyon/Carpenter). Recognizing that they weren't going to impact the Jays, likely ever except the off chance with Wojo.

[Angrioter]

A > B because A had a better performance

 

Evaluate results is so easy!!

[TheHurl]

I understand where you're coming from in saying that. Value wise we probably could have gotten a better player in return, but I think Happ turned out well. All those 1st round picks (other than Asher) haven't really amounted to much. All things considered I think we made out quite well in this trade.

 

Yeah in the Happ deal I was much more on the side of "most boring deal ever". Liked Perez but understood his value, or lack thereof. I hear it all the time in Florida trade though (I only cared about ______ in that deal). All of those players had and still have value.

[KingKat]

Yeah in the Happ deal I was much more on the side of "most boring deal ever". Liked Perez but understood his value, or lack thereof. I hear it all the time in Florida trade though (I only cared about ______ in that deal). All of those players had and still have value.

 

Jonah Keri was of the opinion that such a complicated trade probably consumed a fair amount of time that could have been spent working on a more meaningful deal.

[TheHurl]

Jonah Keri was of the opinion that such a complicated trade probably consumed a fair amount of time that could have been spent working on a more meaningful deal.

 

or exercising.

[jays76]

Good article, I wonder if Griffin has read it..

[glory]

Houston had to take back two completely deadweight salaries (Blowdero and Francisco) so that probably made the prospect capital a bit higher.

[bendera3]

Houston had to take back two completely deadweight salaries (Blowdero and Francisco) so that probably made the prospect capital a bit higher.

 

If I remember correctly, Coco was the vain of our existence before this trade too. Didn't he pitch incredibly poorly leading up to it?

[jays76]

CoCo was a salary dump for sure. The bane of our existence was the rash of injuries and under achievements of key players like Romero and Melky.

 

Melky came the year after.

[Angrioter]

Jeff Moore ‏

Wuilmer Becerra just absolutely crushed a fastball in an intrasquad game. You know him as the other guy in the RA Dickey trade. #Mets

[RIPEXPOS]

I hate judging a trade on how the prospects worked out. It still doesn't deal with the value the prospects had at the time in other potential deals (in this case, on their own not many of these players had much value), or the max value they had (I think Asher is the only guy who's value on his own may have gone up)

 

The problem with this thinking, is that you are talking about "perceived value", the value of these prospects as perceived by outsiders. I think the ONLY way to look at a trade, is how it ultimately worked out. Otherwise you start delving into the world of hypotheticals.

[KingKat]

Houston had to take back two completely deadweight salaries (Blowdero and Francisco) so that probably made the prospect capital a bit higher.

 

Lyons and Carpenter offset some of that deadweight IIRC.

[sdyment]

Just saw a tweet that Michael Taylor retired. Just another prospect sold high for AA it would seem. Give him credit - aside from Gomes, traded prospects to this point have not been overly successful with their new organizations. We'll see this year with Synd, D'arnaud, handsome Jake, etc...

[GNick49]

Didn't see this posted.

 

http://capitaljays.com/2015/03/10/capital-retrospection-the-j-a-happ-trade-july-2012/

That was a good trade. Wish we had kept Lyons as he was pretty good here. Carpenter also, I remember him pitching well in Atlant.

[Key22]

When AA took over as GM didn't he build the team's scouting staff to be the biggest staff in all of baseball? Perhaps AA and his staff evaluate prospects quite differently than the people at baseball America. The dodgers commented that Tampa Bay always asked for the "right prospects" not the big name prospects which is why they hired Tampa's GM.

 

No team is ever going to get it right all the time. With the Dickey trade AA said D'arnaud was offered early on but as time went by he caved on Syndergaard. Listening to the interview back then it was Syndergaard he seemed to not want to trade so it will be interesting to judge how much value the Jays get from Dickey versus the two players the Mets got.

 

But I think the issue with Dickey was Cy Young winner, 3 years in a row with the most quality starts in the majors, and he was willing to sign a multi-year deal at well under market value. The Jays seeming to have a top 5 offense he knew that quality starts would matter most because if he just goes 6-7 innings 3 runs then with the Jays offense they would likely win most of his starts.

 

If they went after another ace (and no doubt AA phoned on every ace in the game) they either wanted two more players on top of Syndergaard and D'Arnaud AND/OR the player's salary would likely be double (Hamels etc).