Osuna and Castro

[TheHurl]

Found some pitchers that skipped AA and AAA as 20 year old pitchers. Rich Gossage (but he through 180 innings in A ball as a 19 year old first). A recent bust out Marcos Carvajal who pretty much did it in 2005 (he had 3 AA innings first), Chad Gaudin had just 19 AA innings. Julian Taveras has 15 AA IP's. It's just not easy to find.

[TheHurl]

Forgot about Jim Abbott, Darren Dreifort, and Mike Leake who are somewhat recent examples of player who went directly to the majors from College.

[jaysfan2014]

Found some pitchers that skipped AA and AAA as 20 year old pitchers. Rich Gossage (but he through 180 innings in A ball as a 19 year old first). A recent bust out Marcos Carvajal who pretty much did it in 2005 (he had 3 AA innings first), Chad Gaudin had just 19 AA innings. Julian Taveras has 15 AA IP's. It's just not easy to find.

 

And Rich(Goose) Gossage is a Hall Of Famer. Marcos Carvajal was garbage, we know about Gaudin, and Julian Tavarez had a 16 year career(with a World Series ring in Boston from 2007). It really depends on talent. And let's not forget Mike Leake, who skipped the minors (outside of a brief 7.1 IP in AAA in his 2nd season.)

[Gorlak]

I feel like scouts should be able to determine if he's ready, Being young and inexperienced makes it incredibly unlikely to succeed in the majors, but it's not unheard of and the bar is lowered by just being a reliever. A 97 mph fastball and a plus offspeed pitch will get it done in the bullpen. Whether this is the best use of his potential or value is more complicated.

[KingKat]

Forgot about Jim Abbott, Darren Dreifort, and Mike Leake who are somewhat recent examples of player who went directly to the majors from College.

 

Wouldn't that make them all at least a year older?

[TheHurl]

Wouldn't that make them all at least a year older?

 

Yep none of them made my initial sort trying to figure out who debuted at 20 with experience below AA. The debut at 20 pool is pretty small with just 141 pitchers in my lifetime (45 years) that made their debut at 20. Of those 141 only 32 had an fWAR of 1 or higher, and 89 were above replacement level. As BTS said, his best case scenario is low impact and it starts his clock and burns an option if you send him down. The positives just don't outweigh the negatives here.

[ElNik2013]

They won't do this out of the gate, but if they both continue to develop, they could be used the way Sanchez was in 2014 to limit innings.

[Maahfaace]

The media is pushing this hard, lets talk about how this will end

 

http://www.tsn.ca/two-kids-have-legitimate-shot-at-bullpen-1.225630

 

Prospect hyping at its finest, discussed internally, then spewed out to media to grow like a virus and culminate in inflated articles like this one. There is zero chance Castro or Osuna make the team out of spring, with the only way either of these kids see the majors this year, is by pulling a 2014 Daniel Norris and getting a late season call-up.

[Angrioter]

Jays FO

"Nolin kid is ready to the big show. He have good stuff, secondary and makeup. Call up him"

 

 

After 1.1 IP

"Maybe he's not ready "

[glory]

Are you sure they have more than enough bullpen options? I keep reading all off season how there's not enough depth and we need more bullpen arms.

 

Assuming that Cecil/Loup/Lopez/Delabar/Redmond/Estrada are safe bets, then any one of Guilmet, West, Jenkins, Infante, Shultz, Tepera, Hendriks, Francis, Rasmussen, etc, would be better than rushing Castro.

[HERPDERP]

Osuna interview

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/08/toronto-blue-jays-prospects-roberto-osuna-miguel-castro-represent-next-wave-of-young-pitchers/

[saskjayfan]

Found some pitchers that skipped AA and AAA as 20 year old pitchers. Rich Gossage (but he through 180 innings in A ball as a 19 year old first). A recent bust out Marcos Carvajal who pretty much did it in 2005 (he had 3 AA innings first), Chad Gaudin had just 19 AA innings. Julian Taveras has 15 AA IP's. It's just not easy to find.

 

Jose Fernandez skipped AA and AAA. When you're ready, you're ready. He's having tommy john right now, but Castro would be pitching out of the pen and not logging the innings Fernandez does. If the kid is demonstrating good command of his pitches, why wouldn't he make the team?

[Angrioter]

[TheHurl]

Jose Fernandez skipped AA and AAA. When you're ready, you're ready. He's having tommy john right now, but Castro would be pitching out of the pen and not logging the innings Fernandez does. If the kid is demonstrating good command of his pitches, why wouldn't he make the team?

 

And the 172 innings that Fernandez pitched would have pushed a close team (like many expect the Jays to be) over the top. The 30 innings that Castro will pitch does what in comparison to the 30 innings some other pitcher will give us? I won't even comment on the injury aspect of your commentary as that would have to deal with the stupidity that somehow pitching in the majors effects your arm differently than pitching in the minors.

[saskjayfan]

And the 172 innings that Fernandez pitched would have pushed a close team (like many expect the Jays to be) over the top. The 30 innings that Castro will pitch does what in comparison to the 30 innings some other pitcher will give us? I won't even comment on the injury aspect of your commentary as that would have to deal with the stupidity that somehow pitching in the majors effects your arm differently than pitching in the minors.

 

Castro is a fastball pitcher. He's less likely to need to spin the ball than other pitchers. You show me all the thousands of biomechanical research studies you've done and maybe i'll lend some credence to your opinion on the differing effects of pitching in the majors vs the minors. As it is pitchers are going down left right and centre and there's a multitude of opinions from actual medical professionals as to why this is happening. If Castro makes the team he's going to pitch a lot more than 30 innings. I don't know if he's ready or not. If he is the Jays will put him on the team. They are monitoring his progress a lot more closely than you or I and are more qualified to make that decision.

[TheHurl]

Castro is a fastball pitcher. He's less likely to need to spin the ball than other pitchers. You show me all the thousands of biomechanical research studies you've done and maybe i'll lend some credence to your opinion on the differing effects of pitching in the majors vs the minors. As it is pitchers are going down left right and centre and there's a multitude of opinions from actual medical professionals as to why this is happening. If Castro makes the team he's going to pitch a lot more than 30 innings. I don't know if he's ready or not. If he is the Jays will put him on the team. They are monitoring his progress a lot more closely than you or I and are more qualified to make that decision.

 

I have zero clue what you are talking about at this point. My point was that Jose Fernandez if he continued pitching in the minors would have had the same likelihood of injury. As for pitch type to injury...nope I'm completely unpublished for some reason. But I have read a little (okay I listen on tape). This is one that I really like.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21335342

 

Here is the highlight for me.

 

Ok, I know that was a bit wordy but I think it’s important to understand going forward. Hopefully everyone is still awake. As for the relationship between certain pitch types and increased stress on the elbow, it has traditionally been believed that the curveball is a more harmful pitch than the fastball or change-up. This had led to recommendations by the American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine that youth pitchers refrain from beginning to throw curveballs until the age of fourteen (http://www.sportsmed.org/uploadedFiles/Content/Patient/Sports_Tips/ST%20Baseball%2009.pdf).

 

However, in a biomechanical study using 3-dimensional analysis, Dun et al. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18055920) compared the elbow varus torque produced by the fastball, curveball, and change-up in a group of youth (11-14 year old) pitchers. They found that the fastball produced significantly more varus torque than the curveball and that the change-up produced significantly less varus torque than the other two pitches. Additionally, Nissen et al.