Second Base Options

[Brownie19]

JUST SAY NO TO GOINS...Travis is better now. If Goins was the 25th man or in Buffalo as depth, that's cool.

 

Is Goins good enough defensively to be our backup SS?

[Spanky__99]

Is Goins good enough defensively to be our backup SS?

 

Yes.

[Spanky__99]

5 million active accounts will do that

 

How many do you have?

[Deadpool]

Is Goins good enough defensively to be our backup SS?

 

He's amazing defensively, but his bat drags his value down SO MUCH that it's very, very difficult to justify giving him a roster spot.

[reedjohnsonfan]

He's amazing defensively, but his bat drags his value down SO MUCH that it's very, very difficult to justify giving him a roster spot.

 

He had a good series in Boston last year. Other than that he was an automatic out, seriously John McDonald looked a lot more competent with the bat than Goins. I also do not think that type of player deserves a roster spot... let alone a starting position that they ACTUALLY gave him last year.

[LongTimeReader]

How many do you have?

 

1... but I will create a new one come April, this username sucks as my one and only ally here pointed out

Edited January 16, 2015 by LongTimeReader

[Spanky__99]

f***eyes!

[LongTimeReader]

You should take suggestions for what your new handle will be.

 

No good can come from that I think... :eek:

[SAAviour]

Out of izturis, Travis, goins, and tolesson....something inside me believes tolleson is going to win the job and be a very pleasant surprise this year. And yes I dont even know or care how to spell his name.

[TheHurl]

You should take suggestions for what your new handle will be.

 

Back to The John

[bronson44]

Out of izturis, Travis, goins, and tolesson....something inside me believes tolleson is going to win the job and be a very pleasant surprise this year. And yes I dont even know or care how to spell his name.

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/01/15/toronto-blue-jays-steve-tolleson-sees-future-come-into-focus/

[jays4life19]

Back to The John

 

lol amazing.

[glory]

I like having Travis in AAA as depth, so I'd be OK with Izturis/Tolleson for the short-term. Or Kawasaki/Tolleson and DFA Izturis if Macier proves to be FUBAR in Spring Training.

[KingKat]

Tolleson, primarily a late-inning defensive replacement last year, endured vision problems from June onward. He briefly tried glasses and contact lenses, but neither fixed the regression from corrective surgery he had undergone eight years earlier.His vision was 20/30.

“To most people 20/30 is probably not that big a deal, but when you’re trying to hit a moving object, it is a very big deal,” he said Thursday.

Tolleson and pitcher Chad Jenkins were part of a Jays’ delegation featured at the Buffalo Bisons’ annual Hot Stove Luncheon. Both Tolleson and Jenkins spent part of 2014 with the club’s Triple-A team in Buffalo.

Today, following off-season eye surgery, Tolleson’s vision is 20/15, an improvement over the normal 20/20.

 

Well s***... I was wondering why anyone should expect more out of Tolleson than what we saw last year and that's a pretty good reason and even without improvement, he's the best option against lefties of any 2B the Jays have so he deserves more consideration than we've given him to date.

[jays76]

As disgusting as Goins is with the bat I'd still give him one last chance since defensively he offsets Reyes a little and probably helps him with his confidence (along with the pitchers out there). Having two defensively inept players up the middle was borderline unwatchable at times last year. We have a short memory about how many times our pitchers got hung out to dry and then absolutely collapsed after witnessing gaffe after gaffe.

 

I'd love to see us start the season on defensive lockdown and it all starts up the middle because we know having Donaldson at 3rd and Martin behind the plate is going to be unreal.

[KingKat]

I like having Travis in AAA as depth, so I'd be OK with Izturis/Tolleson for the short-term. Or Kawasaki/Tolleson and DFA Izturis if Macier proves to be FUBAR in Spring Training.

 

Izturis/Tolleson would probably leaves Tolleson the main backup ss. Does that work for a team that's talked about giving Reyes DH starts?

[flafson]

I still believe in Goins, he's raw with his bat but it's all there, just gotta tap into the right places.

I have more confidence in Goins finding his bat than Gose finding his bat, luckily Gose isn't our problem anymore.

[SAAviour]

I guess I'd be ok with sending izturis to Baltimore for DD.

[jays76]

I still believe in Goins, he's raw with his bat but it's all there, just gotta tap into the right places.

I have more confidence in Goins finding his bat than Gose finding his bat, luckily Gose isn't our problem anymore.

 

He was probably the best player on the field defensively in games he started and integral to getting our team off the field. I'm sure games he started finished 20mins sooner on average

 

Shame about his bat, I don't know how much room for improvement there is to be honest but if him and Pompey are out there flashing web gems and killing rallies I think we can carry them at the bottom of the order.

[KingKat]

According to RosterRessource, the only 2B option who doesn't have options is Tolleson. Even Maicer theoretically can be sent down at no risk.

 

http://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-toronto-blue-jays/

[Brownie19]

Izturis/Tolleson would probably leaves Tolleson the main backup ss. Does that work for a team that's talked about giving Reyes DH starts?

 

This is what I was trying to get at when I asked if Goin's was average (or even above average) defensively at shortstop. We have to keep one MI who can backup Reyes.

 

As it stands right now - I'd go Donaldson, Reyes, Tolleson, Smoak, E5, Valencia & Goins (Bautista, Pompey, Saunders, Pillar, Thole/Navarro)

 

Goins & Tolleson platoon, as do Smoak & Valencia. Goins is the backup SS.

 

 

 

The career track of Goins isn't as far off from being a poor man's Andrelton Simmons...........difference being Simmons plays the premium defensive position.

[glory]

Izturis/Tolleson would probably leaves Tolleson the main backup ss. Does that work for a team that's talked about giving Reyes DH starts?

 

That's why Kawasaki/Tolleson makes more sense. Solid platoon plus Muni can slide over to short if Reyes needs to sit.

[KingKat]

Knowing Goins limitations, it doesn't seem worth it to lose Tolleson altogether to keep him on the team and rostering both at the same time would mean either pushing Tolleson into the 4th OF role or not having any kind of left-handed option for the middle infield.

 

C Martin

1B Smoak S (out of options)

2B Izturis S / Kawasaki L / Travis R

SS Reyes

3B Donaldson (out of options, not that it matters)

OF Bautista

OF Pompey

OF Saunders

DH Encarnacion

 

 

Bench

C Thole/Navarro

CI Danny Valencia (out of options)

MI Tolleson R (out of options) / Goins R

OF Pillar R / OF Dirks L

[KingKat]

That's why Kawasaki/Tolleson makes more sense. Solid platoon plus Muni can slide over to short if Reyes needs to sit.

 

I'm leaning that way too. A lot of fans would hate it because it would basically be the same as last year but Tolleson plays all the position and hits lefties well so I don't want to lose him altogether and Kawasaki compliments him better than Izturis does.

[jays76]

I'm leaning that way too. A lot of fans would hate it because it would basically be the same as last year but Tolleson plays all the position and hits lefties well so I don't want to lose him altogether and Kawasaki compliments him better than Izturis does.

 

I like Tolleson as a lefty bat coming off the bench but it ends there for me, he was atrocious in the field and muffed/missed so many playable balls. Was it eyesight related? Who knows.

 

I don't mind Kawasaki in a backup role, for all his deficiencies I love the way he works a PC. This is going to be disputable and also maybe intangible in relation to statistics but he seems to have good luck & timing for pulling off a big hit or walk at the right time.

 

Not a fan of Izturis period, especially coming off a full missed season.

[KingKat]

Not a fan of Izturis period, especially coming off a full missed season.

 

Izturis really needs to hit to justify any kind of job. He can't play SS anymore and he isn't good at the other positions either. He can switch hit but there's no real value in that unless he puts up good overall numbers. If you're going to employ players who don't hit much, you'd prefer a timeshare using guys with pronounced splits rather than all around mediocre switch hitter. Even at his best, Izturis was a jack of all trades, master of none kind of player. He wasn't tuly great at anything but you could plug him at any of the infield positions and against any pitcher and he would do fine and there was real value in that. As he declines, the lack of a single really good tool and the declining defensive versatility make him harder and harder to employ. I haven't completely written him off (he might still have one decent offensive season left in him) but the window is clearly closing on his time as an employable MLB baseball player.

[Brownie19]

That's why Kawasaki/Tolleson makes more sense. Solid platoon plus Muni can slide over to short if Reyes needs to sit.

 

Kawasaki has a better bat (and does funnier interviews), but worse defense. Goins has the defense, but a worse bat. As the 25th guy on the roster, give me the defense and tell Goins to eat bananas on the bench and say "monkey's never cramp" during his interviews from now on.

[jays76]

Izturis really needs to hit to justify any kind of job. He can't play SS anymore and he isn't good at the other positions either. He can switch hit but there's no real value in that unless he puts up good overall numbers. If you're going to employ players who don't hit much, you'd prefer a timeshare using guys with pronounced splits rather than all around mediocre switch hitter. Even at his best, Izturis was a jack of all trades, master of none kind of player. He wasn't tuly great at anything but you could plug him at any of the infield positions and against any pitcher and he would do fine and there was real value in that. As he declines, the lack of a single really good tool and the declining defensive versatility make him harder and harder to employ. I haven't completely written him off (he might still have one decent offensive season left in him) but the window is clearly closing on his time as an employable MLB baseball player.

 

Well said.

[burlingtonbandit]

Reading through this thread just reminds me how crap our options are at 2B. Besides Travis (who is a big ? himself) all the options are replacement level or most likely worse. We should really try to upgrade if we can because this team could be a hell of a lot better with a competent 2nd baseman.

[KingKat]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that by May/June there will be talk about Andy Burns getting a look. He had a rough start to 2014 but I think he finished pretty solidly. I think he has some upside there and I'm hoping for a bounce back season from him.

 

I think I'd rather Shimpf than Burns at this point.