Second Base Options

[BlueJaysCC]

Who do you guys think will start at second at least to start the season? I would expect Izturis starts over Goins if Travis doesn't impress in spring training no?

[Angrioter]

Izturis over Goins is a no-brainer.

[BlueJaysCC]

Yeah, I know, I was just trying to start a conversation. I am actually hopefull that Travis impresses so Goins can go back to the bench or AAA Edited January 14, 2015 by BlueJaysCC
Grammar

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Ok and what if Goins is average at the plate then who?

[Jonzo]

Has Goins ever been average at the plate? At this point I'd rather go with Izturis..

[BlueJaysCC]

Well if Goins is actually able to hit somewhat in spring training he may make the team but not likely. Travis could impress in the spring.

[BlueJaysCC]

Hopefully Izturis is able to hold the second base job at least until Travis is ready or the trade deadline. The Jays have good enough hitting to compete but the bottom of the order has to find a way to at least get on base.

[Caper]

Ok and what if Goins is average at the plate then who?

 

If Goins the was average at the plate he'd be one of the best second basemen in the league.

[Caper]

Izturis over Goins is a no-brainer.

 

Why? Goins is far superior defensively.

 

The team will have no problem scoring runs. They will be top 2 or 3 in the American League in runs scored. They will have a problem preventing them. Ryan Goins prevents runs.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Izturis, short of that disaster that was 2013, is a plus defender according to fangraphs. Typically, he has posted a plus WAR value. I take him over Goins. Sure Izturis is older and coming back from a serious injury, but I think since it's his contract year, and I'm assuming he's fully healed, he'll be okay holding the fort for Travis.

 

Although going with Goins wouldn't make me vomit. He's way better defensively.

 

I say, if Izturis shows good stuff in March, he's the man. For now.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Runs saved I think would be more important to a team with no pen! Offensively I agree we will hold our own against most teams! Besides the bottom already looks fine now that Reyes is batting 9th! Lol

[flafson]

Of course Goins, he needs to be super terrible at the plate for me to pick Izturis over him, like JPA 2013 bad.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Runs saved I think would be more important to a team with no pen! Offensively I agree we will hold our own against most teams! Besides the bottom already looks fine now that Reyes is batting 9th! Lol

 

Reyes is leading off. You're joking around, right?

[Key22]

Why? Goins is far superior defensively.

 

The team will have no problem scoring runs. They will be top 2 or 3 in the American League in runs scored. They will have a problem preventing them. Ryan Goins prevents runs.

 

I question the notion we're going to be an elite offensive team. We have 6 proven hitters on the team(counting Navarro). Saunders I might give you for a 7th but he hasn't proven it. Three possible black holes is two too many for a team trying to compete.

 

Second Base isn't even the problem. This pitching staff is going to get lit up like Clark Griswold's house at Christmas.

 

Edit - Okay so I just read the Vancouver Sun and got grouchy http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2015/01/13/toronto-blue-jays-need-to-convince-their-fan-base-that-they-are-serious-about-contending/

[KingKat]

I question the notion we're going to be an elite offensive team. We have 6 proven hitters on the team(counting Navarro). Saunders I might give you for a 7th but he hasn't proven it. Three possible black holes is two too many for a team trying to compete.

 

Second Base isn't even the problem. This pitching staff is going to get lit up like Clark Griswold's house at Christmas.

 

Edit - Okay so I just read the Vancouver Sun and got grouchy http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2015/01/13/toronto-blue-jays-need-to-convince-their-fan-base-that-they-are-serious-about-contending/

 

Saunders isn't elite but he isn't a black hole either. I think it's fair to say he's established as much.

[jaysfan2014]

I question the notion we're going to be an elite offensive team. We have 6 proven hitters on the team(counting Navarro). Saunders I might give you for a 7th but he hasn't proven it. Three possible black holes is two too many for a team trying to compete.

 

Second Base isn't even the problem. This pitching staff is going to get lit up like Clark Griswold's house at Christmas.

 

Edit - Okay so I just read the Vancouver Sun and got grouchy http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2015/01/13/toronto-blue-jays-need-to-convince-their-fan-base-that-they-are-serious-about-contending/

 

And that article looked poorly written.. basically it said "Spend spend spend", despite the fact the market isn't that great. And there are still bullpen arms out there.. but the price isn't right for ANYBODY right now. It's part of the reason Shields and Scherzer are still waiting for a contract.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Two other stop gap options are Rickie Weeks and Kelly Johnson (Jays likely wouldn't sign Johnson).

 

Johnson is no better than Izturus.

 

Weeks is intriguing for sure. How much would he command? It might take a multi-year deal to entice him, blocking Travis, but since Travis is far from a blue chip prospect that wouldn't bother me. I predict Weeks would be good for 1-2 WAR with the Jays. But maybe, just maybe, he'd take a 1-year deal to hope for a rebound year and rebuild value. I dunno.

 

I don't think the article is saying spend, spend, spend. Well, maybe it is, but it's not saying spend like a drunken sailor. I think it's saying what a lot of us think. We're soooooo close to having a really solid team. $20M more would get us a decent closer or two, and maybe a decent 2B. $30M gets us a good closer, a good starter, etc. $20-40M more would produce, what 5-7 more wins? That's a playoff spot. And a playoff spot would be a bonanza, money-wise, for Rogers. Certainly they would make that $20-40M back with ticket sales, merchandise, TV revenue. Another spin-off, increased season ticket sales for 2016. And spending that moolah, instead of trades, would mean we keep a lot of our prospects for the future. To me it's just common sense.

[KingKat]

Two other stop gap options are Rickie Weeks and Kelly Johnson (Jays likely wouldn't sign Johnson).

 

There's also Gordon Beckham although I think if there was any truth to the Jays rumoured interest, he would have been acquired by now.

 

Weeks is intriguing. It's hard to believe given how maligned he is but he's actually coming off a 800 OPS season in limited but not insignificant playing time. That surprised the hell out of me when I looked it up.

[KingKat]

Johnson is no better than Izturus.

 

Weeks is intriguing for sure. How much would he command? It might take a multi-year deal to entice him, blocking Travis, but since Travis is far from a blue chip prospect that wouldn't bother me.

 

Weeks' bat is solid enough that you might be able to justify giving him DH starts if and when Travis is ready.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Weeks' bat is solid enough that you might be able to justify giving him DH starts if and when Travis is ready.

 

Certainly no worse than Navarro as DH. More speed anyway.

[RealAccountant]

There is enough offense on this team that we can put up with Goins

[Stangstag]

I question the notion we're going to be an elite offensive team. We have 6 proven hitters on the team(counting Navarro). Saunders I might give you for a 7th but he hasn't proven it. Three possible black holes is two too many for a team trying to compete.

 

Second Base isn't even the problem. This pitching staff is going to get lit up like Clark Griswold's house at Christmas.

 

Edit - Okay so I just read the Vancouver Sun and got grouchy http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2015/01/13/toronto-blue-jays-need-to-convince-their-fan-base-that-they-are-serious-about-contending/

 

How exactly do we have 3 black holes? Only glaring hole i see is 2B. Pompey will be at least replacement level offensively.

[flafson]

Weeks' bat is solid enough that you might be able to justify giving him DH starts if and when Travis is ready.

 

I don't see how you can have 3 players playing DH at the same time... DH is Edwin's job, then at the moment you also have Dioner and you need to keep DH open enough so Reyes can man the position once in a while.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

I don't see how you can have 3 players playing DH at the same time... DH is Edwin's job, then at the moment you also have Dioner and you need to keep DH open enough so Reyes can man the position once in a while.

 

First, if we signed Weeks, he'd be the 2B this year, not DH. Secondly, Navarro wants out, so it's more likely than not that he's gone come opening day. Third, Smoak could suck ass. And then he's gone. We are not Detroit, we don't have a ton of professional hitters to work the DH spot. He is saying if we sign Weeks for 3 years, or something, we could possibly DH him in 2016 or 17, assuming Travis by then is ready to assume 2B over Weeks.

[KingKat]

Certainly no worse than Navarro as DH. More speed anyway.

 

Navarro is a platoon DH at most but Weeks is still somewhat decent from his weak side and even better than Navarro from his strong side. Almost certainly better unless they both hit to their 2013 levels (career best for Navarro, career worst for Weeks).

[SaskJaysFan_2]

How exactly do we have 3 black holes? Only glaring hole i see is 2B. Pompey will be at least replacement level offensively.

 

Yeah? Are you sure? His fall ball numbers weren't impressive. And even if he, say, was like 0.6 WAR in CF, other teams that are in contention are producing far more than that at that position.

[KingKat]

First, if we signed Weeks, he'd be the 2B this year, not DH. Secondly, Navarro wants out, so it's more likely than not that he's gone come opening day. Third, Smoak could suck ass. And then he's gone. We are not Detroit, we don't have a ton of professional hitters to work the DH spot. He is saying if we sign Weeks for 3 years, or something, we could possibly DH him in 2016 or 17, assuming Travis by then is ready to assume 2B over Weeks.

 

I mean I wasn't thinking that far ahead but I agree with what you said. Smoak is hardly a lock for everyday starts at 1B, Navarro should be salary dumped and the fact that Weeks' bat could potentially play at DH gives the team some options to work with. With injuries and what not, you never know exactly how things are going to play out. You don't have to have a 100% clear path. You can at least conceive of ways of getting him into the same lineup with Travis and that's enough for a guy who can be a stop gap for an immediate need. As for the commitment in years, I'm not sure it would take that much to sign him this late into the offseason. I'd prefer to wait it out and offer him a pillow contract like a true stop gap. I think there's a non-negligible chance he accepts that because long term commitments to defensively limited players aren't any more enticing for other teams than they are for the Jays.

[z3r0s]

imagine a MIF of Reyes and Weeks... oh my

 

That being said, I was a proponent of taking a flier on him last year, and I would this year for a 1-year type thing. As others have said, if he doesn't perform, hopefully Travis is tearing up the minors.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

imagine a MIF of Reyes and Weeks... oh my

 

That being said, I was a proponent of taking a flier on him last year, and I would this year for a 1-year type thing. As others have said, if he doesn't perform, hopefully Travis is tearing up the minors.

 

OMG, I just looked at his defensive details. He sux! I thought he was ok on that side.

[Angrioter]

Two other stop gap options are Rickie Weeks and Kelly Johnson (Jays likely wouldn't sign Johnson).

 

Weeks glove

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/6/65/Rock_glove.png/revision/latest?cb=20140517113729