Blue Jays Interested In Victor Martinez and anyone who breathes.

[Chappy]

Victor Martinez is projected at like 2.5 wins, which seems pretty fair. Lind and a proper platoon partner probably give you 2 wins. This would be a really inefficient (bad) sequence of moves.

 

Not that I'm advocating this move, but VM gives this roster a lot more flexibility not having to platoon him. Keeping Adam Lind meant that we would always have to have a platoon partner for him which eats a roster spot.

[BTS]

Not that I'm advocating this move, but VM gives this roster a lot more flexibility not having to platoon him. Keeping Adam Lind meant that we would always have to have a platoon partner for him which eats a roster spot.

 

I hate that idea. You don't need to platoon him with a guy who can't do anything but DH. A good defensive OF who hits from the right side would let you play Bautista at DH vs. lefties. The idea that "Lind wastes two roster spots" is f***ing stupid.

[Angrioter]

Lind + platoon partner = 2/25 spot

VMart = 1/25 spot

[Chappy]

I hate that idea. You don't need to platoon him with a guy who can't do anything but DH. A good defensive OF who hits from the right side would let you play Bautista at DH vs. lefties. The idea that "Lind wastes two roster spots" is f***ing stupid.

 

With this roster construction it does waste 2 spots because AA is too stupid to find a solid RHB that can play in the OF. If he could find an adequate 2B or 3B and dump Francisco who only adds to this problem then it makes sense. But we have a useless backup catcher in Thole, an extreme platoon hitter at 3B in Francisco, And our bench has Mayberry who is a terrible defender. Platoons are ideal when players can field a position, but we have so much junk on this roster.

[Dick_Pole]

?? Relief pitching ahead of Victor??

 

No position is more important than another according to math. If a DH will add more wins then a reliever you take the DH. Victor will likely add a couple wins. That is more important then moves that WON'T add a couple wins, but less important then moves that will.

 

So if we can get Troy Tuwlo for SS and move Reyes somehow... then that is more important then Victor. If we are talkiing Brandon Phillops for second it may not be.

 

And by the way where the hell will you find a backup MIF that is good enough to DH in his spare time??

 

I'm not really sure about what you're arguing here. Assuming no follow up moves and the Jays could acquire Phillips or Martinez, I'd take Phillips hands down. He can replace Goins. The DH role can be rotated.

 

And I disagree with your statement "No position is more important than another according to math". The DH position is unquestionably less important than a player who fields.

 

And AA will find that Reyes will be good enough to probably take 20 or so of those DH slots throughout the year.

[closetjaysfan]

Saying you are "interested" in making a deal for someone is meaningless to me. Until I see ink drying on a contract it is either a rumor with no basis or one that is deliberately fabricated to say "hey look at us, we are doing things... and stuff". The pessimist in me is thinking that one by one these free agents are going to sign until we are left with Sierra and Rasmus reincarnated. Meanwhile the optimist in me is sitting in the corner, finger in his ears going "la la la la la la la".

 

Dear FO: make a move before the rest of my hair falls out.

[closetjaysfan]

Just out of curiosity: Can anyone sight an example of "Jays interested in signing PLAYERX" that actually became a reality?

[NorthOfTO]

Just out of curiosity: Can anyone sight an example of "Jays interested in signing PLAYERX" that actually became a reality?

 

Maicer Izturis?

[SAAviour]

All this interest makes me feel AA has some trades up his sleeve. Maybe Buerhle and reyes with their 40 million are getting shipped out?

 

Which makes me think, would u rather have reyes and his 20 mil at short or goins and his 500k plus someone like Martin at catcher or panda at 3rd.

[GD]

All this interest makes me feel AA has some trades up his sleeve. Maybe Buerhle and reyes with their 40 million are getting shipped out?

 

Which makes me think, would u rather have reyes and his 20 mil at short or goins and his 500k plus someone like Martin at catcher or panda at 3rd.

 

Martin + Goins > Reyes + ok 2B > Sandoval + Goins

[Jimcanuck]

All this interest makes me feel AA has some trades up his sleeve. Maybe Buerhle and reyes with their 40 million are getting shipped out?

 

Which makes me think, would u rather have reyes and his 20 mil at short or goins and his 500k plus someone like Martin at catcher or panda at 3rd.

 

Martin and Goins over Reyes value wise but now it's Lawrie or Pompey leading off.... the lineup is a little f***ed w/o Reyes

[SAAviour]

How about Martin + Tulo > Martin + Goins > Reyes + ok 2B > Sandoval + Goins

 

I guy can dream can't he, it is the offseason isn't it...

[GD]

How about Martin + Tulo > Martin + Goins > Reyes + ok 2B > Sandoval + Goins

 

I guy can dream can't he, it is the offseason isn't it...

 

Happ + Pillar for Tulo? Value sounds pretty fair.

[oakville69]

I find it a little peculiar that there seems to be more transparency in the Jays off season. As if they want to show us they are in on players so that if nothing happens they can say well you saw we were in on a lot of people.

 

I agree. I can't see the Jays signing any of the top tier free agents. AA prefers trades & special situations. Melky was the biggest signing of AA's career , but he had PED issues back then.

 

At best, the Jays get Melky back.

 

I do think someone in the Jays PR department thought it would help ticket sales & buzz to have the Jays linked to all the top free agents. It doesn't cost the team anything & keeps the Jays in the news during the offseason.

[SAAviour]

Happ + Pillar for Tulo? Value sounds pretty fair.

 

I don't know about that. Tulo is injured and Happ is a pretty good #5...not to mention pillar would likely hit like Tulo in coors field, major breakout candidate.

[GD]

I don't know about that. Tulo is injured and Happ is a pretty good #5...not to mention pillar would likely hit like Tulo in coors field, major breakout candidate.

 

Also, you can't make puns with Tuloeuropewhatever's name like you can with Happ. That's a serious problem for the fine, well-respected sportswriters of this city.

[Olerud363]

Victor Martinez is projected at like 2.5 wins, which seems pretty fair. Lind and a proper platoon partner probably give you 2 wins. This would be a really inefficient (bad) sequence of moves.

 

Adam Lind is projected for 1.2 wins in 102 games, Martinez 2.5.

 

So with a platoon partner that produces at the same rate as Adam, Your looking at 1.5 to 2.5 for 130 games.

 

Lind at 8 million... platoon guy at 2... so it would be 10 million for 1.5 wins. That puts 2.5 at 16 million.

 

I am not advocating Lind or Martinez.

 

I am advocating logic and numbers. You could say Victor Martinez is not worth it at one price or another.

 

Switching Lind at 8 million + platoon mate for Martinez is not a ridiculous move unless Martinez is getting 25 million a year or something...

 

well I guess the draft pick is an issue too. Still at some price Martiinez makes sense.

[BTS]

Adam Lind is projected for 1.2 wins in 102 games, Martinez 2.5.

 

So with a platoon partner that produces at the same rate as Adam, Your looking at 1.5 to 2.5 for 130 games.

 

Lind at 8 million... platoon guy at 2... so it would be 10 million for 1.5 wins. That puts 2.5 at 16 million.

 

I am not advocating Lind or Martinez.

 

I am advocating logic and numbers. You could say Victor Martinez is not worth it at one price or another.

 

Switching Lind at 8 million + platoon mate for Martinez is not a ridiculous move unless Martinez is getting 25 million a year or something...

 

well I guess the draft pick is an issue too. Still at some price Martiinez makes sense.

 

Draft pick compensation + the fact the V-Mart is a multi-year commitment and Lind + platoon guy wouldn't be.

[kgm1]

Draft pick compensation + the fact the V-Mart is a multi-year commitment and Lind + platoon guy wouldn't be.

 

This is all a moot point . The rumor that we are looking at VMart is the usual rumor agents use to pump up their client . I give the odds of us signing VMart at about .005 %

 

AA has priorities this year

Bull Pen

Bull Pen

MIF

Outfielder

catcher

 

I can assure everyone he will run out of money long before he gets past MIF. If he even gets that far

Edited November 11, 2014 by kgm1

[glory]

Jays real list:

 

Position

1- Valbuena

2- Ackley

3- Denorfia

4- Morse

5- Ellis

6- Callaspo

7- Ludwick

8- DelmonY

 

Bullpen

1- Grilli

2- Meek

3- Carlos Oviedo

4- Stauffer

 

I remember reading that AA made a higher offer to Grilli than the Pirates did but Grilli ended up re-signing with Pittsburgh. Wouldn't surprise me if he brings Grilli in with a promise of closing. My first thought was K-Rod (all dem saves!), but maybe he'd go with Grilli instead.

 

I'm going to go with AA signing Grilli, Oviedo, and Asdrubal. Replace one of the relievers with K-Rod if applicable. Anyone expecting a major splash will be disappointed.

[Dick_Pole]

I'm so f***ing sick of the BP. The five guys who ended in the rotation threw 890 innings last year. Happ and Stroman didn't start the year in the rotation. Depending on how willing they are to stretch out Stroman those five guys could approach 1000 innings next year. The bullpen will be one of the most underworked in the league. And an underworked bullpen = a pretty good shot of being a dominant bullpen.

 

Cecil, Sanchez, Loup. That's a good base to start off of. Righty BP guys are a dime a dozen. Redmond can cover the long man/mop up stuff. Estrada (if still around) will be in the mix, or failing him, McGowan. Really the Jays only need one guy, and I wouldn't lose sleep if they don't get one and just invite Delabar back into the mix. Drabek, Hendriks, Graveman should all be in the mix too. And like I said, the BP guy should be way down the priority list, one head of Martinez.

 

If one of those guys in the rotation gets injured, or blows up, forget it the Jays aren't going anywhere near the playoffs anyways. The best chance this team has of winning is just assume that everyone in the rotation is going to repeat what they did last year or do better, and put every penny of available resources into defense and offense at the biggest holes.

[glory]

I'm almost certain they will trade Happ and put Sanchez in the rotation (with Estrada being the emergency swing man option in case Sanchez fails). AA is going to invest in the bullpen. Whether he should or not is another story, but he will. No way around it. We just have to hope he doesn't spend most of the available money on the pen, and instead values the defense and offense.

[Jimcanuck]

I hear you all about Burly's 200 IP and non-injury history, but who here believes Burly will repeat 2014 and not revert back to 2013 performance? 2013 is his true talent at this stage in his career IMO.

 

I'd move Burly if I can and sign McCarthy for less money

[Olerud363]

And I disagree with your statement "No position is more important than another according to math". The DH position is unquestionably less important than a player who fields.

 

I'm just pointing that the formulas for WAR and stuff ready include your arguments. So the decision between Martinez and say Brandon Phillips wouldn't be "need" it would be based on the expected wins each add to the team.

 

Ryan Goins (.200 hitter with + defense) might be bad. But our projected DH (? who again) might be equally bad in terms of a DH.

 

The decision for player A or player B should be based on additional wins not "need".

 

If we had a 4 win outfielder it wouldn't be a position of need. But if the opportunity came to replace that guy with Mike Trout it would be a better move then improving a position of "need" by a win or two.

[Angrioter]

I'm just pointing that the formulas for WAR and stuff ready include your arguments. So the decision between Martinez and say Brandon Phillips wouldn't be "need" it would be based on the expected wins each add to the team.

 

Ryan Goins (.200 hitter with + defense) might be bad. But our projected DH (? who again) might be equally bad in terms of a DH.

 

The decision for player A or player B should be based on additional wins not "need".

 

If we had a 4 win outfielder it wouldn't be a position of need. But if the opportunity came to replace that guy with Mike Trout it would be a better move then improving a position of "need" by a win or two.

 

A little of both things

 

VMart 2.5 Wins + Goins -0.5 wins = 2 Wins

Phillips 2.5 Wins + DH 1 wins = 3.5 Wins

[Angrioter]

http://s.quickmeme.com/img/e9/e99000426483e0b690e30b323a0693475f873c145510b255bc6c54b9ce877a72.jpg

[Olerud363]

A little of both things

 

VMart 2.5 Wins + Goins -0.5 wins = 2 Wins

Phillips 2.5 Wins + DH 1 wins = 3.5 Wins

 

This is assuming that we have a 1 win DH (who??) and that Ryan Goins will be the second basemen instead of Kawasaki (at 0.5 wins or so). And that Phillips and VMart are the same. If you change assumptions slightly.

 

VMart 3 WINS + Kawasaki 0.5 wins = 3.5 Wins

Phillips 2 WINS + DH 0.5 wins =2.5 wind

 

So the math is a bit fuzzy too.

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm the one who's gone all "old school". And my memories are biasing me. Anyone who watched Winfield and then Molitor solidify the DH spot in 92 and 93 has fond memories of the the professional hitter DH. Just seems that you get that player. Hit them 3rd or 4th the entire year. Score some runs then figure the rest out later.

 

Fan Graphs has Winfield at 3.8 and Molitor at 4.8 in 92 and 93. But the expectation is VMart would only be 2.5??

 

Molitor and Winfield played above expectation I guess.

[Angrioter]

jonmorosi

Justin Upton's updated no-trade list allows him to block deals to Cubs, Brewers, Indians, and Blue Jays, source says.

[Angrioter]

This is assuming that we have a 1 win DH (who??) and that Ryan Goins will be the second basemen instead of Kawasaki (at 0.5 wins or so). And that Phillips and VMart are the same. If you change assumptions slightly.

 

VMart 3 WINS + Kawasaki 0.5 wins = 3.5 Wins

Phillips 2 WINS + DH 0.5 wins =2.5 wind

 

So the math is a bit fuzzy too.

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm the one who's gone all "old school". And my memories are biasing me. Anyone who watched Winfield and then Molitor solidify the DH spot in 92 and 93 has fond memories of the the professional hitter DH. Just seems that you get that player. Hit them 3rd or 4th the entire year. Score some runs then figure the rest out later.

 

Fan Graphs has Winfield at 3.8 and Molitor at 4.8 in 92 and 93. But the expectation is VMart would only be 2.5??

 

Molitor and Winfield played above expectation I guess.

 

"Need" and "WAR/WINS" in some cases, they go together. We need Wins, and for that you must upgrade some areas.

 

Point 1A: Reduce the PA of the below replacement level players.

[Dick_Pole]

I'm just pointing that the formulas for WAR and stuff ready include your arguments. So the decision between Martinez and say Brandon Phillips wouldn't be "need" it would be based on the expected wins each add to the team.

 

Ryan Goins (.200 hitter with + defense) might be bad. But our projected DH (? who again) might be equally bad in terms of a DH.

 

The decision for player A or player B should be based on additional wins not "need".

 

If we had a 4 win outfielder it wouldn't be a position of need. But if the opportunity came to replace that guy with Mike Trout it would be a better move then improving a position of "need" by a win or two.

 

I understand what you're saying, but my point is what's more achievable in practice.

 

It's easy to upgrade 2B, because 2B for the Jays is crap. Mike Trout isn't coming here unless significant holes were created elsewhere. I know you meant it as just an example, but it isn't an achievable scenario.

 

Out of the scenarios that are achievable given the circumstances, 2B is much important to upgrade over anything else.