Aaron Sanchez stud thread

[Iluvbjs]

This forum is pretty volatile. Happy one day, crying the next. His stuff is undeniable though, but let's see how this board handles one of his outings where he walks the bases loaded.

 

Who cares if he walks the bases loaded? The fly by your pants hero fans that post on this board? I don't care if he has a 150 inning sample size and an era of 6.5. He needs that experience to grow, just like Roy did. I don't care if he gets bombed every time out. He's a young pitcher and that's bound to happen. People who complain about dumb s*** like that have obviously never played the game.

 

The board and the organization acted the same way with Henderson Alvarez and I was shocked by all the s*** that people were saying about a first year guy going through his growing pains. I follow every start he makes with Miami, and IMO he is going to win 20 games one season down the road. He has that filthy movement on his fastball and just needed more time to develop his secondary pitches. Now he's getting it down there and has a no hitter under his belt already. But these "boards" were ready to hang him and that shows how much a lot of these people actually know about baseball. My guess is that they've never played it competitively and have no clue what it's like to get out there and struggle, or what's it's like to face guys throwing 94 plus 10 days in a row, then face a few junkballers that f*** up your timing and your swing.

 

Sanchez will grow and people need to STFU and be patient with the kid. f***, if we gave up on Roy way back when he got sent back to A ball, look what we would have missed out on.

[Iluvbjs]

This thread is lol

 

Anyone interested in a 4 or 5 figure bet that he finishes with a bb/9 > 6 (given a significant sample size lets say 30IP?)

 

Who the f*** cares if he does? Let him do what he's going to do and hopefully he learns from it. Anyone who wants to make you a bet based on his first ML experience with a 30 inning sample size is a complete f***ing moron anyways. People need to stop assuming the worst out of our young talent and encourage them instead. Let him get the experience and let him fail so hopefully he can learn from it.

[reedjohnsonfan]

So everyone loves Sanchez again? What happens when he walks the ballpark his next outing?

 

He can show flashes of brilliance. It's hard not to get excited when you see what he's capable of.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Yeah it's still early but D'Arnaud so far has only played 91 games in the majors over almost 2 seasons, and has provided replacement level performance, and Syndergaard has been injured and mediocre. Not a good start for either. Odds that at least one of them becomes an above average player are probably still pretty good though? I'd still bet on Syndergaard.

 

There you go. So many guys end up sucking. The forum has been overrating young players for years. Lawrie and Stroman are legit... Snider, Syndergaard, D'Arnaud, Drabek, Wallace, Michael Taylor, even Gose to an extent haven't shown that they can be good players. Snider is the best that I've named so far since he's sticking as a bench player for the Pirates!

 

Then there's Hechavarria who still can't hit, and Alvarez (who I thought was going to be good) has been a good starter this year but still doesn't have stuff to punch guys out. The list goes on, should I go back into the 1980s?

[Iluvbjs]

Disagree with every single thing you say here

 

Stroman having a couple bad weeks in the pen during his MLB debut does not mean he could never be good in the pen

 

And he's been a GOOD starter

 

And his attitude might make him better than his stuff would suggest. Fearlessness is good for a pitcher.

 

There isn't enough evidence for either guy. 2 months is nowhere NEAR enough of a sample size to put a label on him. Halladay was one out away from throwing a no hitter and had a few similar sample sizes of similar length before he eventually regressed and had to go all the way back to retool.

 

What makes me laugh are all these people who make fun of others for their views, yet profess to know that Stroman is the real deal and pretend to know how far ahead of Sanchez he is in his progression. I'll have to find the link to the articles I read a while back, but from what I've read and seen, Sanchez is very coachable and eager to learn and Stroman is much more fiery, cocky and hard to coach for that reason. Being fiery and cocky can be a good thing in a pitcher, but NOT necessarily a young one. Young playersa with that attitude often think they know everything and aren't willing to learn from more experienced players and coaches. Either way, Stroman has made 10 big league starts, so peoples love affair with him on such a small sample size is no more unrealistic that what people are saying about Sanchez.

[Angrioter]

Stroman over Wacha I don't even care.

[Jimcanuck]

Hard to have this debate when Stro is dealing a no-no!

 

Sanchez is 1 year younger.... will another year of experience give him the control he needs to be Kershaw-lite?

 

Both have elite stuff, Sanchez has slightly better stuff.

 

How about they are 1A and 1B, interchangeably

[Iluvbjs]

Hard to have this debate when Stro is dealing a no-no!

 

Sanchez is 1 year younger.... will another year of experience give him the control he needs to be Kershaw-lite?

 

Both have elite stuff, Sanchez has slightly better stuff.

 

How about they are 1A and 1B, interchangeably

 

Don't even compare their hat size dude!! The keyboard jockies on here will be telling you you're comparing them in every way right down to which way their nuts descended!

[G-Snarls]

[TwistedLogic]

From an apocalyptic level of outrage over his "early" callup, to 8 pages of "Sanchez Stud". In two innings.

 

LOL

[TwistedLogic]

Hard to have this debate when Stro is dealing a no-no!

 

Sanchez is 1 year younger.... will another year of experience give him the control he needs to be Kershaw-lite?

 

Both have elite stuff, Sanchez has slightly better stuff.

 

How about they are 1A and 1B, interchangeably

Oh god.

[TwistedLogic]

Sanchez is young... Will a year of struggles and tribulation give him the maniacal, uncontrollable mound-rage he needs to be Drabek-hevy?

 

Both have elite stuff.

 

Tune in next time to find out.

 

Or how about you mongs stop pretending you know a twig's worth about player development and let the guy be and become the first and only Aaron Sanchez, for better or for worse.

[RIPEXPOS]

And he didn't even get a swinging strike! The only thing that was studly (the velocity) we already knew about.

 

Seeing him control the curve was somewhat of a revelation that bodes well, as well he didn't walk anyone...

[TwistedLogic]

Seeing him control the curve was somewhat of a revelation that bodes well, as well he didn't walk anyone...

 

Not to anyone that has followed him in any form or capacity.

[Stangstag]

And he didn't even get a swinging strike! The only thing that was studly (the velocity) we already knew about.

 

???

 

Yes he did

[GD]

???

 

Yes he did

 

Brooks and Fangraphs say no.

[Stangstag]

Brooks and Fangraphs say no.

 

Ok maybe im misremembering

[GD]

Ok maybe im misremembering

 

Maybe. I dunno, I'm with you, I thought he did. But the data says no.

[havok24]

???

 

Yes he did

 

Nope. North was right, he didn't generate one swinging strike last night.

[Stangstag]

Nope. North was right, he didn't generate one swinging strike last night.

 

Either way, i don't really think it matters. He got alot of called strikes that guys just couldn't pull the trigger on

[Jimcanuck]

Sanchez is young... Will a year of struggles and tribulation give him the maniacal, uncontrollable mound-rage he needs to be Drabek-hevy?

 

Both have elite stuff.

 

Tune in next time to find out.

 

Or how about you mongs stop pretending you know a twig's worth about player development and let the guy be and become the first and only Aaron Sanchez, for better or for worse.

 

garbage post

[kgm1]

When I come home from work I don't have to look at the score to know if the Jays won...I just have to look at the number of reported posts.

 

I missed the Sanchez outing but have watched 5 games in the minors this year. Did anyone expect a guy who's had huge control problems, but still remained a top 50 prospect, to not be absolutely filthy? For Sanchez, just like his Dirty Sanchez brother Danny in Cleveland, it's going to be about pitch counts. I did some data on his count in the first and how the game went. When he has his stuff early and keeps it low in the first he's been good for the game. When he has a high count in the first (even when he gives up no runs) he's struggled. Might be part of why they want him as a reliever, just a confidence boost for him.

 

And this is why you don't deal these guys . His stuff is such that if he gains even average command of his pitches and a decent change he will be a 3/4 starter and if he doesn't well he could be a Rodney type closer but FFS 2 innings and suddenly he is the 2nd coming of Halladay . i would have left him in AAA and not wasted an option year.

[Jimcanuck]

And this is why you don't deal these guys . His stuff is such that if he gains even average command of his pitches and a decent change he will be a 3/4 starter and if he doesn't well he could be a Rodney type closer but FFS 2 innings and suddenly he is the 2nd coming of Halladay . i would have left him in AAA and not wasted an option year.

 

Folks (including me) are just excited by the obvious potential. I've followed the Jays since 1977 and there's only been a few times when a guy comes up from the minors with that kind of stuff. Stieb, Halladay, Guzman, Carpenter, McGowan

[NorthOf49]

Either way, i don't really think it matters. He got alot of called strikes that guys just couldn't pull the trigger on

Called strikeouts aren't nearly as meaningful as swinging strikes from a predictive standpoint though.

 

It's turned into a bit of a meme at this point, but swinging strikes are how relievers butter their bread. Every elite reliever generates an elite swinging strike rate. Two innings is obviously too small a sample to care about in any context, but I have a hard time saying an outing is studly if it didn't include a swinging strike.

[Stangstag]

Called strikeouts aren't nearly as meaningful as swinging strikes from a predictive standpoint though.

 

It's turned into a bit of a meme at this point, but swinging strikes are how relievers butter their bread. Every elite reliever generates an elite swinging strike rate. Two innings is obviously too small a sample to care about in any context, but I have a hard time saying an outing is studly if it didn't include a swinging strike.

 

Fair point. I still think Sanchez isn't ready. He'll walk 3 in his next outing

[TwistedLogic]

Step down from your soap box, please...

 

When you step out of your drunken stupor.

[Boxcar]

Saw some posts the other day " there are dumb GMs out there that still think Sanchez is a top prospect "

 

I say those are dumb posters

 

Sanchez is a special pitching talent - ace material (same thing said about McGowan some years ago, mind)

 

f*** would I ever rather have Syndergaard over Dickey tho

 

Yes, the people out there who aren't changing their minds over one appearance are total idiots.

[KingKat]

Yes, the people out there who aren't changing their minds over one appearance are total idiots.

 

I think anyone who thought he wasn't a top prospect actually SHOULD change their mind because that's a dumb thing to believe in the first place. I'm practically the leader of the trade Sanchez train but I would never say he's not one of the Jays best prospects. The whole point of trading him is that he does have good stuff, he is a legit prospect and you should be able to get something out of him if you trade him now but since he's also spun his wheels a fair bit, you might want to cash him in rather than risk him having another bad season and losing value. Do you risk having him come back to haunt you if you trade him? Of course you do but that risk is the whole reason why you can still get something for him if you trade him soon. If he was just a struggling pitcher with o.k. stuff he wouldn't be much of anything really. There has to be something there. He's a guy with great stuff and serious question marks about his ability to put it together. A legit prospect with legit question marks. That's what he was coming into the season and that's what he is now. He flashes amazing potential at times (most notably in the AFL) and he undeperforms overall. Nothing has changed really but if someone who thought he was just a bum and a complete lost cause (and yet somehow still a ranked prospect for reasons unknown) has had their eyes opened a bit, that's actually a good thing.

[Jimcanuck]

Whats gets me is a prospect has a couple of good months and is suddenly untouchable. Whereas a guy with elite tools and size struggles a bit and he's a bust/trade him.

 

Isn't the whole idea to trade high, buy low?

[KingKat]

 

Isn't the whole idea to trade high, buy low?

 

Sure in theory but it's only ever clear in hindsight whether a player has peaked or has bottomed out. Maybe this is a good as Pompey will ever look (I'm assuming you were referencing him above) and maybe he's going to climb up the charts (so to speak). If it's the former, the team will really regret selling high if it's the later, they will regret selling low but they'll only know that for sure after the fact.