Aaron Sanchez stud thread

[gruber92]

http://s.quickmeme.com/img/fb/fb63a51fefaef29b768767701e331b7dead3b62061cee39ecab925bb1dde1291.jpg

 

lol !!

[Iluvbjs]

It's not like he wants Sanchez to fail, he probably loves the stuff just as much as the next guy, but we have to be realistic. We need a good sample before people start comparing Sanchez to Kershaw (yes that happened in the GDT).

 

Who compared him to Kershaw? You?

 

All I remember is reading some post where somebody said his curveball was as nasty as Kershaw's.

 

Quite the FAR CRY from actually comparing the makup of two pitchers....you know, with what they bring to the table as far as experience, fastball command, composure, secondary pitches, attitude, baseball background. I don't remember reading about anything to do with any of that. Just simply how remarkable similar their movement is on a single pitch that both guys happen to throw.

[North of 60]

Trade him after a high.

[Iluvbjs]

No it's not. Look at the scouting reports of both pitchers and you'll find out who has the better breaking pitch. Just opern your eyes and you can see flat out who has the better curveball. So troll better yourself asswipe.

[Iluvbjs]

I know it was only two innings, but there's a chance these "control issues" in the minors might be due to him trying to learn/employ a cutter. He actually located his hard fastball pretty good, and he has the rare ability to control his curveball. Beauty.

 

Exactly, he has a MLB ready curveball that he can throw low in the zone on a consistent basis. Stroman doesn't have anything even close to that. He has good movement on his breaking pitches, but his command of that pitch is not anywhere near being on the same level as Sanchez.

[Atothe]

[Atothe]

http://gamereax.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/StromanSlider.gif

[Nox]

http://gamereax.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/StromanSlider.gif

 

Well the stuff looks nasty as hell. Don't think that surprises anybody. I feel like he could probably throw about 105 if he actually used his lower half.

 

Let's maybe not declare his curve a far better than average mlb offering (or better than Stroman's) until he induces at least 1 swing and miss with it.

 

Edit: didn't mean for the post to reply to yours.

[admin]

Obviously it was one outing and we'll have to see how his control is, but his 'stuff' is filthy. 98 with movement like that reminds me of Brandon League. His breaking ball looked good too, but they weren't biting on it too much. And he was so fluid, he barely looked like he was throwing hard. I definitely didn't expect him to look that good.

[Caper]

Keith Law apparently hates what the Jays did with his delivery. His opinion means something. There is a number one pitcher somewhere in that guy. Not sure if the Jays will be able to bring it out of him.

[comeon sense]

Never saw anyone make 99MPH look so easy.

Nolan Ryan was once clocked at 106MPH,and Tim Wallach hit a homerun to Centerfield in the Astrodome off one of those pitches.

[Iluvbjs]

Well the stuff looks nasty as hell. Don't think that surprises anybody. I feel like he could probably throw about 105 if he actually used his lower half.

 

Let's maybe not declare his curve a far better than average mlb offering (or better than Stroman's) until he induces at least 1 swing and miss with it.

 

Edit: didn't mean for the post to reply to yours.

 

Well, I played for a few years and from my own perspective, it actually means MORE when you lock a guy up with it. When guys made me flinch, with the fear for just a flash of a second that the ball was going to hit me, then the realization that it's a curve, locks you up cos you realize it's too late to pull the trigger.That's the mark of a great curve. Burt Blyleven was a master at it. He'd buckle knees and even get guys ducking out of the way of strike 3 calls.

 

When a guy takes a healthy cut at your curve, unless he's either way out front or misses hitting it by a good foot or so, it really doesn't speak much to the validity of the pitch. Stroman has enough movement to get that swing and a miss, but Sanchez has that curveball that just locks you up and we saw it twice tonight. Neither Nava or Drew had a chance, they were both completly fooled and overmatched. The less you can get guys to swing at a pitch you can throw consistently for strike 3 speaks volumes. Especially in situations where you need that strikeout with a guy on third and less than 2 outs, or bases loaded and 1 or even nobody out. Sanchez has that curveball that will get hit way less because hitters won't swing at it as often. Swinging strike 3's are great but when you've got a guy like sanchez with the movement and command he has of that pitch?

 

When he gains command of that fastball, or IF he does, I think his ceiling is far higher than Stromans. I'd rather face Marcus 100 times out of 100

[Laika]

Damn, wasn't able to watch his first outing. Hopefully a highlight package pops up somewhere.

[Laika]

Well, I played for a few years and from my own perspective, it actually means MORE when you lock a guy up with it. When guys made me flinch, with the fear for just a flash of a second that the ball was going to hit me, then the realization that it's a curve, locks you up cos you realize it's too late to pull the trigger.That's the mark of a great curve. Burt Blyleven was a master at it. He'd buckle knees and even get guys ducking out of the way of strike 3 calls.

 

When a guy takes a healthy cut at your curve, unless he's either way out front or misses hitting it by a good foot or so, it really doesn't speak much to the validity of the pitch. Stroman has enough movement to get that swing and a miss, but Sanchez has that curveball that just locks you up and we saw it twice tonight. Neither Nava or Drew had a chance, they were both completly fooled and overmatched. The less you can get guys to swing at a pitch you can throw consistently for strike 3 speaks volumes. Especially in situations where you need that strikeout with a guy on third and less than 2 outs, or bases loaded and 1 or even nobody out. Sanchez has that curveball that will get hit way less because hitters won't swing at it as often. Swinging strike 3's are great but when you've got a guy like sanchez with the movement and command he has of that pitch?

 

When he gains command of that fastball, or IF he does, I think his ceiling is far higher than Stromans. I'd rather face Marcus 100 times out of 100

 

Actually, you might have a really good point.

 

Sabermetrically speaking there is a lot of focus on SwStr%. I don't think a lot of people have ever paid much attention to called strike % with breaking balls, but it might, just maybe, be a significant thing.

 

If you've ever played baseball you definitely know that feeling when you think a curve might plunk you in the elbow or the belt, and it drops in for a strike down the pipe. On the contrary though, that type of pitch would also induce a lot of swings and misses if you started it in the zone, so statistically speaking the easier (better) thing to look at would probably be SwStr%. Called strikes as we've described could have real significance from a scouting perspective though, since scouting occurs in small sample sizes.

 

I feel like a lot of called strike % with breaking balls (or any pitches) would be sequencing though, so it would be hard to delineate raw pitch quality vs. sequencing. For instance, Bark Muehrle gets a lot of called strikes with 40/50 grade stuff.

[dineke]

He will fulfill everything Mark Sanchez was supposed to. The real Sanchise.

[GD]

Sabermetrically speaking there is a lot of focus on SwStr%. I don't think a lot of people have ever paid much attention to called strike % with breaking balls, but it might, just maybe, be a significant thing.

 

Doubt this data is available for the minors so we'll just have to wait.

[Angrioter]

Actually, you might have a really good point.

 

Sabermetrically speaking there is a lot of focus on SwStr%. I don't think a lot of people have ever paid much attention to called strike % with breaking balls, but it might, just maybe, be a significant thing.

 

I feel like a lot of called strike % with breaking balls (or any pitches) would be sequencing though, so it would be hard to delineate raw pitch quality vs. sequencing. For instance, Bark Muehrle gets a lot of called strikes with 40/50 grade stuff.

 

The art of fooling hitters.

[Laika]

Doubt this data is available for the minors so we'll just have to wait.

 

Pretty sure MLB teams have PitchFX data at the college level these days. Publicly available, no.

[GD]

Pretty sure MLB teams have PitchFX data at the college level these days. Publicly available, no.

 

Yeah, publicly, I doubt it.

[Caper]

Never saw anyone make 99MPH look so easy.

Nolan Ryan was once clocked at 106MPH,and Tim Wallach hit a homerun to Centerfield in the Astrodome off one of those pitches.

 

 

This.

[Iluvbjs]

http://gamereax.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/StromanSlider.gif

 

I don't get what that's supposed to prove? That hitter took a healthy cut at that pitch and wasn't out front. It has nowhere near the same snap or movement that Sanchez has on his. If that guy connects, that ball is getting mashed. I'd rather have a guy who throwas a pitch down in the zone that either

 

A) freeezes the hitter and he gets called out

swings and hits a weak pop up or rolls over on a ground ball

 

From what I've seen from Sanchez, he has excellent command low in the zone with his curve. It's in the scouting report and we saw about six of them tonight that were all down in the zone, almost in the EXACT same spot. He locked two guys up that could do nothing but watch as they were beaten by his fastball and overmatched and frozen by his curve. If Sanchez had anywhere near the command Sto has with his fastball, he'd be a superior pitcher. Stroman's fastball is pretty straight and Sanchez's sinks and darts all over the place. I've seen Stro hang his curve a LOT and I've seen it get mashed on at least a dozen occasions.

 

Lets wait and see what happens with Sanchez and lets see how often hitters even make solid contact off of it. I'll make you a bet that Sanchez's curve gets more strikeouts and doesn't get hit anywhere near as hard due to his command with the pitch low in the zone. I swear on my mothers life I'll pay you off dude if I'm wrong, no f***ing around. Sanchez has a better curve hands down.

[Laika]

The comparison isn't Sanchez' curve vs. Stroman's, it's Sanchez' curve vs. Stroman's slider.

 

I think Stroman's biting slider has more utility than Sanchez' curve. It's easier to command, for one thing, and I feel like the slider is just a better pitch in general. You can use it in more situations. With the curve, you can try to freeze a guy with it or have it finish out of the zone and induce a swinging strike. With the slider, you can backdoor it more effectively, you can try for whiffs both down and away (in to lefties), and you can also throw it in the zone looking for weak contact.

 

Stroman sets up his secondary pitch much better too, with far superior command and control of his fastball, but that's another matter.

[Angrioter]

The comparison isn't Sanchez' curve vs. Stroman's, it's Sanchez' curve vs. Stroman's slider.

 

I think Stroman's biting slider has more utility than Sanchez' curve. It's easier to command, for one thing, and I feel like the slider is just a better pitch in general. You can use it in more situations. With the curve, you can try to freeze a guy with it or have it finish out of the zone and induce a swinging strike. With the slider, you can backdoor it more effectively, you can try for whiffs both down and away (in to lefties), and you can also throw it in the zone looking for weak contact.

 

Stroman sets up his secondary pitch much better too, with far superior command and control of his fastball, but that's another matter.

 

Cause and effect.

 

The slider is better pitch than the curveball, regardless of the actors (Stro and Sanchize)

[RIPEXPOS]

Bottom line is we have 2 young stud pitching prospects who are now in the majors.

[spats]

Be glad we have both of them. I don't care who has the better stuff.

[Laika]

I really like the blend on Stroman's repertoire. When a guy throws a cutter, a slider, and a curveball, I think it probably f***s with the capability of the batter to pick up the spin and time the specific pitches.

 

If you can throw a 2 seamer, a change, a 4 seamer, cutter, slider, curve, then you've got an entire spectrum of pitches. A rainbow of speeds and breaks. You can ROYGBIV guys to death.

 

If you throw only three pitches, a FB, curve, and change, then you have very segregated offerings. It might be easier for hitters to pick up those pitches earlier.

 

Of course, having less pitches might mean mastering those specific pitches better.

[Iluvbjs]

Actually, you might have a really good point.

 

Sabermetrically speaking there is a lot of focus on SwStr%. I don't think a lot of people have ever paid much attention to called strike % with breaking balls, but it might, just maybe, be a significant thing.

 

If you've ever played baseball you definitely know that feeling when you think a curve might plunk you in the elbow or the belt, and it drops in for a strike down the pipe. On the contrary though, that type of pitch would also induce a lot of swings and misses if you started it in the zone, so statistically speaking the easier (better) thing to look at would probably be SwStr%. Called strikes as we've described could have real significance from a scouting perspective though, since scouting occurs in small sample sizes.

 

I feel like a lot of called strike % with breaking balls (or any pitches) would be sequencing though, so it would be hard to delineate raw pitch quality vs. sequencing. For instance, Bark Muehrle gets a lot of called strikes with 40/50 grade stuff.

 

That's true dude, but if you look at guys like Darvish for example, he get a lot of outs with that breaking ball because he locates his fastball well when he's on. It's rare to see a curveball that kinda looks like a wiffle ball. That's why I made the comment with Kershaw because he has that exact same kind of curve that drops so fast and hard it looks like it's falling off a table. It freezes guys cos they either think there's no way it's going to be a strike, or they completely flinch and freeze up. The more you induce guys to swing, the more likely they are to make contact and if you hang one, you speed up their bat to the point where it's just a complete ball mash.

 

Guys like Blyleven made a career out of freezing guys and buckling their knees with strike 3. The difference with a guy like Buehrle though is that sanchez has that free and easy 97 mph heater that also moves. Also, Stro's curveball is more of a 12-6 curve where sanchez has that 2-8 tilt to lefties which causes them to give up on it a lot and will buckle the knees of righties a lot because they get that instantaneous fear of getting hit by a 98 mph fastball. That 12- 6 curve usually only fools hitters when they're either guessing fastball or the movemnt is really good. Sanchez's curve and his extra fastball velocity and movement will almost automatically induce more called strike 3's and weaker cuts. You see the cut that guy takes at that pitch where buddy is trying to use it as some kind of example of how good his curve is I guess? The cut that guy takes PROVES my point, he just happens to swing and miss because STRO gets it down. When he doesn't, it is MUCH more likely to get hit hard than the type of curve Sanchez throws

 

I know from experience that when a guy has enough fastball to embarass you, that tilted curve will beat you more often than not, even when you think it might be coming. The chances of squaring it up are much less than that traditional 12-6 curve. That tilted curve, even when it gets hit, will result in more rolled over ground balls to pull hitters as well. You have to hang it belt high with mediocre movement for it to get hammered and the scouting report on this kid is that he consistenlt keeps it located extremely well. But the thing is and ALWAYS has been that if you can't locate or establish your fastball, your secondary pitches don't matter. Maddux was a f***ing BEAST and master at locating his fastball, then inducing weak ground ball after ground ball with his secondary pitches and he never threw much over 90, even early in his career. IF Sanchez learns to repeat his delivery and establish fastball command, his ceiling is about as high as it possibly goes because his curveball is an ABSOLUTE wipeout pitch. I only made that comparison to that ONE PITCH as far as Kershaw goes but in no way am I saying he's going to be another Kershaw or anything of the sort. But if he learns good command of his fastball, he can be as devastating as anyone in the game today. ESPECIALLY command on the inside half to right handed hitters. When you get a guy throwing at you at 98mph and you see that tilted curve coming, it's really f***ing hard, even for average MLB hitters, not to flinch or take weak swings at that 2-7 curve. A lot of the time, your first instinct is to back away because that velocity keeps hitters honest to say the least.

 

Sorry to be repetitive but if he learns inside command to righties, he going to be f***ing devastating. This kid just needs to learn how good his stuff actually is. I'd just f***ing love to see Halladay work with him.

[Muck Bartinez]

If you can throw a 2 seamer, a change, a 4 seamer, cutter, slider, curve, then you've got an entire spectrum of pitches. A rainbow of speeds and breaks. You can ROYGBIV guys to death.

 

You sir have won the internet this evening.

[saskjayfan]

Keith Law apparently hates what the Jays did with his delivery. His opinion means something. There is a number one pitcher somewhere in that guy. Not sure if the Jays will be able to bring it out of him.

 

keith law's opinion means nothing, and they made some changes the last month that I doubt law has even seen. In the minors you're making changes and working on stuff all the time. Law is a writer, he worked in the blue jays front office.

 

I missed the game and just finished watching the game. You can't read too much into 2 innings, but come on the guys can do things as a pitcher that most blue jays pitchers can't. He will likely have bad games, he's a young player. As far as mechanics, there a million different wacky deliveries in baseball that are successful. I'm certainly no expert in mechanics, but I could see with my own eyes what the pitches were doing tonight. I can't believe some of you wanted to give Sanchez away for nothing. The kid will have some rocky times, but he's definitely got a chance to be a very good pitcher.

[Laika]

That's true dude, but if you look at guys like Darvish for example, he get a lot of outs with that breaking ball because he locates his fastball well when he's on. It's rare to see a curveball that kinda looks like a wiffle ball. That's why I made the comment with Kershaw because he has that exact same kind of curve that drops so fast and hard it looks like it's falling off a table. It freezes guys cos they either think there's no way it's going to be a strike, or they completely flinch and freeze up. The more you induce guys to swing, the more likely they are to make contact and if you hang one, you speed up their bat to the point where it's just a complete ball mash.

 

Guys like Blyleven made a career out of freezing guys and buckling their knees with strike 3. The difference with a guy like Buehrle though is that sanchez has that free and easy 97 mph heater that also moves. Also, Stro's curveball is more of a 12-6 curve where sanchez has that 2-8 tilt to lefties which causes them to give up on it a lot and will buckle the knees of righties a lot because they get that instantaneous fear of getting hit by a 98 mph fastball. That 12- 6 curve usually only fools hitters when they're either guessing fastball or the movemnt is really good. Sanchez's curve and his extra fastball velocity and movement will almost automatically induce more called strike 3's and weaker cuts. You see the cut that guy takes at that pitch where buddy is trying to use it as some kind of example of how good his curve is I guess? The cut that guy takes PROVES my point, he just happens to swing and miss because STRO gets it down. When he doesn't, it is MUCH more likely to get hit hard than the type of curve Sanchez throws

 

I know from experience that when a guy has enough fastball to embarass you, that tilted curve will beat you more often than not, even when you think it might be coming. The chances of squaring it up are much less than that traditional 12-6 curve. That tilted curve, even when it gets hit, will result in more rolled over ground balls to pull hitters as well. You have to hang it belt high with mediocre movement for it to get hammered and the scouting report on this kid is that he consistenlt keeps it located extremely well. But the thing is and ALWAYS has been that if you can't locate or establish your fastball, your secondary pitches don't matter. Maddux was a f***ing BEAST and master at locating his fastball, then inducing weak ground ball after ground ball with his secondary pitches and he never threw much over 90, even early in his career. IF Sanchez learns to repeat his delivery and establish fastball command, his ceiling is about as high as it possibly goes because his curveball is an ABSOLUTE wipeout pitch. I only made that comparison to that ONE PITCH as far as Kershaw goes but in no way am I saying he's going to be another Kershaw or anything of the sort. But if he learns good command of his fastball, he can be as devastating as anyone in the game today. ESPECIALLY command on the inside half to right handed hitters. When you get a guy throwing at you at 98mph and you see that tilted curve coming, it's really f***ing hard, even for average MLB hitters, not to flinch or take weak swings at that 2-7 curve. A lot of the time, your first instinct is to back away because that velocity keeps hitters honest to say the least.

 

Sorry to be repetitive but if he learns inside command to righties, he going to be f***ing devastating. This kid just needs to learn how good his stuff actually is. I'd just f***ing love to see Halladay work with him.

 

FWIW I think a lot of your scouty / experiential stuff here is spot on.