Anyone else upset that we gave Jesse Chavez away for cash?

[AdamGreenwood]

We decided he wasn't any good after 21.1 innings.

During that time, he posted an xFIP of 3.9 and was pitching under the pressure of 'succeed or it's back to AAA'.

 

This year, with the A's he's had three great starts with:

 

ERA of 1.35

WHIP of 0.85

FIP of 2.53

xFIP of 2.30

 

22 strikeouts

2 walks

0.7 WAR (that's already worth about 5 million, which is likely about 25 times more than we received for him.

 

Were we honestly, so stocked with great pitchers that we couldn't have found a way to keep this guy around?

[NorthOf49]

Yes, actually. I was disappointed at the time.

 

Here's the thread from the trade (admittedly short): http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=messages&webtag=ml-bluejays&tid=85818

[Caper]

We decided he wasn't any good after 21.1 innings.

During that time, he posted an xFIP of 3.9 and was pitching under the pressure of 'succeed or it's back to AAA'.

 

This year, with the A's he's had three great starts with:

 

ERA of 1.35

WHIP of 0.85

FIP of 2.53

xFIP of 2.30

 

22 strikeouts

2 walks

0.7 WAR (that's already worth about 5 million, which is likely about 25 times more than we received for him.

 

Were we honestly, so stocked with great pitchers that we couldn't have found a way to keep this guy around?

 

 

 

Ha... I remember people saying he was the best shitbaler we had.

[mitchf]

I do remember Greenwood being very pro Chavez, kudos.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Guy had a horrid MLB track record and wasn't that young.

 

Nobody saw this coming. Clearly unsustainable though.

[HERPDERP]

No, I'm not an armchair GM like some people.

 

Chavez was good enough to be on an MLB roster, but more as a mop-up and the 25th man.

 

Nobody expected him to pitch this well (in only 3 starts).

 

But I bet no one expects you to also make the proclaimation that Ryan Goins will end up as a 3-war player, Justin Jackson ends up being a mid-rotation starter and angrioter being hired as the Dominican pro scout for the Tampa Bay Rays.

[Atothe]

[TABLE=width: 195]

[TR]

[TD=width: 65]Season[/TD]

[TD=width: 65]xFIP-[/TD]

[TD=width: 65]SIERA-[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2008[/TD]

[TD=align: right]97[/TD]

[TD=class: xl63, align: right]92[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2009[/TD]

[TD=align: right]104[/TD]

[TD=class: xl63, align: right]97[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2010[/TD]

[TD=align: right]116[/TD]

[TD=class: xl63, align: right]104[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2011[/TD]

[TD=align: right]100[/TD]

[TD=class: xl63, align: right]94[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2012[/TD]

[TD=align: right]96[/TD]

[TD=class: xl63, align: right]85[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2013[/TD]

[TD=align: right]97[/TD]

[TD=class: xl63, align: right]85[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2014[/TD]

[TD=align: right]60[/TD]

[TD=class: xl63, align: right]59[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

SIERA thought he was always decent.

 

Right so let's say he benefits from pitching in Oakland a fair amount. Is it fair to assume he's a bit over his head and he wouldn't be nearly as successful here?

[Atothe]

It'd be exactly the same (park factors).

 

Fair enough. Do your projections have him providing more value then Happy?

[KingKat]

Yes, actually. I was disappointed at the time.

 

Here's the thread from the trade (admittedly short): http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=messages&webtag=ml-bluejays&tid=85818

 

I can't find it anymore but there was a much interesting thread about Chavez on the old board. It was either immediately in the wake of his first start or after he got demoted. In it, a lot of people were ranting against him but all this was based on the fact that he gave up a lot of homeruns. I believe I asked if it was premature to judge him on his homerun rate so soon. Nox answered that it was beyond absurd to be counting homerun rate that soon at a time where it wasn't close to stabilizing. He was having a really great minor league season that year. It was derpy as hell not to give him a longuer leash. It's the kind of thing that a team really deserves to have them bite them in the ass.

[AdamGreenwood]

Giving away Chavez for nothing, with the sorry excuse of our rotation and depth, and the positive peripheral indicators was inexcusable.

Granted, we're not the only team to give him up for nothing.

 

I remember saying that he could be our #4 or #5 starter, and could be better than guys like Drabek, and I was soundly mocked and laughed at.

[KingKat]

Giving away Chavez for nothing, with the sorry excuse of our rotation and depth, and the positive peripheral indicators was inexcusable.

Granted, we're not the only team to give him up for nothing.

 

I remember saying that he could be our #4 or #5 starter, and could be better than guys like Drabek, and I was soundly mocked and laughed at.

 

Boy who cried like a contrarian syndrome.

[GeorgiaPeach]

They have Chavez in relief, so no, if they had him starting it'd be similar.

 

Why would a projection system have Chavez in the 'pen?

Edited April 15, 2014 by GeorgiaPeach

[GeorgiaPeach]

Giving away Chavez for nothing, with the sorry excuse of our rotation and depth, and the positive peripheral indicators was inexcusable.

Granted, we're not the only team to give him up for nothing.

 

I remember saying that he could be our #4 or #5 starter, and could be better than guys like Drabek, and I was soundly mocked and laughed at.

 

Wow, you went out on a limb there.

[AdamGreenwood]

Here is the thread.

 

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ml-bluejays&tid=83075

 

All along, I said that he could be decent, if they helped him to relax, by not DFA'ing every pitcher who had a bad outing.

You can't run a ball team like a Greek restaurant, and fire everyone who screws up. Knowing that your continued existence on the team hinges on four at bats, or an inning of pitching, greatly increases the chance that the player is going to screw up because of nervousness.

[Convo]

Giving away Chavez for nothing, with the sorry excuse of our rotation and depth, and the positive peripheral indicators was inexcusable.

Granted, we're not the only team to give him up for nothing.

 

I remember saying that he could be our #4 or #5 starter, and could be better than guys like Drabek, and I was soundly mocked and laughed at.

 

Clearly this a 3 start fluke and you will still end up being mocked and laughed at.

 

-Or-

 

The A's fixed a flaw or deficiency in his delivery and he's turned into Roy Halladay.

[AdamGreenwood]

He was always decent, but needed a bit of breathing room to relax.

He's gotten some luck so far, and won't continue to perform at this rate, but I think he will likely to continue to perform at a #4 starter.

 

I'm willing to bet anyone $20 that he finishes with 3 fWAR or greater.

[jays76]

Hindsight is always 20/20 and it's a little too soon to fairly assess if Jesse Chavez has turned the corner. I mean it's 3 games people, I liked him and was rooting for him when he was here but he continually disappointed and buckled under the pressure. With the exception of Rogers our current pen is great so the impact of letting him go if he turns out to be decent is minimal (and that's a very big IF). If you want to start a complaint thread you should start discussing the trade of super utility man Yan Gomes for that gas can Esmil Rogers who I'm betting will keep going through spells of implosion without ever converting on his potential..

[The Cats Ass]

We can't hold on to every player.

[KingKat]

We can't hold on to every player.

 

Nope. The shame was it not giving him a proper audition when there was a chance. Some extreme bad luck with flyballs in the majors and a great AAA season gets dismissed as if it's nothing.

[flafson]

He was alright but we had plenty of people who were alright. Besides, i don't think he could make Rogers center his home while it might work out for him with the A's.

I am upset about Yan Gomes though because he was alright and shipped for almost nothing after half a season of not being played or being played everywhere on the field.

[jaysblue]

It's only 3 starts.

[jaysblue]

Nope. The shame was it not giving him a proper audition when there was a chance. Some extreme bad luck with flyballs in the majors and a great AAA season gets dismissed as if it's nothing.

 

If AA said he was giving Jesse Chavez a rotation spot, this whole board would have freaked.

[jaysblue]

I see Chavez burning out at some point - there is no way he can sustain this type of success. I expect a Chad Gaudin 2007 type season from him when all is said and done if he spends the entire season in the rotation.

[jaysblue]

What do you look at when you say this?

 

He was never successful as a starter in the Majors, so what makes you think he'd all of a sudden have success pitching with Toronto as a starter? I've always liked him as a reliever, though giving him a rotation spot would have been absurd. Members on here would have even bashed AA more. I don't see him sustaining this success over a full season.

[jaysblue]

Also, Chavez likely doesn't pitch this season out of the rotation if not for injuries to Parker and Griffin this spring.

[TheHurl]

We can't hold on to every player.

 

sure can't...got to hold those injured relievers who can go on to the 60 day though

[TheHurl]

It's only 3 starts.

 

and if Hutch had those same three starts how would this board be reacting? There would be CY talk. I'd also like to add that 14 of his 20 innings were not in Oakland this season and his numbers were horrible in Oakland last year and much better on the road.

[jaysblue]

and if Hutch had those same three starts how would this board be reacting? There would be CY talk. I'd also like to add that 14 of his 20 innings were not in Oakland this season and his numbers were horrible in Oakland last year and much better on the road.

 

Two starts against Minnesota and Seattle - not the deepest lineups in baseball. I'll give him the Angels, though they were without Hamilton and outside of Trout and Pujols, the rest of their lineup is nothing to fear.

[Dick_Pole]

The Jays, just like any other team will have a whole list of players in which they regret giving up, and will have a whole list of players that they got for a song.

 

Unless there's an alternate universe where Chavez is pitching shutouts for the Jays, there's no way to know if he'd be any good here. Maybe Oakland had a coach that managed to get through to him, just like Bautista found the right mix here which he didn't find in his half dozen other organizations prior to that.

[KingKat]

If AA said he was giving Jesse Chavez a rotation spot, this whole board would have freaked.

 

Most of the old board was happy when he lost his rotation spot and I still maintain to this day that most of the board was wrong. Litterally all he did wrong was give up too many homeruns in a small sample size well below what was needed to consider it stabilized while the few stats that were significant at that point were all positive. It was by any objective measure a mistake regardless of majority opininion on the board. In fact I think part of the reason people were so harsh on Chavez is because Greenwood was defending him. No one took his opinion serioulsy even after Nox make the statistical argument that clearly supported his position.