Tanaka to Yankees, 7yrs/$155MM

[GeorgiaPeach]

And select injured players in the drafts.

Dyson, Stilson, Smoral, Murphy, Hollon, Nay......

 

And?

[GeorgiaPeach]

Read recently the NHL makes as much money on a per game basis as the MLB. They're not irrelevant.

 

The NHL is less relevant in NA than MLB and its not close.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Interestingly, the farm isn't in as bad a shape as you'd think it would be given last off season's trades and it could be back in the top 10 with continued good performances by some of the low minors guys and of course with 2 draft picks in June.

 

If the same regime is around when the farm rebounds, you'll see the same stupid trades, knocking the farm down a bunch for some over the hill expensive players. It's Beeston's MO that he jacks off to every night.

 

The Jays FO and fans like to think they're a major player in MLB, but they're a timid on the cusp mid/big player. A recipe for failure.

[JFD]

Jays never had a chance. Nobody wants to come to this s*** show.

[fatcowxlive]

It's great to see Selig making a great move as the Yankees GM! Shredding Arod's salary was a great idea!

 

It's good that AA held out this whole time this offseason. Pull the f***ing plug. No way we're matching the Yankees or Red Sox, this is mid 2000s baseball all over again.

[Orgfiller]

Giving 7 years @ $25M per to a Japanese free agent is a huge risk. Anybody who thinks we should have topped that is a whole other kind of idiot.

 

Hindsight is a beautiful thing, most of us weren't even content with the idea of paying Darvish (at the time of his posting) 20 million+/per, and he at least had reportedly better stuff. Obviously looking back it's easy to say that we should have given up more, but as things stand, it's never a sure thing to give out that much money to someone MLB unproven. I hate what the Yankees are doing yet again (signing everyone available), but that's the price you pay to play in this division.

[Orgfiller]

$175/7 = $25

 

The posting fee is a thing, and it's not a lump sum. Even if it were, $25M is the average annual cost of the contract.

 

It literally feels like Darvish all over, how people can ignore the posting fee is beyond me.

[Key22]

About a decade ago I read an article about "percentage" spent on team payroll. While the Yankees were outspending everyone else they were actually spending a lower percentage of revenue compared to the Blue Jays and most other teams in baseball. Their payroll was something like double Toronto's payroll but they took in something like 7 times the revenue/profit. Indeed, it was noted that the Yankees took in more money than the rest of the AL East teams COMBINED! Granted Tbay is small market and Baltimore is medium but still - the Jays, Sox, Rays, O's combined - indeed the article further stated the Yankees took in more revenue than the next 6 teams combined. IE, Mets, Angels, Dodgers etc.

 

Shi Davidi's article noting what JP Ricciardi had to say about New York being easily able to have a $300million payroll is very true. Except that was true back in 2000 - they could very easily have a $500 -$800 million per year today. He said it didn't matter if it was him or Joe Shmoe running the Jays - the teams that spend win the teams that don;t have to rely on outstanding management - TBAY has done a great job - but how many world series rings do they have again? Same with the A's - great GMs doing wonders with little money but winning is the only thing that counts here and neither have won jack squat. http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/jays-handcuffed-by-strategy-in-big-mans-division/

[GD]

It's great to see Selig making a great move as the Yankees GM! Shredding Arod's salary was a great idea!

 

It's good that AA held out this whole time this offseason. Pull the f***ing plug. No way we're matching the Yankees or Red Sox, this is mid 2000s baseball all over again.

 

Holy s***, Fatcow is alive.

[Olerud363]

I have no problem blaming AA for negotiating the trades he did, I said at the MLB board that I wouldn't have even traded D'Arnaud straight up for Dickey, but anyway.

 

Interestingly, the farm isn't in as bad a shape as you'd think it would be given last off season's trades and it could be back in the top 10 with continued good performances by some of the low minors guys and of course with 2 draft picks in June.

 

I'm one of the few who thinks he's best suited as an assistant GM and not a GM.

 

There is some OK talent at the lower levels. The problem is that the lower you go, the more unpredictable it is.

 

I remember May 2008 or so everyone was raving about the Jays talent in Lansing (Justin Jackson, Ahrens etc.). They didn't go anywhere and they were allready a level above this crop.

 

And even if they are great they are out of sync with the mlb talent. They will arrive just as everyone else is getting real old and/or leaving.

[KingKat]

Is that gate revenue only, or total? The NHL's revenue stream is typically more gate-driven than MLB. MLB, and other pro sports leagues, make their bank off TV/media revenue streams, which is why the NHL struggles in comparison.

 

Comparing MLB per game gate revenue to other leagues is a pretty easy way to undervalue MLB. MLB has the biggest schedule so a leagues that would only match their per game revenue would be well behind in overall revenue.

[KingKat]

Well, there are additional costs in staging these the extra games, so the extra games only matter insofar as you're pulling in gameday operating profits, which isn't necessarily the case for each team/league. The real differentiators here are non-gate revenues (for overall league health) and the league-wide sharing of this revenue (for team-specific health).

 

I would think the way Baseball operates with many consecutive games in the same location would offset at lot of the operating cost and keep the per game cost lower than other leagues but you're right that gate isn't even all that important anyways. It's just a bit of a pet peeve for me when people compare sports by per game popularity. The worst is when people compare the NFL to MLB and make conclusions about the popularity of the two sports based on per game ratings/gate/attendance while conveniently igoring the fact that the NFL only has a 16 game season while MLB has ten times as many.

[Dr. Dinger]

Except ARod is barely factored into their AAV calc for 2014 and they're over the threshold. And they've been over the threshold for every single season there's been a threshold.

 

From a practical budgeting perspective ... from a cost perspective ... if you are going to look beyond the contract itself and include incidentals, such as acquisition costs (e.g. non-contract posting fees), you need to account for expected large, related costs, such as the luxury tax. If you're going to add nearly $3M per year to the player's cost due to posting fees paid, then you can't ignore the luxury tax. And you may not choose to allocate the entire tax expense to his contract value, even though on a specifically-identified basis this year, his contract is, basically, solely responsible for the luxury tax, but you at least need to allocate the expected luxury tax hit to every player's contract cost, as a percentage of total contractually paid salaries, which would add $2-4M per year to his cost. That it is "fixed" is irrelevant as to whether it's expected.

 

If you're going to tack on these variable costs to Tanaka, then you also need to consider additional foreign revenues. Or you could cut the ******** and strictly consider the fixed cost, which is $25M per season.

[KingKat]

If you're going to tack on these variable costs to Tanaka, then you also need to consider additional foreign revenues. Or you could cut the ******** and strictly consider the fixed cost, which is $25M per season.

 

Isn't it established that there are no additonal foreign revenues when you sign a Japanese player?

[wilko]

I hope he flops like Kei Igawa.

[NorthOf49]

Isn't it established that there are no additonal foreign revenues when you sign a Japanese player?

Yep. Nothing tangible since you don't get money from merchandise sales or Japanese television broadcasts.

 

What you do get is an increase in global brand prestige. Who knows how much that's worth.

[Olerud363]

Rinse and Repeat....

 

"Full Count" is very interesting. Blair will come off as an idiot compared to some of the posters here... but the book is worth it for some inside tidbits.

 

For example when B.J. Ryan signed AA did everything he could to stop it... he gave JPR a book length report on the dangers of that signing... to no avail.

 

I think the Florida trade was the same kind of thing. AA was interested in Johnson and maybe Reyes and maybe even Boni and maybe making a trade if they could get these guys cheap.... but then it spiralled out of control when Beeston got involved (Track Team! Reyes! Bonificio! Wins!).

 

AA comes off as smart enough... heck even Gord Ash comes off as OK. But there's been 20 years of coorporate ********, not just one guy, but the whole Rogers crew. Godfrey getting involved when he shouldn't. Phil Lind popping his nose in once every couple years at the wrong time with the wrong ideas.

 

And to top it all off Ted Rogers (R.I.P. and with all due respect) is potrayed as knowing nothing about baseball... like not even knowing what a walk is (he says "why isn't that guy hustling after some guy walks"). They literally had to give him a script whenever he spoke publically. But the entire thing, above the GM level, seems like a circus.

[G-Snarls]

But the entire thing, above the GM level, seems like a circus.

 

This is exactly what we have all feared to be true

 

It's also the reason that I cut AA more slack than most on here do

 

As a fan I care more about the team than any one person. I think AA is a mostly good GM who has A) made some good moves made a few bad moves on his own C) been forced to make or not make moves that might have worked out better D) been the victim of some bad luck and E) up against barriers with free agents that he can't do much about right now (at least until/if this team gets a reputation as a winner agian)

Edited January 23, 2014 by G-Snarls

[fatcowxlive]

Holy s***, Fatcow is alive.

 

Exams are eating me alive

[NorthOf49]

Exams are eating me alive

Hey Cow, can you comment on your 2014 MPL intentions it that new OT thread?

[Olerud363]

Great Expectations explains that the Marlins trade was entirely AA's doing. This was talked about prior. Not sure where this lie about Beeston's involvement came from, but AA approached the Fish about Johnson, then mentioned Bonifacio ... and when it was clear the Fish wanted to expand the deal, AA himself drafted a larger deal involving Reyes and Buerhle, with a couple details left to bang out (like Mathis). He then took this huge deal to Beeston, because he needed the payroll room to make it happen. Beeston went along with it and asked the CEO for the increased payroll, which was granted. And that was Beeston's only role in the deal. He facilitated the payroll side of the baseball deal that AA himself came up with, and pushed for. That is all. AA then hammered out the finer details of the trade and that was that.

 

Not quite. AA did preliminary talks with the Marlins. He told Beeston he had "a chance to get Johnson, Buerhle and Reyes". Beeston almost shits himself. "No way are you getting all three!!!!". Beeston very excited about players he knows.

 

After telling Beeston and Nadir AA adds a caveat (this is according to Great Expectations, "the deal might not happen if the Marlins price is to high".

 

Then (all this after Beeston is pissing himself with excitement) AA and Benifest go through a series of offers and counter offers. All this time Beeston is putting pressure on AA to make the deal ("he'll kill you if it falls through).

 

The problem is that AA couldn't get into details about the trade until getting payroll permission. But once he got this it was hard to turn back because upper management was so excited they wouldn't want it to fall through over Mathis, or some other "minor" detail.

[KingKat]

The problem is that AA couldn't get into details about the trade until getting payroll permission. But once he got this it was hard to turn back because upper management was so excited they wouldn't want it to fall through over Mathis, or some other "minor" detail.

 

Well to be fair to management, no deal should be nixed because of Jeff Mathis. It's just a shame because even though it would have been completely for the wrong reason, walking away would have been totally worth it.

[KingKat]

To put that deal on anyone other than AA is beyond silly. If there was a Harvard case study in responsibility for a transaction, it would be this one, and AA would be the only holder of said responsibility.

 

Well done. The only thing you left out is that some of the legwork had already been done in anticipation of a possilbe Peavy trade. This meant that AA already knew a payroll bump could be approved and that probably emboldened him. As far as I know, the Peavy trade was also entirely his idea.

 

The thing that's frustrating is that the Team President should act as a voice of reason. He should be saying "You know, this could really back us into a corner." not "Entertainment! Track team!". Beaston thinks like an uninformed fan.

[Atothe]

I don't see the yankees doing anything of significance, they're old, no farm system to speak of and the redsox are still the best team in the divison. They're not better then the rays or rangers. Derek jeter is a thousand coming off two consecutive injury shorten seasons. They lost Arod for the year and Cano until at least 7 years. Tex is no longer a threat at the plate, Gardner's impact has to be less considering they will need to play soriano and old man ichiro. C.C is one pitch away from being retired ala roy halladay. Who in their bullpen besides Robertson is gonna pitch meaningful innings? I expect to be what they were last year 85-88 win team. Mediocre, kinda like the jays from 2006-2008

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

What people are saying about the Yankees is eerily similar to what everyone was saying about the Red Sox this time last year. They'll at very least make the playoffs, something this franchise hasn't done in 20 years.

[fatcowxlive]

Hey Cow, can you comment on your 2014 MPL intentions it that new OT thread?

Sure thing

[Olerud363]

No, you're completely mischaracterizing, and editorializing in an unreasonable manner.

 

AA did all the groundwork. He came up with the deal himself that involved getting all of JJ, Reyes and Buehrle. He mapped it out. There were only small details and rather insignificant portions left for the parties to haggle over.

 

He knew he didn't have authorization to add the payroll without an affirmative exception from the CEO, so he had to go through Beeston to get it, before finalizing the deal by banging out those tiny details.

 

Beeston was excited about it, and thus, agreed to take it to Nadir who, after meeting with the interested parties, agreed to give it the go ahead.

 

AA then worked out the finer details with NO further involvement from Beeston.

 

Quoting directly from "Great Expectations"

 

"On Saturday Nov 10th Anthopoulos was in the office along with Beeston for a conference call with Mohamed... (Mohammed) offerred his approval provided they felt the deal might make sense from a baseball perspective.

 

A caveat Anthopoulos added was that the deal might not happen if the Marlins price was too high. Internal discussion about which prospects the Blue Jays would be willing to surrender started almost immediately.

 

Once the Blue Jays had their house in order Anothopoulos engaged Beinfest in an intense series of offers and counteroffers."

 

 

You could be right. Maybe the trade was all AAs. But it is clear that AA asked Beeston for approval before deciding on the prospects going the other way.

 

I still can't help but think there are things we don't know. For example if Beinfest asked for Marisnick instead of Gose at the last minute would AA of backed out. Or would Beeston say "That's crazy to stop the trade while haggling over prospects."

[Olerud363]

Well done. The only thing you left out is that some of the legwork had already been done in anticipation of a possilbe Peavy trade. This meant that AA already knew a payroll bump could be approved and that probably emboldened him. As far as I know, the Peavy trade was also entirely his idea.

 

The thing that's frustrating is that the Team President should act as a voice of reason. He should be saying "You know, this could really back us into a corner." not "Entertainment! Track team!". Beaston thinks like an uninformed fan.

 

I agree on that point. That is where Boston and Toronto diverged last year. I think Boston upper management endorsed a strategy of acquiring using money only (not prospects). They went for older players (Napoli, Victorino, Drew) with injury risk. But the risk was mainly concentrated short term.

[Atothe]

What people are saying about the Yankees is eerily similar to what everyone was saying about the Red Sox this time last year. They'll at very least make the playoffs, something this franchise hasn't done in 20 years.

 

How is that, how much money do the red sox have committed to players over 30? Is their farm system barren? How many untradeable assets do they have?

[G-Snarls]

Keith Law today:

 

-

 

Johnny (Toronto)

 

Do you agree with the Blue Jays stance of limiting free-agent pitchers to a 5 year deal? I understand it as a general guideline, but the Jays are using it as a hard and fast rule, specifically in regards to Tanaka. Could it be an excuse from ownership to not spend money? "

 

Klaw (1:06 PM)

 

I agree with it. But it will mean they won't get any top-tier starter free agents.