Tanaka to Yankees, 7yrs/$155MM

[Abomination]

Between A-Rod and a million Japanese reporters, the Yankee spring training complex is going to be a zoo...

[TwistedLogic]

No, let me clarify. My point was that the Jays traded long-term assets for a bunch of guys on FA deals instead of just signing FA's. I can understand where you are coming from and why you are taking my post that way. However, I think Dickey is an important piece to the puzzle and didn't mean to exclude the NYM trade in my original post.

 

Except that Dickey still doesn't apply, even based on your new criteria. He's not a guy on an FA deal that you signed in place of another FA. Dickey's contract is far below market value for a pitcher of his caliber, especially the pitcher he was at the time of that contract. There was also no free agent that was comparable to him in terms of the value based on dollars spent. The Jays tried to sign Anibal Sanchez and extended him a 5 year offer, he told them he wanted seven years, and then went on to the sign with the Tigers for the same 5-year offer the Jays made.

[TwistedLogic]

I'm sure the Yankees didn't start the negotiation at $25m annually and if the Jays didn't go far in the discussions, I'm led to believe the length of contract had a lot to do with it.

 

I don't really care what someone is "led to believe", you have no information or specific details about the negotiation terms. All you know for a fact is that he signed for 7 years, 155M with a 20M posting bid, and it would be f***ing stupid to surpass that offer, for any team. That's all you need to know. It doesn't matter at what point the Jays dropped out, all that matters is that they did drop out, and for good reason.

[kgm1]

We are talking Tanaka but the discussion seems to have devolved into the age old "what is the problem with this franchise?" discussion.

 

I have no idea what good firing AA will do. People know how I feel about this. I've annoyed people enough so I won't mention the "two bit accountant"'s name but if you read "Full Count" by Jeff Blair it's very interesting.

 

Blair reminds us that Peter Hardy was president in the 80s and won baseball executive of the 80s. Peter Hardy was a visionary who built the team along with Gillick. Peter Hardy built from the ground up. Peter Hardy.

 

The "two bit accountant" only gained control in very late 1989. When it was allready built. He saw a few trades (Joe Carter!!! Wow RBIs!! Jack Morris!!! Brilliant!! Wins!!) but his "two bit accountant" mind never processed that the true strength was the incredible base of young players. Since there is a multi-year lag between cause and effect the "two bit accountant" really can't take credit for any Blue Jay team... oh until about 1994.

 

Since 1994 the "two bit accountant" is responsible for every season. Blair's book mentions that even while in the commisioners office the "two bit accoutant" was buddie's with Phil Lind, and had huge say in the direction and even sale of the team.

 

I get beat up all the time when I say blame Beeston and Rogers and not AA but no matter who you put in as GM they will want his head in a short time . They think they can do a better job . even thou they don't know the true facts . We have no idea how many Free Agents have spurned us in the last couple of years . Very few liked the gutting of the farm last year including me but I'm one who believe AA would not have done it without a push because It was too soon .

[GD]

No one gave Tanaka $25M per.

 

That's pretty pedantic. Not to Tanaka personally, but the value of the contract equates to a cost of 25 million dollars per year.

[John_Havok]

No one gave Tanaka $25M per.

 

Semantic arguments are awesome. It's costing the Yankees 175 million dollars over 7 years to have Tanaka.

[GD]

Semantic arguments are awesome. It's costing the Yankees 175 million dollars over 7 years to have Tanaka.

 

Beat you by a minute, lol.

[Angrioter]

NO Chapman, Puig, Darvish, Cespedes, Abreu, Tanaka, Guerreno, Balaguer, Soler, Ruy, Iwakuma, Kuroda, Ichiro, Matsui.

Yes Adeiny Hechevarria

[Smokey]

I don't really care what someone is "led to believe", you have no information or specific details about the negotiation terms. All you know for a fact is that he signed for 7 years, 155M with a 20M posting bid, and it would be f***ing stupid to surpass that offer, for any team. That's all you need to know. It doesn't matter at what point the Jays dropped out, all that matters is that they did drop out, and for good reason.

 

Sorry lady, didn't realize that you were on your rag... I'm just expressing my frustration with a stupid policy that according to the article posted, eliminated any chance of him signing here. In fact, I can't even recall the last time this team signed a FA pitcher to a ML contract (might have been Tomo Okha in 2007). That's a joke and you'd think that a team in this position would be too embarrassed to even bring up this type of policy publicly... but apparently you can do as you like when you have arguably the dumbest fan-base in the sport.

[John_Havok]

In fact, I can't even recall the last time this team signed a FA pitcher to a ML contract (might have been Tomo Okha in 2007)

 

You're correct, I pointed that out earlier in the offseason. It's atrocious.

[Smokey]

You're correct, I pointed that out earlier in the offseason. It's atrocious.

 

 

But all that matters is that the Jays dropped out and the inconvenient truths need to be swept under the rug.

[G-Snarls]

MLBTR:

 

The Cubs were the runner-up in the Tanaka sweepstakes, according to David Kaplan of CSN Chicago (Twitter link). Ultimately, the fact that they're not ready to win in 2014 ended their chances, he elaborates.

 

Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets that the Yankees separated themselves, but not by a wide margin. The Dodgers, Cubs, White Sox, Astros and Diamondbacks were all involved in the end. According to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com, all teams that participated in the second round of bidding had to come in above the six-year, $120MM level.

 

Bruce Levine of 670thescore.com reports that the seventh guaranteed year is what separated the Yankees from the rest of the pack (on Twitter). According to Kaplan (via Twitter), other factors "trumped the possibility of more money," including the influence of Ichiro Suzuki and Hiroki Kuroda and the attractiveness of playing for the game's highest-profile franchise.

 

The Dodgers wanted Tanaka, but drew a financial line, reports Steve Dilbeck of the Los Angeles Times. As Dilbeck explains, the team does have financial limitations that it intends to abide by. "We went as far as we thought we could go," said GM Ned Colletti.

[kgm1]

FAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWK!!!

 

Figures.......*sighs*

 

Well Jay . we knew they were going to go hard at him . the bad news is they signed a bunch of top free agents . The good news is they still have a bad farm system and a ton of money out for replacement level or slightly better old injury prone players .

 

Tanaka has issues too . Look at the way they use their pitchers , 160 pitches is the one playoff game and then comes in the next day for a save . Take it to the bank that there will be at least 1 injury year in that contract . If that turns out to be this year or next then he has a good year and opts out I will laugh hard .

[Olerud363]

I get beat up all the time when I say blame Beeston and Rogers and not AA but no matter who you put in as GM they will want his head in a short time . They think they can do a better job . even thou they don't know the true facts . We have no idea how many Free Agents have spurned us in the last couple of years . Very few liked the gutting of the farm last year including me but I'm one who believe AA would not have done it without a push because It was too soon .

 

I agree here 100%. It is funny that so many like to throw blame from the bottom up. More people blame Gibbons then AA, and more blame AA then upper management.

 

As Jeff Blair describes it Rogers has been operating on "3 year plans" since they bought the team. I think that might be why they have the limit on contract length. They reserve the right to change course completely if needed. At this point changing course to a younger team would probably be worth while. The problem is the cycle will just start again. Once the books look good and the farm looks good they'll gear up before you know it.

 

1. Cut salary/youth movement.

2. Profit.

3. Lose patience and too soon go all in with expensive but not quite good enough talent (Ryan, Overbay, Glaus, Burnette, Reyes, Buerhle, Dickey, Johnson, etc. etc. etc.)

4. Repeat

[ElNik2013]

Don't be offended, but I don't think it's rational to think that Tanaka would've chosen the Jays over the teams involved, even if they paid $10M more than the Yankees ended up paying.

 

It's also not clear to me that it's fair to criticize the Jays for not getting Darvish when the Rangers ended up outbidding the 2nd bidder by $20M.

 

Some keep pointing to Anibal Sanchez and how the Jays didn't sign him because he wanted 7 years, well, he signed for 5, so try again.

 

I do think it's fair to criticize them for the sudden and ill-timed change of direction. I don't think many would be up in arms if they had stuck to the plan they were executing reasonably well.

[ElNik2013]

I agree here 100%. It is funny that so many like to throw blame from the bottom up. More people blame Gibbons then AA, and more blame AA then upper management.

 

As Jeff Blair describes it Rogers has been operating on "3 year plans" since they bought the team. I think that might be why they have the limit on contract length. They reserve the right to change course completely if needed. At this point changing course to a younger team would probably be worth while. The problem is the cycle will just start again. Once the books look good and the farm looks good they'll gear up before you know it.

 

1. Cut salary/youth movement.

2. Profit.

3. Lose patience and too soon go all in with expensive but not quite good enough talent (Ryan, Overbay, Glaus, Burnette, Reyes, Buerhle, Dickey, Johnson, etc. etc. etc.)

4. Repeat

 

 

I agree as well. I think some here seem to think that all that stands between their favorite team being run like the Cards/Rays is AA being fired. The same people also salivate over Mozeliak/Friedman, but overlook DeWitt/Sternberg.

 

I agree with them in wanting the Jays to be run like those teams, but I'll start with a DeWitt/Sternberg as I believe you build from the top.

[Olerud363]

NO Chapman, Puig, Darvish, Cespedes, Abreu, Tanaka, Guerreno, Balaguer, Soler, Ruy, Iwakuma, Kuroda, Ichiro, Matsui.

Yes Adeiny Hechevarria

 

So what exactly do these super-scouts do all day?? In October 2009 AA started with the Roy Halladay trade chip and a great crop of international free agents upcoming during his tenure.

 

In 2013 the organization doesn't even have Adeiny, and basically Halladay and the money has turned into a couple of late 30s slop ballers and a 30 year old injury prone short stop.

[Dr. Dinger]

No one gave Tanaka $25M per.

 

What they gave him isn't relevant, $25M per is what they're paying to have him.

[Olerud363]

I agree as well. I think some here seem to think that all that stands between their favorite team being run like the Cards/Rays is AA being fired. The same people also salivate over Mozeliak/Friedman, but overlook DeWitt/Sternberg.

 

I agree with them in wanting the Jays to be run like those teams, but I'll start with a DeWitt/Sternberg as I believe you build from the top.

 

It's a long term culture problem with the organization. Men in suits are allowed to interfere. Godfrey was apparently just as bad. Gord Ash didn't want to resign Alex Gonzales but Godfrey did. Rumour has always been Godfrey signed Wells.

[Dr. Dinger]

$175/7 = $25

 

The posting fee is a thing, and it's not a lump sum. Even if it were, $25M is the average annual cost of the contract.

[DuckDuckGose]

Except that Dickey still doesn't apply, even based on your new criteria. He's not a guy on an FA deal that you signed in place of another FA. Dickey's contract is far below market value for a pitcher of his caliber, especially the pitcher he was at the time of that contract. There was also no free agent that was comparable to him in terms of the value based on dollars spent. The Jays tried to sign Anibal Sanchez and extended him a 5 year offer, he told them he wanted seven years, and then went on to the sign with the Tigers for the same 5-year offer the Jays made.

 

The Mets knew what Dickey would cost and they didn'tw ant to pay it. You can say it wasn't a FA deal but it was a market value contract. In terms of decent FA SP's there were tons last off-season; Dempster, Kuroda, Greinke, Iwakuma, Haren, Ejax, Lohse, and Anibal all beg to differ. The fact that AA paid up for Dickey like he was a sure-thing bonafide ace doesn't make the deal any better, in fact it makes it much worse.

[Dr. Dinger]

Tanaka doesn't ensure that they'll be over the luxury tax threshold. That's not dependent on his contract alone and could change at any time.

[DuckDuckGose]

Semantic arguments are awesome. It's costing the Yankees 175 million dollars over 7 years to have Tanaka.

 

He also puts them back in to the luxury tax range. In the end probably costs them north of $200M.

[kgm1]

I agree as well. I think some here seem to think that all that stands between their favorite team being run like the Cards/Rays is AA being fired. The same people also salivate over Mozeliak/Friedman, but overlook DeWitt/Sternberg.

 

I agree with them in wanting the Jays to be run like those teams, but I'll start with a DeWitt/Sternberg as I believe you build from the top.

 

Beeston and Rogers control the money and the direction . In Hindsight AA trades last year were s*** and I hated the change in direction but he got that from above .He still has to take the blame for the trades that were god awful .

 

Where I fault the fire AA guys is that he did build the farm and while he did a s*** job gutting it I do trust him to rebuild it which is what we will have to do after this years shot . Hell if the jays went full rebuild mode trading their top talent they would have the best farm system plus some good young pieces in the majors .

[DuckDuckGose]

Tanaka doesn't ensure that they'll be over the luxury tax threshold. That's not dependent on his contract alone and could change at any time.

 

The immediate implications on the tax means they are over though right?

[DuckDuckGose]

I don't think this is the case at all. I think everyone here who wants AA fired is in favour of a complete regime change from Beeston down.

 

Beeston should be the first to go.

[Dr. Dinger]

I'd rather Beeston left than AA. Beeston is the one who implemented the "5 year policy" and got us blacklisted from Boras clients.

[Dr. Dinger]

The immediate implications on the tax means they are over though right?

 

Presumably, but that's not on Tanaka. They could trade A-Rod to Tony Reagins and get back under, it's not a Tanaka fixed cost.

[kgm1]

Would've been nice to see him on the west coast.

 

I was really hoping his wife had more say and demanded he take the dodgers deal . not much call for a japanese speaking Briteny in New York .

[TheEndIsNigh]

Then stop following it.

 

I'll do what I want, thanks for caring though it's cute. baseball economics are a joke, guaranteed contracts, grossly overpaid, it's a sham. Huge imbalance in team spending power.