Sooooo why exactly did AA let Johnson walk ....

[Gorlak]

He has already tried to move Santos and you could argue all three of them have surplus value. They should move one of Janssen or Santos, but contenders don't like trading mlb ready talent. Unless the Jays sign a pitcher they need Happ as depth.

[Ziggyy108]

It's hard to take his budget concerns seriously when he's sitting on Happ, Santos, and Janssen for almost $15 million in 2014 salary.

 

hahahaha soooo true.

 

And picking up Lind's option as well.

[Angrioter]

He has already tried to move Santos and you could argue all three of them have surplus value. They should move one of Janssen or Santos, but contenders don't like trading mlb ready talent. Unless the Jays sign a pitcher they need Happ as depth.

 

Dickey

.........

Morrow

Buehrle

Hutchison

Stroman

Rogers

Redmond

Nolin

Drabek

McGowan

Jenkins

McGuire

Tepera

 

Looks deep for me.

[Gorlak]

If Happ is as overpriced as you say, then he can't be moved so it's a mute point. Moving Janssen and Santos for just salary relief would make the team worse in the short term. They should only be moved for MLB ready talent and that is hard to match up between contenders.

[Angrioter]

hahahaha soooo true.

 

And picking up Lind's option as well.

 

Lind 1.5-2 WinsAR bat. He can hit like a motherf***er against righties.

[Gorlak]

Dickey

.........

Morrow

Buehrle

Hutchison

Stroman

Rogers

Redmond

Nolin

Drabek

McGowan

Jenkins

McGuire

Tepera

 

Looks deep for me.

 

I disagree. Janssen and Santos are two of the Jays best three relievers.

[jays4life19]

If Happ is as overpriced as you say, then he can't be moved so it's a mute point. Moving Janssen and Santos for just salary relief would make the team worse in the short term. They should only be moved for MLB ready talent and that is hard to match up between contenders.

 

Happ would have value as a 4 or 5 for some teams. We just have so many back of the rotation arms that could fill his place for a fraction of the cost.

[Angrioter]

If Happ is as overpriced as you say, then he can't be moved so it's a mute point. Moving Janssen and Santos for just salary relief would make the team worse in the short term. They should only be moved for MLB ready talent and that is hard to match up between contenders.

 

Happ isn't overpriced. We have similar pitchers on a lower price; that money could be use in another area like 2B or..............Carlos Ruiz?

[Gorlak]

Janssen and Santos have value to other teams. Moving them makes the team better in pretty much any reasonable trade.

 

They do have value, But what would those teams offer the Jays that would make them better this season.

[Angrioter]

I disagree. Janssen and Santos are two of the Jays best three relievers.

 

 

Steamer

Janssen and Santos = 1,4 WinsAR

Dustin Ackley = 1,1 WinsAR

[Gorlak]

I'm sure if AA needs to clear payroll, Happ is on the short list, But I don't see the point in moving depth in the teams biggest weakness.

[Gorlak]

Free'd up money, which could be used on a player who would provide more than a reliever would.

 

They could be worth 3 wins combined next year, which will be hard to get with just the cash freed. If they can get Nick Franklin cool, but I don't think that's possible.

[Gorlak]

He may end up having to resort to those type of deals, But that is probably the contingency plan. The Jays are a decent starting staff away from contending, So I doubt AA wants to leave it up to a bunch of lottery picks.

[Gorlak]

Well I'm not about to speak glowingly of Happ, But all of the pitchers you mentioned come with huge caveats. Happ would be most likely to toss 150 decent innings in the group.

[Angrioter]

Angrioter's favourite GIFs:

 

1. Creepy Pedo Bear fondling himself

2. That "ninja" guy

3. Anything else Pedo Bear related

 

and.....................sexy affirmation

 

http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/5/85/331/85331547_smayl__zhopa_tryasetsya.gif

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

No they don't. Jeff Francis is every bit as good as Happ and just signed a minor league deal. A team that can't afford to pay a desperately-needed 2B or SP $10-15 million has absolutely no reason to tie $5+ million up on a 1-win 5th starter or $8 million on a couple of relievers. These are the luxuries you toss overboard to take a shot at a 3+ win starter or to make sure you aren't getting replacement-level production at 2B.

 

I don't really buy into the budget being that tight, but if it is there's fat that should have been cut to address issues of greater need.

 

I don't buy the "budget issues" either we are nowhere near the fiscal breaking point on this team. I just couldn't see JJ being a good fit given his recent injury history. Why we didn't put that money to use on a decent hitter or two is puzzling though. AA hasn't really been effective at all since June 2013, the trades he made I can live with because hindsight is nice and risks needed to be taken to win.

 

Only signing Tanaka or making some blockbuster trade with Seattle or Philadelphia can save the off season. Garza might appease some fans but I have a bad feeling about that guy in the AL East.

[ElNik2013]

Another thread that turns into a Happ-less discussion...very fitting for this off season.

[Sorrow]

It would be nice to see the Jays bring in someone like Matsuzaka or Hansen on a minor league deal. Hansen at one point was a serviceable starter, who knows if he'll ever figure it out. Dice-K wouldn't be a terrible depth signing. If it means ditching Happ and freeing up 5M I'm on board.

[ElNik2013]

I seem to remember reading a quote from AA that if a starter was acquired, one might/would be leaving.

[Abomination]

It would be nice to see the Jays bring in someone like Matsuzaka or Hansen on a minor league deal. Hansen at one point was a serviceable starter, who knows if he'll ever figure it out. Dice-K wouldn't be a terrible depth signing. If it means ditching Happ and freeing up 5M I'm on board.

 

Those guys are no better than the options we already have, and AAA staff should be full if not overloaded as is. There's really no reason for us to (for once). We can probably safely ditch Happ without any other additions.

[Boxcar]

You're going to get flamed, but your gripe is legit in this case IMO. JJ @ 1/14 is a better option than Santana/Jimenez at 4/60+ and a much better option than the status quo. At this point, not qualifying him looks like a mistake.

 

In a long list of other mistakes.

[Boxcar]

Garza might appease some fans but I have a bad feeling about that guy in the AL East.

 

Ugh.

[AdamGreenwood]

1) Johnson appears to be in decline.

2) JJ only got 8 million as a free agent. He's worth what the market will pay. Spending $14 million on a player worth $8 million is not good baseball.

3) We would not have gotten the draft pick. Even if he declined, some other team would still have to pick him up (and eat the compensation pick).

4) JJ really didn't want to be here. Nothing against the Jays, but when you have an atrocious year when you come to a new club, you want out if you're a free agent. That's just how it works.

He also wanted to rebuild vale by playing in a pitcher friendly park.

5) Giving JJ the QO would have kind of screwed him over if he really didn't want to play here.

6) It seems very unlikely that the extra $14 million to sign JJ is the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. Might as well save $14 million, and give the kids a chance.

 

The trade was atrocious. AA gambled on JJ and lost. Better to accept the sunk cost than to double down and amplify the mistake.

 

And to answer the question: would our team be better with another SP? Sure.

But could we find a better way to spend $14 million dollars? Very likely.

[jays_fever]

 

100% agree. I want all my free agent signings to have past AL east experience. If they pitched in Tampa for half their career thats even more of a plus

[GD]

Garza started out in the AL East.

 

Garza actually started out in the AL Central with the Twins.

[bendera3]

I feel like AA just underestimated how the price of pitching was going to skyrocket. looking back on it now $14 million doesn't seem horrible for someone with JJ potential.

[NorthOf49]

I feel like AA just underestimated how the price of pitching was going to skyrocket. looking back on it now $14 million doesn't seem horrible for someone with JJ potential.

No pitchers have signed for the skyrocketed price so I don't know if that's fair to say yet. AA said on PTS that the prices have fallen over the past two weeks and he expects that to continue. I still hold out hope for Jimenez on a reasonable

[Sammy225]

I feel like AA just underestimated how the price of pitching was going to skyrocket. looking back on it now $14 million doesn't seem horrible for someone with JJ potential.

 

To be honest I think a lot of people under estimated what the cost of pitchers would be. You look at what Vargas and even Phil Hughs got. I would not have guessed they would have got those kind of contracts. But I guess you got to anticipate that.

[Dr. Dinger]

You're going to get flamed, but your gripe is legit in this case IMO. JJ @ 1/14 is a better option than Santana/Jimenez at 4/60+ and a much better option than the status quo. At this point, not qualifying him looks like a mistake.

 

Weren't you against giving him a QO? I was always for it.

[z3r0s]

is JJ for 1 year at 14M that much more appealing than Ubaldo on a 56-60/4 deal? With the health concerns I'm not sure it is.

 

I know everyone is in favour of short contracts, but I think there is some appeal to having a guy locked up for a few years (just not like 7+). You can't always bank on being able to find replacements for guys on the open market, so if you can get a guy at the price you want, a few years on the contract can be a good thing.