Blue Jays targeting Iannetta

[KingKat]

Kendrick likely would cost the Jays Stroman or Sanchez, agreed.

 

More likely Stroman given than Sanchez isn't that close to the majors.

[GD]

Ianetta: -1.3 framing WAR/10000 + Steamer/600 = ~2.5 WAR with framing included

Conger: -0.001 framing WAR/10000 + Steamer/600 = ~3.2 WAR with framing included

Ramos: 1.8 framing WAR/10000 + Steamer/600 = ~5.6 WAR with framing included

 

Basically projecting full seasons from all these guys based on Fast's spreadsheet and Steamer. All pretty decent options. And Ramos is a bit more than decent lol. But obviously health is an issue with him.

[DuckDuckGose]

Rogers is a legit back end guy? I don't think so. He should be a bullpen piece only.

 

What?

 

Rogers swingman-s*** and Nolin hasn't MLB experience.

 

I see them as 6-8/swingman types, with potential to develop into 4/5 types. I'd trade either without thinking twice.

 

Ya, especially pitching in Angel Stadium I think they would both be good back end guys. I like what Esmil has done as a starter this year and I think he could stick going forward. On the Jays he would work best out of the BP as a swingman, hopefully other teams will see him as a starter. Move him for starter value instead of using him in a role with an almost identical replacement (Happ) and where he will produce less value. I'd move Happ/Rogers for Ianetta/Conger but, AA really should just utilize the FA market.

[Frenchsoup]

Ianetta: -1.3 framing WAR/10000 + Steamer/600 = ~2.5 WAR with framing included

Conger: -0.001 framing WAR/10000 + Steamer/600 = ~3.2 WAR with framing included

Ramos: 1.8 framing WAR/10000 + Steamer/600 = ~5.6 WAR with framing included

 

Basically projecting full seasons from all these guys based on Fast's spreadsheet and Steamer. All pretty decent options. And Ramos is a bit more than decent lol. But obviously health is an issue with him.

 

What are the numbers for the free agents out there? ie. ruiz, pierz, ellis

[Angrioter]

[Laika]

Ianetta: -1.3 framing WAR/10000 + Steamer/600 = ~2.5 WAR with framing included

Conger: -0.001 framing WAR/10000 + Steamer/600 = ~3.2 WAR with framing included

Ramos: 1.8 framing WAR/10000 + Steamer/600 = ~5.6 WAR with framing included

 

Basically projecting full seasons from all these guys based on Fast's spreadsheet and Steamer. All pretty decent options. And Ramos is a bit more than decent lol. But obviously health is an issue with him.

 

Aside from Posey or Santana (1B dippers), most catchers only get like ~500 PA's in a full healthy season. At a glance, Steamer also seems a bit high on both Conger and Ramos.

 

Conger has been worth 1.2 wins in 508 career PA. He definitely wouldn't project as above average. Steamer seems weird on him... I'm not sure what the Steamer inputs are though.

 

Not sure why you guys are even talking about Ramos though (haven't read this whole thread). He's not in the realm of possibilities here.

[GD]

What are the numbers for the free agents out there? ie. ruiz, pierz, ellis

 

Ruiz - ~4.0

Pier - ~3.7

Ellis?

[G-Snarls]

 

Oh this is excellent. Thanks for sharing. LOL.

[GD]

Aside from Posey or Santana (1B dippers), most catchers only get like ~500 PA's in a full healthy season.

 

Ah, my mistake. Sorry, I usually use 600. But those numbers are high regardless, a healthy season from those guys may be a bit unrealistic regardless.

[G-Snarls]

Not sure why you guys are even talking about Ramos though (haven't read this whole thread). He's not in the realm of possibilities here.

 

There was a rumour similar to this one about 1-2 weeks ago that AA had talked to the Nationals about Ramos

[Laika]

a healthy season from those guys may be a bit unrealistic regardless.

 

Definitely. You'd probably use ~400 PA or so in a more realistic / sober projection.

[G-Snarls]

I'd prefer Conger to be honest since he's younger and cheaper. I can see AA trading for one of those guys instead of attempting to sign a Ruiz or Salty. He hates free agency lol.

 

He's going to have to change that though

 

There are three complementary ways to put a team together:

 

Drafting

Trading

Free agent

 

You can't get by with just one of the above, it's just not possible to assemble a 90 win team that way

 

If your farm isn't producing, you can't rely purely on trade. You need to use the free agent market for a few players or else you'll always have holes.

[GD]

Definitely. You'd probably use ~400 PA or so in a more realistic / sober projection.

 

Yeah, that was an "I-have-s***-to-do-so-I'll-throw-up-a-rough-projection" kind of thing.

 

Iannetta would probably be worth about 1.5 WAR/400 with framing.

 

Conger, 2.2 wins or so.

 

Ramos, 4 wins on the dot (rounded).

 

Those seem about right.

[G-Snarls]

Faaawk......sign Ruiz.

 

Yep. 3 year deal. And see how Jiminez looks after year 2.

[Caper]

If I were the Tigers I would be dangling Max Scherzer in front of the Jays. Package him with Prince Fielder, to get rid of what is going to be a disastrous contract in about a year. Get 3 bullpen pieces back, Bautista and maybe a prospect like Stroman. Then the tigers have the option of going after a real 3rd baseman.

[Abomination]

If I were the Tigers I would be dangling Max Scherzer in front of the Jays. Package him with Prince Fielder, to get rid of what is going to be a disastrous contract in about a year. Get 3 bullpen pieces back, Bautista and maybe a prospect like Stroman. Then the tigers have the option of going after a real 3rd baseman.

 

Why the hell would the Jays do that?

[ElNik2013]

Why the hell would the Jays do that?

 

 

To sell tickets.

[GD]

If I were the Tigers I would be dangling Max Scherzer in front of the Jays. Package him with Prince Fielder

 

This is actually an intriguing idea.

[Abomination]

To sell tickets.

 

Then they should sign Halladay at a hell of a lot less cost, rather than give up THAT much for 1 year of Scherzer and a horrifically bad contract in Fielder.

[KingKat]

Matt Klaasen has a piece on AA's interest in the Angels's catchers.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/iannetta-conger-and-the-end-of-the-arencibia-era/

 

Iannetta just seems like a bad idea to me. Conger is clearly the better fit because the Jays could really use a better pitch framer to help the pitching staff but he's probably the one the Angels would prefer to keep (assuming they're not planning to keep both). Overall, it all seems like a recipe for overpayment. Iannetta is basically a less sucky JPA and the difference probably isn't worth the cost to get him and Conger will probably cost a ton.

[Abomination]

Matt Klaasen has a piece on AA's interest in the Angels's catchers.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/iannetta-conger-and-the-end-of-the-arencibia-era/

 

Iannetta just seems like a bad idea to me. Conger is clearly the better fit because the Jays could really use a better pitch framer to help the pitching staff but he's probably the one the Angels would prefer to keep (assuming they're not planning to keep both). Overall, it all seems like a recipe for overpayment. Iannetta is basically a less sucky JPA and the difference probably isn't worth the cost to get him and Conger will probably cost a ton.

 

It likely doesn't matter anyway, since nothing true ever seems to leak since AA took over. He's probably inquired about every single catcher in the league.

[GD]

Just an idea, but if we were targeting some Angels players, maybe taking on a large contract like Hamilton or Weaver could be beneficial for both teams if they sent some cash along? Haven't given it much thought, just a random idea that popped into my head.

[Howard Roark]

Just an idea, but if we were targeting some Angels players, maybe taking on a large contract like Hamilton or Weaver could be beneficial for both teams if they sent some cash along? Haven't given it much thought, just a random idea that popped into my head.

 

"Random idea that just popped into your head"? You mean Caper's idea from the previous page regarding Scherzer/Fielder that you agreed with?

 

Come on man.........

[connorp]

"Random idea that just popped into your head"? You mean Caper's idea from the previous page regarding Scherzer/Fielder that you agreed with?

 

Come on man.........

 

Fielder's contract is definitely too long and bloated.. I wouldnt want to Jays taking it on.. but I think people are wrong that he's more likely to regress than the average player. I think it's the opposite. I would be more worried about the guys that rely on their athleticism and testosterone levels from their 20's. It's doubtful Fielder will get any more fat and he will prob keep his elite raw power for years to come. Sure he will be a defensive liability but he will prob have an Ortiz like career. He wont ever match Ortiz's monster years in mid-2000's but they were most likely steroid fueled.

[Howard Roark]

Fielder's contract is definitely too long and bloated.. I wouldnt want to Jays taking it on.. but I think people are wrong that he's more likely to regress than the average player. I think it's the opposite. I would be more worried about the guys that rely on their athleticism and testosterone levels from their 20's. It's doubtful Fielder will get any more fat and he will prob keep his elite raw power for years to come. Sure he will be a defensive liability but he will prob have an Ortiz like career. He wont ever match Ortiz's monster years in mid-2000's but they were most likely steroid fueled.

 

The most amazing thing to me about his career thus far is how injury-free he's been. For a colossal fatass he sure is durable.

 

The power did disappear this year though, although to be fair we're in a deadball era now. 30 is the new 40 when it comes to teh dingerz.

[G-Snarls]

Just an idea, but if we were targeting some Angels players, maybe taking on a large contract like Hamilton or Weaver could be beneficial for both teams if they sent some cash along? Haven't given it much thought, just a random idea that popped into my head.

 

Please remove thought from head

 

Lest we get stuck with a 45 year old Pujols some day

[G-Snarls]

Just an idea, but if we were targeting some Angels players, maybe taking on a large contract like Hamilton or Weaver could be beneficial for both teams if they sent some cash along? Haven't given it much thought, just a random idea that popped into my head.

 

Joking aside, if the Jays had more financial flexibility they could consider this. But there is too much wasted $$ on the payroll now to pull a Dodgers 2012 style deal.

[jays_fever]

Joking aside, if the Jays had more financial flexibility they could consider this. But there is too much wasted $$ on the payroll now to pull a Dodgers 2012 style deal.

 

I wouldnt touch Hamilton or Weaver with a 10 foot pole. Kendrick is the only position player that would make sense for both sides

[Atothe]

I wouldnt touch Hamilton or Weaver with a 10 foot pole. Kendrick is the only position player that would make sense for both sides

 

I would rather target cole kalhoun

[Angrioter]

I would rather target cole kalhoun

 

Moises Sierra = s*** > cole kalhoun