Davidi: Payroll will be at least $140 M next year

[Terminator]

Ryan is a black hole. He hits worse than a lot of pitchers. Molina isn't much better. Lawrie as your 6th batter is bad. Gose can't even hit AAA pitching this year.

 

That said, the defense is much improved so the team is better but that lineup is very bad.

[GD]

Ryan is a black hole. He hits worse than a lot of pitchers. Molina isn't much better. Lawrie as your 6th batter is bad. Gose can't even hit AAA pitching this year.

 

That said, the defense is much improved so the team is better but that lineup is very bad.

 

Molina is an improvement on Arencibia (no I'm not joking f*** you Arencibia). Ryan is just bad. Lawrie is looking excellent and I'm high on him as usual. Gose is a question mark. But with an epic defense at a low cost and probably one of the the best 1-5s in baseball, I don't think it matters that much.

[Terminator]

Well just because you have a solid 1-5 doesn't mean your 6-9 hitters don't matter as long as they play good defense. That said, I get were you were going and it would be an interesting team. I enjoyed the strategy you were working with.

[Angrioter]

Well just because you have a solid 1-5 doesn't mean your 6-9 hitters don't matter as long as they play good defense. That said, I get were you were going and it would be an interesting team. I enjoyed the strategy you were working with.

 

Balance is the key.

 

Lawrie + Gose + Ryan + Molina = s***

[GeorgiaPeach]

Anybody want to armchair GM?

 

You're given the following and and payroll max of $145 million. What do you do?

 

C - Arencibia (arb1)

1B - Encarnacion (9)

2B - Izturis (3)

3B - Lawrie (nm)

SS - Reyes (16)

LF - Melky (8)

CF - Rasmus (arb3)

RF - Bautista (14)

DH - Lind (7 - 2 buyout)

 

BN - Thole (1.25)

BN - Bonifacio (arb2)

 

SP - Dickey (12)

SP - Morrow (8)

SP - Buehrle (18)

SP - Happ (5.2)

SP - Romero (7.5)

SP - Hutchison (nm)

 

BP - Janssen (4 - team option)

BP - Santos (3.75)

BP - McGowan (1.5)

BP - Rogers (arb1)

BP - Cecil (arb1)

BP - Lincoln (arb1)

BP - Delabar (nm)

BP - Loup (nm)

 

Total = $118.2 (with Lind) + arb cases (JPA, Rasmus, Boni, Rogers, Cecil, Lincoln) + nm guys (Lawrie, Gose, Hutchison, Lincoln, Loup, Delabar) = ~140 million (with Lind).

 

Free agents = Johnson, Oliver, Davis, DeRosa

 

Holes = C, 2B, LF, SP1, SP2

 

- Obviously you trade/non-tender Boni. Possibly also Lincoln. That gives you about 9 to work with. Id probably also give Santos away free to any takers.

- Buying out Lind saves you 5, but then you don't have a 1B/DH.

- Johnson pretty much has to be allowed to walk. It will probably be a bad call, but we really can't afford him.

- Janssen absolutely must be traded, along with other parts, for someone who can fill a position of need. Santos

 

Its kind of a mess and some guesses with uncertainty, but pick away.

 

 

C - Jimenez (LG MIN) (Arencibia traded, see below)

1B - Allen Craig (2.75) (Encarnacion & Bautista traded for Allen Craig, Trevor Rosenthal, Kolten Wong & Carson Kelly)

2B - Kolten Wong (LG MIN)

3B - Lawrie (nm)

SS - Reyes (16)

LF - Rasmus (arb 3) (Melky traded for ?)

CF - Gose (MIN)

RF - Choo (6/100)

DH (1B) -Morales (Lind bought out)

 

BN© - Thole (1.25)

BN(IF) - Kawasaki (MIN)

BN-(IF) -Izturis (3)

BN-(OF/DH) Pillar

 

SP#1 - Dickey (12)

SP#2 - Morrow (8)

SP#3 - Buehrle (18)

SP#4 - Rosenthal (LG MIN)

SP#5 - Hutchison

 

SP#6 Happ

SP#7 Romero (7.5)

SP#8 Stroman

 

CL - Santos (3.75)

BP - McGowan (1.5)

BP - Rogers (arb1)

BP - Cecil (arb1)

BP - Lincoln (arb1)

BP - Delabar (nm)

BP - Loup (nm)

BP- Stilson

 

Total = less than projected with money spent elsewhere.

 

Arencibia traded to the Marlins for prospects SP-Adam Conley & RP-Scott McGough

Johnson- offer qualifying offer. If he accepts slot him in the rotation, if he rejects we get the pick

Bonifacio traded for ?

Janssen traded for ??? ......Stilson promoted. Santos to close, if he fails fallback to a committee until one is found

Oliver-trade before August 31,2013 deadline,

Davis-trade before August 31, 2013 deadline

DeRosa-trade before August 31, 2013 deadline

 

Holes = C, 2B, LF, SP1, SP2

 

*Jimenez defensively will be raw/rough edges but IMO as he gets more and more reps will short and long term be far better behind the plate than JPA.

*Wong's an upgrade over Izturis and is blocked in St.Louis by Carpenter. With Beltran a FA and Taveras more than likely getting the promo in 2014. Bautista would slide into Beltran's vacancy, Taveras into CF if the ankle is healed and Jay to 4th OF.

*Marlins currently brutal behind the plate with Brantly and Skipworth and Realmuto not really offensive contributors in any way.

*As for SP1 & SP2....difficult to get a 1, a 2 would be nice

Edited August 5, 2013 by GeorgiaPeach

[Frenchsoup]

That's a lot of money for choo, your also going to have a to give a draft pick that will be number 11 which is pretty much the worst case scenario.

[BarrysSyringe]

Its kind of a mess and some guesses with uncertainty, but pick away.

 

 

C - Jimenez (LG MIN) (Arencibia traded, see below)

1B - Allen Craig (2.75) (Encarnacion & Bautista traded for Allen Craig, Trevor Rosenthal, Kolten Wong & Carson Kelly)

2B - Kolten Wong (LG MIN)

3B - Lawrie (nm)

SS - Reyes (16)

LF - Rasmus (arb 3) (Melky traded for ?)

CF - Gose (MIN)

RF - Choo (6/100)

DH (1B) -Morales (Lind bought out)

 

BN© - Thole (1.25)

BN(IF) - Kawasaki (MIN)

BN-(IF) -Izturis (3)

BN-(OF/DH) Pillar

 

SP#1 - Dickey (12)

SP#2 - Morrow (8)

SP#3 - Buehrle (18)

SP#4 - Rosenthal (LG MIN)

SP#5 - Hutchison

 

SP#6 Happ

SP#7 Romero (7.5)

SP#8 Stroman

 

CL - Santos (3.75)

BP - McGowan (1.5)

BP - Rogers (arb1)

BP - Cecil (arb1)

BP - Lincoln (arb1)

BP - Delabar (nm)

BP - Loup (nm)

BP- Stilson

 

Total = less than projected with money spent elsewhere.

 

Arencibia traded to the Marlins for prospects SP-Adam Conley & RP-Scott McGough

Johnson- offer qualifying offer. If he accepts slot him in the rotation, if he rejects we get the pick

Bonifacio traded for ?

Janssen traded for ??? ......Stilson promoted. Santos to close, if he fails fallback to a committee until one is found

Oliver-trade before August 31,2013 deadline,

Davis-trade before August 31, 2013 deadline

DeRosa-trade before August 31, 2013 deadline

 

Holes = C, 2B, LF, SP1, SP2

 

*Jimenez defensively will be raw/rough edges but IMO as he gets more and more reps will short and long term be far better behind the plate than JPA.

*Wong's an upgrade over Izturis and is blocked in St.Louis by Carpenter. With Beltran a FA and Taveras more than likely getting the promo in 2014. Bautista would slide into Beltran's vacancy, Taveras into CF if the ankle is healed and Jay to 4th OF.

*Marlins currently brutal behind the plate with Brantly and Skipworth and Realmuto not really offensive contributors in any way.

*As for SP1 & SP2....difficult to get a 1, a 2 would be nice

Not going to lie, i actually like these moves but do the Cards actually do that deal? Craig is a straight up stud and with his controllability and youth, i could not see the cards moving him. And would you really take the risk of trying Rosenthal as a starter? Does he have the arm strength to throw 100 pitches every 5 days. He has an electric arm but i couldn't see it holding up. Not a fan of signing Choo due to the amount of money he will want and length of term.

[GD]

Its kind of a mess and some guesses with uncertainty, but pick away.

 

I gotta say, I really like this team, but it's quite far fetched. I don't think either team does the Craig deal. There's a slight lack of pitching depth but I would love having Rosenthal in the rotation and Wong at 2B. Just seems a bit far fetched.

[BarrysSyringe]

If I was GM:

-Bautista, Encarnacion, Janssen and Bonifacio to STL for Wong, Taveras, and Miller

-Trade Lind, Santos, Arencibia, and Dickey

-Sign Halladay (2 Years, 16 Mil, build arm strength with weighted ball program), Pence (3 Years, 36 Mil), Corey Hart (1 Year, 7 Mil)

 

C-Jimenez

1B-Hart

2B-Wong

3B-Lawrie

SS-Reyes

LF-Rasmus

CF-Taveras

RF-Pence

DH-Cabrera

 

BN-Thole ©

BN-Kawasaki (2B/SS)

BN-Izturis (INF)

BN-Pillar (OF)

 

SP 1-Miller

SP 2-Morrow

SP 3-Halladay

SP 4-Buehrle

SP 5-Hutchison

 

Extra SP: Happ, Drabek, Rogers

 

CL- Delabar

SU-Cecil

MRP-McGowan

MRP-Loup

MRP-Drabek

MRP-Rogers

MRP-Lincoln

LRP-Happ

 

Trading with STL makes us younger, strengthens our starting rotation and improves our team in the long run. It would definitely be a long shot but i would love to see it happen. Also, This offseason i would get every pitcher on the weighted ball program as could help cut down on the injuries by giving our pitchers better arm strength.

[Ehh]

Reyes

Bautista

Lind

Encarnacion

Rasmus

Lawrie

Gose

Ryan

Molina

 

That's actually a pretty decent lineup. Ryan and Molina can't hit for s***, but if Gose can get on base at all, as he did this year (.347 wOBA), he'll cause havoc on the base paths. Only a couple weak spots in there. Not to mention, our bench would be pretty productive. Moore, Thole, Izturis and Davis can all be quality hitters when used correctly

 

Your assuming Lind wont regress and that Lawrie and Gose can develop into servicable hitters. If not, 6-9 is terrible

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Everything would look so much better going into next year if Anthony Gose could actually hit and had a better attitude.. Defense would've been improved SO MUCH.

[BarrysSyringe]

Everything would look so much better going into next year if Anthony Gose could actually hit and had a better attitude.. Defense would've been improved SO MUCH.

He seems stubborn. He has one of the worst swings i have ever seen and i dont think the coaches are preaching a swing like that to him. He has had 3 years to fix it and it isn't working.

[Angrioter]

Well it's the same lineup we have this year but with even worse 7-9. If you think Izturis/Arencibia are bad wait till you see Ryan/Molina.

 

I'd definitely keep Reyes at SS, a lot of his value comes from his ability to play there.

 

 

Izturis/Molina > Izturis/JPA

-------------------------- = Molina > JPA

-------- Izturis

[fireballW]

One of the problems is the FO seems to have mistaken having confidence for people who act like douches. Shouldn't be any complaints on the board though, people here were super excited for our team adding more "swag," "mustard" and "personality." Hopefully the FO can figure out the difference between players who have confidence and people who are obnoxious a-holes. Tired of guys like Lawrie, Arencibia, Gose and even Bautista to an extent. There is no sign these guys will grow up with age, they are just tools.

[Terminator]

One of the problems is the FO seems to have mistaken having confidence for people who act like douches. Shouldn't be any complaints on the board though, people here were super excited for our team adding more "swag," "mustard" and "personality." Hopefully the FO can figure out the difference between players who have confidence and people who are obnoxious a-holes. Tired of guys like Lawrie, Arencibia, Gose and even Bautista to an extent. There is no sign these guys will grow up with age, they are just tools.

 

Who cares about their attitudes as long as they produce?

[Howard Roark]

They would male all the the plays.

 

 

I enjoyed this part the most.

[Terminator]

What about Jhonny Peralta at 2B? His metrics at SS have been good the past couple of years and he would likely come cheap off of his suspension.

[Howard Roark]

Haha.

 

lol

 

You edited yet still left the redundant "the" in there? ;-)

 

I know, I know, internet prose Nazi.

[Terminator]

That didn't workout really well with Melky.

 

But it did work out really well for the A's with Colon.

[GD]

I can't believe my idea to sign Ryan and Molina and move Reyes to 2B was stolen.

 

My fault for skimming, I apologize.

 

That didn't workout really well with Melky.

 

I think it'd work out better with Peralta, given that he's shown he can produce pre-roids (assuming he wasn't roiding in '05 and '08, even '11)

[jays_fever]

I can't believe my idea to sign Ryan and Molina and move Reyes to 2B was stolen. But whatever I'm glad other people are on board. I would also like to sign Choo and move Bau to 1B.

 

 

A lot of people here are a fan of Ryan. He should have been traded for as soon as Reyes went down.

[Abomination]

I honestly don't want to see Molina (not at this stage of his career), and Choo (while it would be nice) I don't see as necessary. I'm not entirely sure what I would do, but perhaps something along the lines of:

 

C: McCann (14M)

1B: Edwin (9M)

2B: Dozier / Wong (500k)

3B: Lawrie (500k)

SS: Reyes (16M)

LF: Rasmus (7M)

CF: Gose (500k)

RF: Bautista (14M)

DH: Melky (8M)

 

Bench: Thole, Kawasaki, Izturis, Pillar (combined 5.5M) Pillar is a righty, so he'd be a nice complement to Gose when needed.

 

SP: Halladay (10M) (if he comes back healthy and goes on Delabar program)

SP: Dickey (12M)

SP: Morrow (8M)

SP: Buehrle (18M)

SP: Romero (7.5M) (laugh all you like, but he seems to be getting it together and we're paying him either way).

 

RP: Janssen (4M)

RP: Delabar (500k)

RP: Cecil (2M)

RP: McGowan (1.5M)

RP: Santos (3.75M)

RP: Loup (500k)

RP: Wagner (500k)

 

Other: 2M Lind buyout

 

Total of about 145M

 

Trade JPA, Lind (if possible, buy out if not), Happ, Boni, Rogers, Lincoln.

 

Minor league starting depth in Stroman, Drabek, Hutch, Jenkins, etc

 

I dunno if Dozier or Wong are available or not, but hopefully one of them is (Minnesota does have a lot of infield depth getting pretty close). It might also be interesting to inquire about DeShields from Houston. He won't be ready next year, but could be blocked in Houston.

[Abomination]

That team has to many of the same problems as this years team. As much as I would like to bring Halladay back. They need to go out and get some starters that are younger and healthier. I'm not even going to begin to rely on Morrow anymore. Hes going to be hurt at some point. Rotation needs to be completely overhauled again. I don't really care much for McCann. We could get Molina at 1/4th the cost.

 

I think it's nearly impossible to overhaul the rotation to that degree right now. However, nearly every starter is drastically under-performing with the exception of Buehrle, and I find that unlikely to continue. Changing catcher and pitching coach, as well as stronger defense probably goes a long way to fixing the rotation all by itself.

 

McCann >>>>> Molina on both ends of the ball.

[Abomination]

I don't think its impossible. They just need to be more creative. Hopefully 1 of Hutch, Drabek, or Stroman can win a job in spring so maybe we have some internal improvement as well. Hopefully Dickey can make the adjustments he wants to.

 

I would rather spend the money on Choo then McCann. Choo is a much better player on both sides of the ball. We just need to find someone who can catch and throw the ball to play catcher.

 

Choo simply isn't happening. Between Boras and the kind of year he's putting up, he'll probably get something like 8/150. That's the kind of contract we need to avoid, and Choo isn't the kind of player that will likely age overly well.

[GD]

Choo is a much better player on both sides of the ball.

 

Nitpicking, McCann is a much better defensive player than Choo.

[GD]

Choo in RF is fantastic and his arm plays much better. So I don't agree with you there. I never viewed McCann has a great defensive catcher. I'm confuse why I'm hearing this now. Hes always been good but nothing special.

 

He has some of the best framing numbers in the game. He's outstanding.

 

I agree that Choo is a better target completely, though.

[GD]

I certainly wouldn't mind McCann at all. He just wouldn't be my top target. I would love to have Jose Molina as much cheaper option. I will take a better look at McCann right now. I just don't see a scenario in which he leaves Atlanta for Toronto unless we grossly overpay. Which isn't in our best interest.

 

ATL's not keeping him, I don't think. Betancourt, Gattis and Laird. They're deep at C and he'll want a good amount, they'll probably just take the draft pick.

 

I like the idea of Molina + Choo too, though.

[Abomination]

Why wouldn't he age well? His biggest strength is his ability to see pitches. I think a player like that could play well into his 30's. I wouldn't be afraid of contract like that all. I would much rather pay him that salary then most players in baseball. He is easily the most underrated player in the game. Should be in the conversation of the top players in the game.

 

Obviously he shouldn't be playing center, but even in right he's probably only average defensively right now (maybe a small tick above), and that's going to decline as he ages. On the hitting side, he's not a big power guy, so as his bat slows the power he has will likely disappear which will decimate his OPS. His eye will still make him a decent player, but not at the money he'll command. That's just my opinion. He could re-invent himself or buck those expections, you never know, you just can't count on it happening.

 

I never viewed McCann has a great defensive catcher. I'm confuse why I'm hearing this now. Hes always been good but nothing special.

 

I believe according to the 2013 pitch framing study, McCann has saved the most runs of any catcher between 2008 and 2013. Further, he's been rated as a positive defender in every year since 2008. He's 6th in WAR for catchers this year in spite of missing part of the year and only having 2/3 of the games of other guys on the list. He's 4th in WAR and 3rd I believe in defense among all catchers since 2010 behind only Wieters and Yadier.

[DH12]

get used to seeing the jay miss the playoffs for many years to come. Not every team can be in first place so may as well be the only non american team to be in the cellar in the east. Seems almost justified that way. Maybe we can branch off like the CFL and have a major league light league in Canada. Add some teams from each province. That way the jays would be able to compete. To go up against these big spending american teams it's just no going to happen.

[GD]

None of Gattis, Bethancourt, Laird are very good though lol. Atlanta won't have the money to re-sign McCann so they'll be looking for someone just like us. I'd support trying to sign Pierzynski or Ruiz. Pierzynski's supposed to be an ******* but who cares, if anything our clubhouse needs someone to get in players' faces.

 

Ruiz or Molina for me. I think Molina's the best option out there for cost, tbh. It'll allow us to focus on effectively adding wins in other areas with a decent amount of left over dough.