GDT(1/3): Toronto Blue Jays @ Chicago White Sox - Dickey vs. Axelrod - 8:10 PM ET

[Tuco]

He did fight two players before and that may have contributed to his firing so he's hands off this time. All the more reason not to bring him back for a second time.

 

Exactly.

He's the more soft and cuddly Gibby this time around.

 

But hes not to blame much as I'm starting to think AA is the real problem.

[jays_fever]

Greg Plit for manager! Seriously some of you guys are so delusional

[Deadpool]

He did fight two players before and that may have contributed to his firing so he's hands off this time. All the more reason not to bring him back for a second time.

 

He's a metric f***tonne better than Cito, and NO I do NOT want Ozzie f***ing Guillen as the manager for this team.

[ElNik2013]

He's obviously not all that bright or he'd see that he ONLY gets away with it because he has a leash from this team for some f***ing retarded reason, and when he finally gets run out of this town on a rail he'll never actually stick with another team. Hopefully Thole starting on back to back days was SOMETHING, but he still pinch hit and had two TERRIBLE at bats (swinging at 2 of the 4 pitches he saw, neither of them being good pitches to hit).

 

I don't know whose decision it is to keep running him out there or batting him above 8th in the lineup (seriously, at this point his bat is as bad, or worse than Boni, Izzy and Kawasaki. Kawasaki can at least work a count) but that s*** needs to change now.

 

 

Speaking of Kawasaki, I'd rather keep Kawasaki than Bonifacio/Izturis if/when Reyes comes back, but AA has already said that Kawasaki is going down.

[Deadpool]

Speaking of Kawasaki, I'd rather keep Kawasaki than Bonifacio/Izturis if/when Reyes comes back, but AA has already said that Kawasaki is going down.

 

I would too, he's better on D (using the eye-test and nothing more) and works counts really well. I would put Reyes at SS and Kawasaki at 2B sit Izturis on the bench (unless you can trade him for ANYTHING, seriously, a 3 year deal for Maicer Izturis? I still cannot get over the sheer craziness of that) and send Boni packing somewhere for anything. I think it boils down to Kawasaki having options remaining, however.

[Iluvbjs]

The culmination of all the horrible bad defensive and offensive fundamentals have to be blamed on someone. This team has had it's injuries, but the team we field seems to still fail at the basic fundamentals of the game. Bunting, fielding, manufacturing a motherf***ing run with a guy on third and less than 2 outs. The whole thing is atrocious. Even seeing Colby go up there flailing at off speed pitches when we all know that's precisely what he's going to get! How is it that he seems not to have a clue? And who the f*** is responsible for helping him with that? The same with JPA, seen him so desperately teying to pull balls and his head flying off, when all he needs to do is focus on lifting the ball to right centre to allow him to keep his head on the ball. Instead, he's not even close. He strikes out time after time in these exact same situations, like nobody has told him he needs to focus on bringing that run in by putting his focus where it belongs. Yet you see his swing in slo-mo and his head is all the way around before his f***ing bat is. So after seeing him do it repetitively, does the hitting coach not walk up to him and ask him wtf he is doing, then try to teach him what to do instead? And when he continues not to do it, isn't the idea to bring in someone who can teach him? Or are guys like Colby JP unteachable?

 

Because after going through many levels of ball, you'd think this would be ingrained in them already. Yet 60 games in, he's still pulling off in these situations and makes no effort WHATSOEVER that might tell you that he's trying to execute what the coaches should be telling him to do in these fundamental situations. This f***ing infuriates me to no end because it's f***ing worse than amateur. I'm just curious as to whether or not these two are unteachable, or if its even being taught. Because it drives me mad when I see a guy on third and this clusterf*** ass pirate trying to pull every single pitch he's thrown instead of keeping his head on the ball and allowing his bat to follow throguh and push that ball the other f***ing way where it needs to go to manufacture a run. He fails at this 19 times out of 20 and I want to f***ing slap him and his mother every time he does it.

[DH12]

The culmination of all the horrible bad defensive and offensive fundamentals have to be blamed on someone. This team has had it's injuries, but the team we field seems to still fail at the basic fundamentals of the game. Bunting, fielding, manufacturing a motherf***ing run with a guy on third and less than 2 outs. The whole thing is atrocious. Even seeing Colby go up there flailing at off speed pitches when we all know that's precisely what he's going to get! How is it that he seems not to have a clue? And who the f*** is responsible for helping him with that? The same with JPA, seen him so desperately teying to pull balls and his head flying off, when all he needs to do is focus on lifting the ball to right centre to allow him to keep his head on the ball. Instead, he's not even close. He strikes out time after time in these exact same situations, like nobody has told him he needs to focus on bringing that run in by putting his focus where it belongs. Yet you see his swing in slo-mo and his head is all the way around before his f***ing bat is. So after seeing him do it repetitively, does the hitting coach not walk up to him and ask him wtf he is doing, then try to teach him what to do instead? And when he continues not to do it, isn't the idea to bring in someone who can teach him? Or are guys like Colby JP unteachable?

 

Because after going through many levels of ball, you'd think this would be ingrained in them already. Yet 60 games in, he's still pulling off in these situations and makes no effort WHATSOEVER that might tell you that he's trying to execute what the coaches should be telling him to do in these fundamental situations. This f***ing infuriates me to no end because it's f***ing worse than amateur. I'm just curious as to whether or not these two are unteachable, or if its even being taught. Because it drives me mad when I see a guy on third and this clusterf*** ass pirate trying to pull every single pitch he's thrown instead of keeping his head on the ball and allowing his bat to follow throguh and push that ball the other f***ing way where it needs to go to manufacture a run. He fails at this 19 times out of 20 and I want to f***ing slap him and his mother every time he does it.

 

 

True they make a shockingly high number of bad fundamental in game baseball decisions beyond the errors.

[Tuco]

The culmination of all the horrible bad defensive and offensive fundamentals have to be blamed on someone. This team has had it's injuries, but the team we field seems to still fail at the basic fundamentals of the game. Bunting, fielding, manufacturing a motherf***ing run with a guy on third and less than 2 outs. The whole thing is atrocious. Even seeing Colby go up there flailing at off speed pitches when we all know that's precisely what he's going to get! How is it that he seems not to have a clue? And who the f*** is responsible for helping him with that? The same with JPA, seen him so desperately teying to pull balls and his head flying off, when all he needs to do is focus on lifting the ball to right centre to allow him to keep his head on the ball. Instead, he's not even close. He strikes out time after time in these exact same situations, like nobody has told him he needs to focus on bringing that run in by putting his focus where it belongs. Yet you see his swing in slo-mo and his head is all the way around before his f***ing bat is. So after seeing him do it repetitively, does the hitting coach not walk up to him and ask him wtf he is doing, then try to teach him what to do instead? And when he continues not to do it, isn't the idea to bring in someone who can teach him? Or are guys like Colby JP unteachable?

 

Because after going through many levels of ball, you'd think this would be ingrained in them already. Yet 60 games in, he's still pulling off in these situations and makes no effort WHATSOEVER that might tell you that he's trying to execute what the coaches should be telling him to do in these fundamental situations. This f***ing infuriates me to no end because it's f***ing worse than amateur. I'm just curious as to whether or not these two are unteachable, or if its even being taught. Because it drives me mad when I see a guy on third and this clusterf*** ass pirate trying to pull every single pitch he's thrown instead of keeping his head on the ball and allowing his bat to follow throguh and push that ball the other f***ing way where it needs to go to manufacture a run. He fails at this 19 times out of 20 and I want to f***ing slap him and his mother every time he does it.

 

Well last year me and many others blamed John Farrell but here we are with a different manager and the team is still comitting the same silly mistakes.

Thus this needs to get pinned on the GM and you have to start asking the question if he understands how to put together a team that understands fundamentals and playing the game the right way. I'm not totally suprised tho seeing hes aquired a bunch of players that other organizations really didnt want anymore. This teams seems to badly lack a certain professionalism and also has a huge stench of selfishness to go along with it.

 

I think we could really use a good everday veteran (impact player) thats established and can call out players when they get out of line. In a perfect world Bautista would be that player but its become quite clear hes really not that type of guy.

[Tuco]

I was watching the Cards/Reds game last night and John Kruk said something great.

Freese was up at bat in the 9th and I think a runner on 1st. He drove the ball the other way and this is what Kruk said.....

 

"Thats just a great AB from Freese. He wasnt trying to pull the ball and hit a 2 run homer and be the hero. Knew what his job was and did it effectively. Thats the sign of a good team"

 

When he said this I instantly thought how thats basically the opposite of the Jays. They come up in that same situation and attempt to do exactly what Kruk said you shouldnt be doing.

[DH12]

like Omar Vizquel?

[Iluvbjs]

If you guys were managing this team, how often would you honestly tolerate this? I know we're all pretty sick of JP because of his lack of proficiency in every single area....but how often would you watch him continue to pull off in situations where we need him to manufacture that run by simply doing his job. Now I know it's not automatic that a guy goes up, sac fly, boom an automatic run. But he makes no attempt whatsoever to do what needs to be done fundamentally to do that job. He'll see 4 or 5 pitches and pull off every single one of them, making no effort at all tostay on the ball longer and drive it to right field. How long do you watch that ******** before you say, "sit down **********, until as a pro, you can do what we're asking you to do to help this team win."

[DH12]

If you guys were managing this team' date=' how often would you honestly tolerate this? I know we're all pretty sick of JP because of his lack of proficiency in every single area....but how often would you watch him continue to pull off in situations where we need him to manufacture that run by simply doing his job. Now I know it's not automatic that a guy goes up, sac fly, boom an automatic run. But he makes no attempt whatsoever to do what needs to be done fundamentally to do that job. He'll see 4 or 5 pitches and pull off every single one of them, making no effort at all tostay on the ball longer and drive it to right field. How long do you watch that ******** before you say, "sit down **********, until as a pro, you can do what we're asking you to do to help this team win."[/quote']

 

 

But apparently nobody is telling him this, or if they are it's not getting through to him

[Iluvbjs]

I was watching the Cards/Reds game last night and John Kruk said something great.

Freese was up at bat in the 9th and I think a runner on 1st. He drove the ball the other way and this is what Kruk said.....

 

"Thats just a great AB from Freese. He wasnt trying to pull the ball and hit a 2 run homer. Knew what his job was and did it effectively. Thats the sign of a good team"

 

When he said this I instantly thought how thats basically the opposite of the Jays. They come up in that same situation and attempt to do exactly what Kruk said you shouldnt be doing.

 

But the bottom line is, we're dealing with pros here...so do you guys think its selfishness and a bunch of guys that aren't team players? Because I think even amateurs know that executing in these situations on a consistent basis wins games. Colby is another prime example...he looks worse swinging at off speed stuff than Kelly f***ing Johnson did for f*** sakes. But in these situations, is he being selfish by not trying to stay back and simply put the ball in play the other way? Or does he just suck balls?

[Iluvbjs]

I'd love for a stat guy to see what the numbers are for these guys, batting with a runner on third and less than 2 outs. I just don't ever remember seeing a team fail more in these situations than this team. They miss opportunities to score that make you sick because you know deep down that if they just executed simple fundamentals, they probably score a run or two a game just by executing what they should be able to execute almost automatically.

[Tuco]

But the bottom line is' date=' we're dealing with pros here...so do you guys think its selfishness and a bunch of guys that aren't team players? Because I think even amateurs know that executing in these situations on a consistent basis wins games. Colby is another prime example...he looks worse swinging at off speed stuff than Kelly f***ing Johnson did for f*** sakes. But in these situations, is he being selfish by not trying to stay back and simply put the ball in play the other way? Or does he just suck balls?[/quote']

 

I think if you allow guys to go up there and attempt to be heros they will glady do that over sacrificing themselves for the betterment of the team.....At least certain types of players.

I just think we have alot of self centered players who want to be the guy to hit the game winning 2 run bomb. I'm not sure we have enough guys that are obsessed with winning and will basically do whatever it takes to get it done.I also believe we just also have a bunch of rather dumb players (Lawrie a few weeks ago, Rasmus tonight). I just cant get over that Rasmus AB tonight and how he was totally outwitted. I mean the player should be able to think on his own and realize what the opposing team is doing in that situation. The first pitch was at his eyes and it didnt sink in that they were basically pitching around him.

[jays_fever]

pull him now before it's too late!!

 

I'd love for a stat guy to see what the numbers are for these guys' date=' batting with a runner on third and less than 2 outs. I just don't ever remember seeing a team fail more in these situations than this team. They miss opportunities to score that make you sick because you know deep down that if they just executed simple fundamentals, they probably score a run or two a game just by executing what they should be able to execute almost automatically.[/quote']

 

A stats guy would just laugh at you for looking at such a small sample to determine a teams skill level. Its probably something liow 20 abs so far this year

[Tuco]

RA Dickey

 

5-8

5.11 ERA

1.36 WHIP

 

vs

 

Freddy Garcia

 

3-3

4.47 ERA

1.17 WHIP

 

How sad is it that we gave up arguably our top 2 prospects for Dickey and he might be outperformed this season by Garcia who was picked up for nothing by BALT.

[GD]

I'd love for a stat guy to see what the numbers are for these guys' date=' batting with a runner on third and less than 2 outs. I just don't ever remember seeing a team fail more in these situations than this team. They miss opportunities to score that make you sick because you know deep down that if they just executed simple fundamentals, they probably score a run or two a game just by executing what they should be able to execute almost automatically.[/quote']

 

As jaysfever said, that's SSS, but I do know offhand that we're one of the worst teams in Clutch rating, which is just descriptive and not predictive (read: noise), so we've been pretty s*** in that this year. But, I don't think it's that we're not clutch: it's that we aren't hitting well to begin with, so logic dictates we wouldn't suddenly start performing differently in 'clutch' situations. If we're sucking, we're sucking.

[CHRIS]

How sad is it that we gave up arguably our top 2 prospects for Dickey and he might be outperformed this season by Garcia who was picked up for nothing by BALT.

 

This crossed my mind a while back when Dickey faced Garcia in a start.

 

I don't know why, but this game felt like a real kick in the teeth. The game after squandering a four-run lead against Texas; Dickey's first start after his best start of the season. Felt like it would have been a real statement to get right back in the win column.

 

I feel like it would almost be better to just be awful than all of this two-steps-forward, two-steps back stuff.

[JohnnyLonghorn]

Who could have predicted at the start of the season that Dickey/ Morrow/ Bonifacio/ Izturis/ Lawrie could all be THIS bad? And that JJ would reach mid June before getting his first win? I will cut Beuhrle some slack because he's really turned it around over the past month.

[Arkadium]

Interesting line-up tonight.

 

1. Melky Cabrera (S) LF

2. Jose Bautista ® RF

3. Edwin Encarnacion ® DH

4. Mark DeRosa ® 3B

5. Rajai Davis ® CF

6. Adam Lind (L) 1B

7. J.P. Arencibia ® C

8. Maicer Izturis (S) 2B

9. Munenori Kawasaki (L) SS

 

DeRosa 4th.................? Rajai 5th.................? The only thing I like about this line-up is JPA has been dropped down.

[GD]

Interesting line-up tonight.

 

1. Melky Cabrera (S) LF

2. Jose Bautista ® RF

3. Edwin Encarnacion ® DH

4. Mark DeRosa ® 3B

5. Rajai Davis ® CF

6. Adam Lind (L) 1B

7. J.P. Arencibia ® C

8. Maicer Izturis (S) 2B

9. Munenori Kawasaki (L) SS

 

Interesting... my ideal lineup is probably Melky, Jose, DeRosa, Edwin, Lind, Davis, Arencibia, Muni, Maicer, but doesn't make too much of a difference.

[GD]

I don't mind it against a LHP.

 

Not terrible/impactful by any means. It's cool having a manager that doesn't go by traditional BS, too.

[IronLadle]

Not one pitch was a strike