Post your idea for getting steroids out of the game

[hummus]

imo the only way is to ban the offender for life, it's the only way. it almost looks as if the MLB condones and promotes illegal steroid use, 50 games is nothing

 

how many more decades do we have to keep hearing about this stuff?

 

the last 30 years of baseball are basically a wash and you got players STILL using it because worst comes to worst... you miss less than 1/3 of a season

[TheHurl]

don't...who cares

[Arkadium]

You would care if you're one of the guys not on PEDs trying to work your way into the majors, competing against all sorts of PED cocktails.

 

I don't mind the 50 and 100 game suspension, but I think there should be a substantial fine that relates to what the players salary is... a lot of these guys are getting HUGE salaries after they put up big PED-induced numbers, so they should have to give it back.

[Nox]

Who cares?

 

Exactly.

 

It's all a gray area anyways with arbitrary lines being drawn in a ever shifting bed of sand.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Who cares?

 

Come on. I know its the edgy thing to say something like this but it's disgraced the sport.

 

And you're just begging for a bunch of stupid kids to mis-use the stuff when they're too young if the other cheek is turned.

 

How about an immediate 100 game ban and the following seaosn the player is not allowed to sign a multi year contract? That'll get their attention.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

You guys really don't care if steroids are policed or not? I'm pretty shocked to hear that actually. I understand that it's a witch hunt for specific players but still.

[Arkadium]

Come on. I know its the edgy thing to say something like this but it's disgraced the sport.

 

And you're just begging for a bunch of stupid kids to mis-use the stuff when they're too young if the other cheek is turned.

 

How about an immediate 100 game ban and the following seaosn the player is not allowed to sign a multi year contract? That'll get their attention.

 

You are my hero.

[Olerud363]

You guys really don't care if steroids are policed or not? I'm pretty shocked to hear that actually. I understand that it's a witch hunt for specific players but still.

 

Great post. It is really a stupid thing to say "who cares".

 

They either have to eliminate testing completely, make it a free for all with every one completely roided up on everything or they have to continuously work to police it better.

 

The current testing doesn't seem to be working. I mean out of the 20 biogenesis guys how many tested positive?? 3?? So at that rate there has to be an untold number of players still juicing... or atleast we can't be sure there isn't. Only a fraction of users are getting caught.

 

So more has to be done. The present system is actually unfair to Braun and A-rod. They are caught because their dealer got caught, while other players dealers haven't got caught. Or atleast we can't be sure.

 

They need to make the testing better. I don't know how. More tests?? Better tests??

[admin]

Think about this.

Before the THG scandal (the undetectable steroid), 95% of fans were clueless of steroid use.

No one thought about it, they loved the home runs, the Sosa/McGwire home run race was one of the most exciting seasons in baseball.

 

Then all the sudden the average fan is exposed to what really goes on. All the sudden they hate these home run hitters, and everyone else using

steroids. It's all over the media. I will guarantee steroid use in teen baseball players double (Probably 10x by now) after all this steroid talk started.

All this is doing is telling kids there are steroids in sports and that's the only way to make it to the big leagues.

 

You can't stop movie/software piracy, you can't stop PED in sports.

There were always be more cheaters than the ones trying to catch them, and they will always be a step up on them.

 

All you are doing is wasting money and resources trying to stop it, and putting it in the spotlight for young kids.

 

Testosterone and growth hormone have come a long way in the last 5-7 years. Almost no doctor would use this as a treatment in aging men.

Today, it's starting to be accepted and there are numerous doctors prescribing these drugs to patients, and they feel better than ever.

[Olerud363]

I really just can't bring myself to care about what these guys are taking - it just doesn't matter to me. The league will continue to police it, players will continue to cheat, and the media will continue to have material.

 

The problem is that one can never be sure what reality is.

 

Maybe the Jays are actually the only clean team. Perhaps because they play in Canada for extended periods it's harder to maintain a juicing program. I mean they'd have to find a local Toronto guy because it would be harder to get it shipped across the border.

 

So the last 20 years they've been clean, or relatively clean and that explains the relative lack of sucess.

 

Or maybe the Jays are dirty as anyone, EE and Bautista are pumped up with it all... Bad-Lind/Good-Lind, Bad-Wells/good-wells, and bad-Hill, good-Hill is all explained by the times they chose to experiment with enhancement...

 

I'm not saying either of those scenarios are remotely true, but in a game that is "partially" dirty it becomes easy to speculate on such scenarios, and hard to trust anything.

 

So it has to be either completely dirty, or completely clean... or atleast as clean as possible.

 

The problem with completely dirty is it opens it up to stuff you wouldn't put in a horse.

[Arkadium]

I'm really happy this conversation has turned into something at least a little perspicacious, it started off very naive.

[Arkadium]

Think about this.

Before the THG scandal (the undetectable steroid), 95% of fans were clueless of steroid use.

No one thought about it, they loved the home runs, the Sosa/McGwire home run race was one of the most exciting seasons in baseball.

 

Then all the sudden the average fan is exposed to what really goes on. All the sudden they hate these home run hitters, and everyone else using

steroids. It's all over the media. I will guarantee steroid use in teen baseball players double (Probably 10x by now) after all this steroid talk started.

All this is doing is telling kids there are steroids in sports and that's the only way to make it to the big leagues.

 

You can't stop movie/software piracy, you can't stop PED in sports.

There were always be more cheaters than the ones trying to catch them, and they will always be a step up on them.

 

All you are doing is wasting money and resources trying to stop it, and putting it in the spotlight for young kids.

 

Testosterone and growth hormone have come a long way in the last 5-7 years. Almost no doctor would use this as a treatment in aging men.

Today, it's starting to be accepted and there are numerous doctors prescribing these drugs to patients, and they feel better than ever.

 

With this thinking let's eliminate PED and drug testing from all mediums then... olympics, football, cycling, law enforcement.

 

Let's just let the athletes go completely ape-s***.

[Dude]

Better testing is all you can do, no point hoping for harsher penalties , especially to the degree some suggest. The suggestion of MLB trying to rid steroids out of the sport is responsible for an increase in doping among in teens is pretty ridiculous, correlation=/=causation.

[Abomination]

For one thing, they need the punishment to be different depending on the class of drug. Things like growth hormone should have a much stiffer penalty than someone accidentally taking the wrong cold medication or something.

[Wilnercibia]

Let everyone take it, level the playing field

 

Problem solved

[dineke]

The over-saturation of the topic by the media is what annoys me. The NFL and NBA probably has tons of players on steroids but the media rarely talks about it because players don't get caught.

 

Steroids have become the number one topic of discussion when people talk about baseball and it ain't good for the game.

[admin]

With this thinking let's eliminate PED and drug testing from all mediums then... olympics, football, cycling, law enforcement.

 

Let's just let the athletes go completely ape-s***.

 

What's the point of testing if there are so many ways to beat it?

Obviously it would never happen, but it's atleast a level playing field.

You had Bonds and a handful of others on an undetectable steroid for who knows how long.

 

Jose Canseco made a great point.

Him and his brother took the same steroids, trained the same, etc. His brother didn't make it pro.

They aren't magic.

 

How about you tell me what your plan is, and I'll let you know why it's dumb.

[TheHurl]

Fine then I'll change my statement. Get a system where every player can afford-ably be tested everyday and be tested for everything that you think is wrong and then get stiffer penalties. If the league isn't willing to test every player every day and put this in the next CBA, than stop pretending like you care. Until then, you don't ban because some guys bought the s***, you don't suspend because some slimeball that deals in an illegal business is paid for his statement. It's a waste of our time.

[Caper]

The real game changer in all of this is blood profiling. Not so much testing for anything specific... but there are certain parameters in the blood that should be in a natural range. Cycling is moving in that direction.

[connorp]

What's the point of testing if there are so many ways to beat it?

Obviously it would never happen, but it's atleast a level playing field.

You had Bonds and a handful of others on an undetectable steroid for who knows how long.

 

Jose Canseco made a great point.

Him and his brother took the same steroids, trained the same, etc. His brother didn't make it pro.

They aren't magic.

 

How about you tell me what your plan is, and I'll let you know why it's dumb.

 

You have to have testing to protect the brand. Steroids is a hot button topic with the public like gay marriage or something. If you take the wrong position on it as a brand, its a killer.

 

I don't know how much mlb ACTUALLY cares. I mean, I'm speculating but its not unlikely a lot of your superstars are on something. Clearly the testing process is a farce. Guys that get caught really come off as dumb. You don't see mlb doing any detective work to really expose a scandal like this. Nor do they probably allocate a chunk of their billions to be really cutting edge with their testing process. Why not hire as consultants guys like Tony B and pay them a ton of loot to stay on top of current trends with designer roids and "masking" methods.

 

They are merely reacting to someone else's investigations (or when this all started years ago, public outcry) that are going to be (have been) made public and they're essentially saving face.

[Olerud363]

Fine then I'll change my statement. Get a system where every player can afford-ably be tested everyday and be tested for everything that you think is wrong and then get stiffer penalties. If the league isn't willing to test every player every day and put this in the next CBA, than stop pretending like you care. Until then, you don't ban because some guys bought the s***, you don't suspend because some slimeball that deals in an illegal business is paid for his statement. It's a waste of our time.

 

I basically agree with you in that I said the present system is not fair to A-rod and Braun.

 

Nobody is saying test every day.

 

But apparently the 20 biogenesis guys were doing it for 2 or 3 years and two of them got caught. So does that mean that if you juice you have only a 10% chance of getting caught over 2 or 3 years??

 

Need to find a testing protocol where they can catch atleast half the people. That should be enough to deter the others.

[Olerud363]

With this thinking let's eliminate PED and drug testing from all mediums then... olympics, football, cycling, law enforcement.

 

Let's just let the athletes go completely ape-s***.

 

Exactly. In the extreme of this argument you would have guys doing everything. Look at what Bonds became. He was apparently doing every class of enhancement, roids for strength, hgh, epo for endurance, insulin (not sure why), amphetamines.

 

If you have no testing then they can go for the classics, testosterone, winstrol, hgh, amphetamines, then pot and sleeping pills to calm them down after. Add in the designer stuff and it would be quite the freak show. Imagine a Barry Bonds starting all that he did at 18... and why wouldn't you. Get to the majors quick, hit 1000 homers (if you live long enough).

[Olerud363]

You have to have testing to protect the brand. Steroids is a hot button topic with the public like gay marriage or something. If you take the wrong position on it as a brand, its a killer.

 

I don't know how much mlb ACTUALLY cares. I mean, I'm speculating but its not unlikely a lot of your superstars are on something. Clearly the testing process is a farce. Guys that get caught really come off as dumb. You don't see mlb doing any detective work to really expose a scandal like this. Nor do they probably allocate a chunk of their billions to be really cutting edge with their testing process. Why not hire as consultants guys like Tony B and pay them a ton of loot to stay on top of current trends with designer roids and "masking" methods.

 

They are merely reacting to someone else's investigations (or when this all started years ago, public outcry) that are going to be (have been) made public and they're essentially saving face.

 

I think the Dick Pound guy said it was a complete joke. I've heard that the only real way to do it is put an indepentent group like the international doping comittee in charge of the program.

 

When you get down to it, if you really want a clean sport they would do that. They don't want to. Which shows they want the impression of a testing process but not a real testing process.

[fatcowxlive]

Come on. I know its the edgy thing to say something like this but it's disgraced the sport.

 

And you're just begging for a bunch of stupid kids to mis-use the stuff when they're too young if the other cheek is turned.

 

How about an immediate 100 game ban and the following seaosn the player is not allowed to sign a multi year contract? That'll get their attention.

 

Perfect Idea. I think most players that take steroids is not to make themselves better because they want to see themselves as a superstar, but mostly for the long multiyear contract.

 

Also if the player signed a multi-year deal before he was caught, but he was using them before the deal, the contract should be voided and the team would have the option to restructure a much cheaper contract

[Nox]

So where do we draw the line?

 

Where do things like TJS with a ligament from a cadaver that gives an elbow better than natural strength come into this?

 

What about the stem cell treatment used on Big Fat Bartolo Colon? Without them I doubt he'd be in the big leagues right now. Should such treatments be illegal?

 

What about hypothetical complete shoulder transplants ~50 years in the future that both "heal" and improve baseline performance?

 

etc, etc, etc,

 

The first arbitrary line in the sand usually drawn is something along "injury recovery vs. performance recovery". Well, staying healthy is a skill. It's not all luck of the draw (especially with pitchers). Keeping them healthy is essentially equivalent to enhancing performance.

 

And what about in the future where there may be PEDs that have no side effects? What reason is there to not take these if every normal person (non baseball player) should theoretically take them to improve their day to day life?

[Olerud363]

Like I said - I just don't care. I watch the game because I like baseball. I'd rather not hear about Clemens' court date or the Biogenesis 'scandal' or ignorant debate about whether or not banned substance X was taken as a PED or unintentionally in an over-the-counter drug. I just don't give a s***.

 

OK. Fair enough. Just have to hope that the constant border crossing doesn't put our boys at a disadvantage.

 

You feel confident they have enough sources in Toronto that they aren't disadvantaged compared to teams in the states?? I'm not. But maybe I have no reason to worry about this. Maybe there is a Toronto Biogenesis chapter that I'm not aware of.. or maybe it's easy to get the stuff across. I don't know.

[Olerud363]

So where do we draw the line?

 

Where do things like TJS with a ligament from a cadaver that gives an elbow better than natural strength come into this?

 

What about the stem cell treatment used on Big Fat Bartolo Colon? Without them I doubt he'd be in the big leagues right now. Should such treatments be illegal?

 

What about hypothetical complete shoulder transplants ~50 years in the future that both "heal" and improve baseline performance?

 

etc, etc, etc,

 

The first arbitrary line in the sand usually drawn is something along "injury recovery vs. performance recovery". Well, staying healthy is a skill. It's not all luck of the draw (especially with pitchers). Keeping them healthy is essentially equivalent to enhancing performance.

 

And what about in the future where there may be PEDs that have no side effects? What reason is there to not take these if every normal person (non baseball player) should theoretically take them to improve their day to day life?

 

If and when society changes the laws then we can have that debate. But currently (most) performance enhancers are illegal. The general rule is that these guys can take whatevers legal in society.

 

There is a gray area in mediaclly controlled substances. But generally waivers are given if the player has a medical need.

[connorp]

I think the Dick Pound guy said it was a complete joke. I've heard that the only real way to do it is put an indepentent group like the international doping comittee in charge of the program.

 

Ha. You mean the same people that couldn't catch Lance Armstrong in 1000 attempts... and obviously countless others for every person they get.

[connorp]

OK. Fair enough. Just have to hope that the constant border crossing doesn't put our boys at a disadvantage.

 

You feel confident they have enough sources in Toronto that they aren't disadvantaged compared to teams in the states?? I'm not. But maybe I have no reason to worry about this. Maybe there is a Toronto Biogenesis chapter that I'm not aware of.. or maybe it's easy to get the stuff across. I don't know.

 

Well, in these cases the drugs are prescribed and completely legal. I don't know Canada's laws though on importing legit prescription meds

[eastcoastjaysfan]

What's the point of testing if there are so many ways to beat it?

Obviously it would never happen, but it's atleast a level playing field.

You had Bonds and a handful of others on an undetectable steroid for who knows how long.

 

Jose Canseco made a great point.

Him and his brother took the same steroids, trained the same, etc. His brother didn't make it pro.

They aren't magic.

 

How about you tell me what your plan is, and I'll let you know why it's dumb.

 

ADMIN keep it clean bud. This irresponsible aggression is waht made the other board go to s***!