glory

The fact that it's debatable which starter is worse, Dickey or Doubront, makes it even sadder.

Has there been any word on the rotation order after the break? I'm guessing Buehrle, Estrada, Hutchison, Dickey, and Doubront.

Trading Stroman would be insane. Even AA at his drunkest wouldn't do that (I hope).

The deal was made because Kevin Cash, once scout for the Jays turned bullpen coach for the Indians, endorsed Gomes as a catcher to the Indians GM. Obviously someone in the org knew he was a catcher, it just wasn't someone AA valued, I guess. Bautista, Edwin, and Donaldson are guys who developed with their bats late in their careers. Not the same as discarding a catcher by playing him at third and then seeing him be worth multiple wins the following season on defensive metrics alone. Gomes offense isn't even the biggest regret. It's the fact that the team so badly miscalculated his defensive value. Then you see how they handle their MLB team (with DH's playing LF, s***** framers like Navarro,, Bonehead at 2B, Reyes at short etc), and you realize that it took them way too long to see the value in defense (and it cost them $82m once they figured it out what Gomes was good at). You are letting AA off easy by saying no one could have predicted it. Bautista breaking out offensively was unforeseen. A guy the Jays were paying knew Gomes was a catcher. Totally different scenario.

Probably because the organization had him playing third base instead of catcher where he's elite. That might cloud perceptions. Blame the org, not the fans who didn't predict it. It is worth bringing up because the drafting under AA is actually pretty good, so don't give away prospects for no reason. Do what the Cardinals do (minus the hacking).

Lesser package but same philosophy. I don't mind acquiring Hamels because the rotation next season looks like a mess on paper, and Hamels would help that, but you can't keep doing the same types of moves and expect different results. When AA was hired, there was talk about building a sustainable winner through player development. Obviously that turned out to be a load of s*** given what actually happened, but that's the direction this team needs to go in, especially with ownership that will spend one season and stop spending the next.

Trade Reyes to the Padres before Preller is fired.

To me it's not about whether Norris pans out or not. He could be good, or he could be a bust. The point is to stick with a direction that involved developing your own talent rather than the alternative which we have done recently and seen fail. Who wants to see another Dickey/Marlins/Yan Gomes type of deal? Doubling down on this roster that isn't even .500 at the All star break is ridiculous. Stop the madness.

Forget the farm system, the Jays can't afford those contracts, unless the Phillies take Reyes back.

Yep. AA and Gibbons both love him, otherwise he would have been dumped for anything in the off-season. Alex not being able to adapt when he sees Navarro getting undeserved playing time is so frustrating. Just DFA him and move on. If Martin gets hurt, you're screwed regardless.

f*** you Davidi.

The last thing the Jays need is a s***** "proven closer" who will get high important innings because "veteran". Say no to Rodney.

Navarro + his salary for a handshake from the Mariners GM would be enough value coming back. Just get Fatty off this team.

I swear if Navarro is gone, I promise to be positive about this team for at least a week. I'd be giddy. Gibbons would be drinking heavily for a week to get over the grief, though.

From what I remember, Rogers was given two names, Williams and Duquette. He tampered with both of them, but only the Duquette stuff went far enough to where it was almost realistic. It's possible they may cast a wider net this time around, especially with more names potentially available.

With Dombrowski rumored to be available at the end of the season (given the Tigers window shrinking it would make sense for him to jump ship at this point), I think he'd be on the top of Rogers' list. Williams was just one of the names that Eddie was given when he 'wisely' asked a rival for help in finding a new team president.

He traded for Matt Kemp and played Wil Myers in cf. He's the one GM who probably would value Reyes.

Only the Padres GM is drunk enough to take Reyes so if you can get one of their big contracts while dropping Reyes at the same time, I'd consider it.

At least include Chapman in the deal so he's not pissing away the farm for a two month rental.

So trade Escobar for someone of comparable value, then. If AA traded Lind for Prince Fielder and absorbed the entire contract, does that absolve him of blame when the contract becomes a huge burden because Lind "had to" be traded for bad mouthing the organization? You're letting AA off easy there. When Troy Glaus wanted out of Toronto, Ricciardi got Scott Rolen back (2.6 WAR in 2009 and 4.0 in 2009). When Rolen wanted out, he got Encarnacion back (we know what happened there). That's how you should maximize return for players that "need to" be dealt. Rogers pushing for them to trade someone and then getting 10 cents on the dollar back shouldn't be justified just because ownership wanted it.

1. The Jays could have done a ton of s*** that off-season that did not involve trading prospects. The Angels were dumping Ervin Santana and Dan Haren's contracts for nothing that off-season. The Jays could have taken Santana's contract for nothing and paid him $13m in 2013 (better than trading for Dickey). Instead they were passing the f***ing hat around for donations a year later to sign him after coming off a better season rather than buying low on him the year before. They could have signed Bartolo Colon coming off his suspension. He signed for peanuts with the A's. They could have taken Haren's contract (though he was probably a poor fit for the RC). I could go on. I believe he almost traded for Jake Peavy in the exact same scenario I mentioned, but Peavy ended up re-signing with the White Sox. So clearly he had that idea but chose to go the other route, which was stupid. 2. Are you kidding me? Yan Gomes was an 8 WAR player combined the past two seasons (injured this season). He would have still been on a pre-arbitration salary if not for the Indians extending him. That amount of excess value would have been insanely valuable. The fact that AA had him parading around as a 3B in the minors when he's a top level defensive catcher/framer is a strike against AA as well for not realizing what he had. TDA could have been traded for someone better if you were afraid of his injury history. Why a 38-year old knuckleballer with no where to go but down? 3. Of course not all the pitching prospects or prospects in general were going to pan out. No one has said he had to keep all of them. But trading them for 30+ year old vets on free agent contracts when the team was coming off 73 wins made absolutely no sense at all. If you enter 2013 with all your prospects and a rotation of Santana, Colon, Alvarez, Happ, Morrow, Romero, etc, then yeah, that's probably a .500 team at best, but a .500 team with tons of flexibility and assets. 4. The gay slur was way overblown. yes, it was stupid of Escobar to do, but no one remembered that afterwards. It was a non-issue. He apologized. The team thinking that trading him made any sort of goodwill to the fan base is so naive that it's mind boggling. No one cared. Move on and take advantage of the asset.

Other than Buehrle, who has been amazing for us, how would the Jays not be in much better shape without those trades? Gomes or TDA at catcher, Syndergaard/Alvarez/DeSclafani/Nicolino as rotation options in addition to Stroman/Hutchison/Sanchez, Escobar/Hech middle infield, and so on. Now, granted, you can't assume many of the other things would have happened if the Jays didn't make those moves (Donaldson in particular), but I think the potential for a playoff team was far greater today if they stayed the course rather than the alternative. We should be the Pirates of the AL right now, or at least the Mets.

Reyes and Johnson were terrible pick ups due to contract and health for both players (JJ being an impending FA). The only parts of the deal that had any redeemable qualities were Buehrle and possibly Bonifacio if he was used in a super utility role (he was not a 2B). You don't give up that type of haul for what the Jays got back. If a homophobic slur was enough to throw away an asset like that, then f*** this damn organization. No one remembered that s*** even six months after it happened, probably sooner. Everyone knew the Padres and White Sox were going to suck this year, but people were blinded by the Jays when they did the exact same thing years ago? Come on.

The three consecutive trades he made in 2012 (Gomes, Marlins, Dickey) were franchise crippling. There's almost no chance to climb out of that unless every other move he made panned out, and while some were good, it wasn't nearly enough. He also gets negative points for thinking so little of coaching value that he hired a manager who was shocked he was even considered for the job, and kept a pitching coach on for three years while nearly every pitcher that shakes Walker's hand somehow regresses immediately. When your roster moves are not up to par and your choice of on-field management is just as bad, it's not a good combo.

AA should not be allowed to sell anyone. Let a new GM fix this roster. AA has done enough damage.